Capital Punishment: Isn't it time to stop state sponsored murder?

[Bexy]

Funny how some people will raise a hue and cry about abortion but will have no qualms with a death penalty.  Just saying.

Indeed, and the opposite is true as well. People shouting 'death penalty makes murderers of us all', but then have no problem with killing a tiny human growing inside of them. Makes no sense, killing is killing.

[phtlc]

Sorry, not a lot of sympathy for murderers and child rapists here...  shoot 'em!

Here in TEXASS we even have an "express lane" if the situation warrants it.  Commit a capital crime with multiple witnesses, and YOU GO RIGHT TO THE CHAIR.  No appeal, no years spent tying up the courts with bullshit, you're DEAD.

It's the "quick check-out" option for when you REALLY fuck up.


If you've violated the basic rules of society SO BADLY that you can't safely be returned TO society, then I don't see a lot of need to keep a rabid dog around.  I'm all for the death penalty, as long as there's sufficient proof (and not some of the shoddy work I've seen the DAs run though.)  I strongly disagree with it unless there's undeniable proof that you've committed the crime, but once it's a certainty, then HELLS YEAH, FRY THE BASTARD!  

Aah, sorry Rope, but for 100% proven pedophiles, I'm voting for the 'slow and painful check-out' option.
Hm, let's see, what would be nice for the sicko called Dutroux in my country, who abducted, raped and murdered several girls, letting two 8-year old girls starve to death in his soundproof cellar, while he was in custody on other charges. And now that sick fuck dares to complain about the food they are serving him in his solitary jail cell, where they had to put him because otherwise the non-pedo inmates would have long beaten him to death.

I was thinking about castration for starters. Not just the balls, no, the whole package...hm, what else? I'm a nice person so, not really good at coming up with torture methods.  Anybody got any good ideas? Nothing humane please, this is room 1408 after all and Grm has declared it 'hug free', so let's have a good go at it. 

Castration would be a good start. Also require that every day they are tied down bent over a desk so all the ass bandits in the prison can give them some hard brutal butt loving (no vaseline provided) on a daily basis

[GaryMN_2008]

Castration would be a good start. Also require that every day they are tied down bent over a desk so all the ass bandits in the prison can give them some hard brutal butt loving (no vaseline provided) on a daily basis


And the phrase "Cruel and Unusual" means what to you?

Why do I often see those against the Death Penalty, propose incarceration, but include rape and beatings as part of that punishment.

If you are against state sanctioned killings (murders?), then please in a rational way, explain how you can possibly justify state sanctioned rape.

And let's hope you do not simple state, "It is not state sanctioned, as it is other prisoners."

[phtlc]

Castration would be a good start. Also require that every day they are tied down bent over a desk so all the ass bandits in the prison can give them some hard brutal butt loving (no vaseline provided) on a daily basis


And the phrase "Cruel and Unusual" means what to you?

Why do I often see those against the Death Penalty, propose incarceration, but include rape and beatings as part of that punishment.

If you are against state sanctioned killings (murders?), then please in a rational way, explain how you can possibly justify state sanctioned rape.

And let's hope you do not simple state, "It is not state sanctioned, as it is other prisoners."

OK you busted me. that was more of a cathartic rant than any true intent. As I don't beleive in torture, I truly don't beleive in brutalizing inmates. I just sometimes like to vent a bit. So no, as a civilized society I also don't think we shold be subjecting people to brutality

[daddybrock32]

The FBI reported that despite increases in gun ownership , gun crimes continued to decrease in the US for the forth straight year in 2010.

Seems to be a corollary to me.

Kind of puts the lie to the position that more guns mean more crime.

Allowing guns in bars makes them like "cop bars" and those that would rob the bar and its customers do so at added peril.

[urguyscott]

If you look at the figures you find the following:  Those cold blooded killers who have been given life or less, figures show that many kill again either outside or inside the prison.  On the other hand figures show that cold blooded killers who have been excuted have not killed again.  Most people who favor saving the lives of cold blooded killers have been shown not to have experienced a family member or friend or neighbor or co worker being murdered.  It's like someone who has been robbed for the very first time.  Before they thought that it would never happen to them and that they and their family were safe.  But once it has happened they take life different, provide safty locks, tell their people to be more alert, etc.  Before, "It is only material things, why punish someone so hard?  It won't stop others from robbing. "  The answer to the death sentence is:

It may not stop others from killing, but it will stop this murder from killing again.

[phtlc]

If you look at the figures you find the following:  Those cold blooded killers who have been given life or less, figures show that many kill again either outside or inside the prison.  On the other hand figures show that cold blooded killers who have been excuted have not killed again.  Most people who favor saving the lives of cold blooded killers have been shown not to have experienced a family member or friend or neighbor or co worker being murdered.  It's like someone who has been robbed for the very first time.  Before they thought that it would never happen to them and that they and their family were safe.  But once it has happened they take life different, provide safty locks, tell their people to be more alert, etc.  Before, "It is only material things, why punish someone so hard?  It won't stop others from robbing. "  The answer to the death sentence is:

It may not stop others from killing, but it will stop this murder from killing again.

THe flaw in your argument is that you assume only two possible oucomes, those being Execution or Inevitable parole. If we can make sure that life sentences actually mean you spend the rest of your life in prison, then killers won't kill again, and the wrongfully convicted will always have a chance at being exonerated before death. Once you kill someone, there is no undoing it if you find out you got the wrong guy.

[orcusvox]

It's called the death penalty, not the death deterrent.

Killing someone ensures that they will never be free to commit crimes again.

I have no problem with state sponsored executions. Some people need to be killed in order to protect society.

If you think killing them is bad, why don't you visit a few prisons and see how these people are after serving decades in a tiny concrete  cell. That is even more cruel.

[Malsexie]

Capital Pubishment has been off the statutes in Australia for more than 40 years - catch up USA.

[phtlc]

It's called the death penalty, not the death deterrent.

Killing someone ensures that they will never be free to commit crimes again.

I have no problem with state sponsored executions. Some people need to be killed in order to protect society.

If you think killing them is bad, why don't you visit a few prisons and see how these people are after serving decades in a tiny concrete  cell. That is even more cruel.

Can we guarantee that we will never execute an innocent person?

[TPPM]

It's called the death penalty, not the death deterrent.

Killing someone ensures that they will never be free to commit crimes again.

I have no problem with state sponsored executions. Some people need to be killed in order to protect society.

If you think killing them is bad, why don't you visit a few prisons and see how these people are after serving decades in a tiny concrete  cell. That is even more cruel.

Can we guarantee that we will never execute an innocent person?

No.

If we have to have a death penalty, the burden of proof should be "to an absolute certainty."

[DrWoody]

Here is a story about a Nazi war criminal convicted in absentia and sentenced to death. The former police chief of the Slovakian city of Kosice during WW II was particularly sadistic toward women, something to do with his toilet training as a child. He had a hand in deporting of about 16,000 Jews to death camps where all or most of them were executed. Does anyone see the justification for the death penalty here?

NAZI WAR CRIMINAL LASZLO CSATARY TAKEN INTO CUSTODY IN BUDAPEST

By DRAGANA JOVANOVIC
July 18, 2012

The past may have finally caught up with a 97-year-old Nazi war criminal when Laszlo Csatary was taken into custody today in Budapest.

Csatary, who has been convicted in absentia and sentenced to death, was picked up early today, Bettina Bagoly, spokeswoman for the Budapest prosecutor, told ABC News.

The elderly former Nazi was charged with war crimes and will be taken before an investigative judge later today. The judge will determine whether Csatary is to remain in jail, but Bagoly said that it was "likely" that he would be placed under house arrest.

She said the prosecutor's office is still investigating allegations against Csatary.

In a statement issued on Monday, the prosecution said that investigating was complex because the crimes were committed long ago and in another country.

"It took place 68 years ago in the region that is under the jurisdiction of another country—which also raises several investigative and legal problems," the prosecutor's statement said.

Csatary has lived openly under his own name in Budapest in recent years and the Simon Wiesenthal Center alerted authorities earlier this week of his location. Nevertheless, when police visited his two homes in Budapest earlier this week Csatary was not there.
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Csatary, the former police chief of the Slovakian city of Kosice, then part of Hungary, was described as a "particularly sadistic" Nazi official.

"He created a camp for torturing the rich so they would confess where they have hidden the money," said Peter Feldmajer, the president of the Jewish community in Hungary.

Laszlo Karsai, Hungary's top holocaust historian whose grandmother died in Auschwitz, agreed that Csatary was "very sadistic."

"There are two testimonies of German officers in Kosice who had to stop him from torturing Jewish women. He made women dig holes in the ground with their bare hands," Karsai told ABC News.

"But what do you do with a 97-year-old man who was very, very sadistic 68 years ago?" Karsai asked.

According to the Wiesenthal Center, Csatary played a "key role" in the deportation of 300 Jews to Kamyanets-Podilsky in Ukraine where they were killed and is also helped organize the deportation of 15,700 Jews to the concentration camp in Auschwitz, Poland.

Csatary has been convicted in absentia and sentenced to death for war crimes in Czechoslovakia in 1948.

He arrived in Nova Scotia as a refugee under the false name, became a Canadian citizen in 1955 and worked as an art dealer in Montreal. In 1995 the authorities discovered his real name and revoked his citizenship. Before fleeing Canada, he admitted to Canadian investigators of his participation in the deportation of the Jews, but claimed that his role was "limited."

Last year, a Hungarian court acquitted another of the Wiesenthal Center's most-wanted, Sandor Kepiro, who was accused of helping organize the mass murder of about 3,000 civilians in the Serbian city of Novi Sad in 1942. Prosecutors appealed the verdict, but Kepiro died in the meantime.

The case comes at a sensitive time for Hungary, which has seen a rise in anti-Semitism in recent months with official attempts to it play down.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/nazi-war-criminal-laszlo-csatary-custody-budapest/story?id=16801448#.UAa8s9nvaK4

[phtlc]

The FBI reported that despite increases in gun ownership , gun crimes continued to decrease in the US for the forth straight year in 2010.

Seems to be a corollary to me.

Kind of puts the lie to the position that more guns mean more crime.

Allowing guns in bars makes them like "cop bars" and those that would rob the bar and its customers do so at added peril.

I am pro second ammendment, but gun ownership involves soem degree of personal responsibility. Drinking and carrying is as irresponsible as drinking and driving.

If you cannot leave the gun at home for a night, volunteer to be the designated driver.

[phtlc]

It's called the death penalty, not the death deterrent.

Killing someone ensures that they will never be free to commit crimes again.

I have no problem with state sponsored executions. Some people need to be killed in order to protect society.

If you think killing them is bad, why don't you visit a few prisons and see how these people are after serving decades in a tiny concrete  cell. That is even more cruel.

Can we guarantee that we will never execute an innocent person?

No.

If we have to have a death penalty, the burden of proof should be "to an absolute certainty."

If we cannot guarantee that no innocents will be executed then maybe it's time to put the death penalty in the rear view mirror. Don't get me wrong, I am not soft on violent criminals. I am more than happy to let murderers, child molesters...etc, grow old and die in cages; I just don't want the responibility of having to kill a human without knowing his guilt with 100% certainty.

[Grm]

Warren Hill was due to be put to death despite the fact that executions for prisoners with severe learning disabilities are banned.

Warren Hill, a death row prisoner in Georgia who has been diagnosed intellectually disabled, has been granted a stay of execution 90 minutes before he was scheduled to be put to death by lethal injection.

The Georgia supreme court unanimously decided to postpone the death sentence in a case that has caused an uproar nationally and around the world.

Hill was set to be executed despite the fact that the US supreme court has banned executions for "mentally retarded" criminals on grounds that they constitute cruel and unusual punishment.

The stay of execution was ordered on the basis of a dispute over the technique of the killing, not the fact that it was to be carried out in itself. The state has recently moved from a three-drug lethal injection procedure to a single fatal dose of the sedative pentobarbital.

The judges said they would now consider whether the switch in procedures amounts to a violation of Georgia's administrative procedure act that governs executions.

The ruling has spared Hill's life for now. But it leaves hanging in the air the question of whether Georgia should be allowed to execute "mentally retarded" prisoners despite the US supreme court ban.

Georgia is the only state in the country to apply a standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt" in cases of intellectual disability. That means that death row inmates have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they are "mentally retarded" if they are to avoid the death chamber – a requirement that is almost impossible to achieve.

Hill's lawyers have indicated they will continue to challenge Georgia's burden of proof on mental disability to the higher courts.

In 2002, in the case of Atkins v. Virginia, the US supreme court ruled that putting to death a person who was "mentally retarded" was a violation of the eighth amendment of the US constitution that bans cruel and unusual punishment.

"The supreme court issued a clear mandate that 'mentally retarded' prisoners should not be executed, yet Georgia has developed a loophole," said Richard Dieter, who heads the Death Penalty Information Center.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/23/warren-hill-execution-stayed-georgia

[MissBarbara]

Archbishop Chaput urges end to capital punishment


PHILADELPHIA, PA., September 11 (CNA/EWTN News) .- Ahead of the possible execution of three convicts on Pennsylvania’s death row, Archbishop Charles J. Chaput of Philadelphia has called for an end to the death penalty.

“As children of God, we're better than this, and we need to start acting like it. We need to end the death penalty now,” he said in his Sept. 10 weekly column.

He said capital punishment “simply doesn’t work” as a deterrent, but answers “violence with violence” that implicates all citizens. The death penalty does not heal or redress wounds “because only forgiveness can do that,” he said.

In August the governor signed execution warrants for four men, though a judge stayed one of the warrants. Any of the three remaining convicts could be the first to be executed in Pennsylvania in 13 years.

The archbishop said that avoiding capital punishment does not diminish support for murder victims’ families, who bear “a terrible burden of grief” and “rightly demand justice.”

However, even justly convicted murderers “retain their God-given dignity as human beings.”

“When we take a murderer's life we only add to the violence in an already violent culture, and we demean our own dignity in the process,” he said.

Archbishop Chaput cited the case of Terrance Williams, a death row inmate he said is “indisputably guilty” of the 1984 murder of Amos Norwood which Williams committed when he was 18. Williams’ lawyers contended he had been sexually abused by the man he murdered, while state attorneys have said that those claims have been rejected after judicial review.

“Terrance Williams deserves punishment,” Archbishop Chaput said. “No one disputes that. But he doesn't need to die to satisfy justice.”

Both Scripture and Catholic tradition support capital punishment “under certain limited conditions,” the archbishop said.

“But the Church has repeatedly called us to a higher road over the past five decades. We don't need to kill people to protect society or punish the guilty. And we should never be eager to take anyone's life.”

Archbishop Chaput said the death penalty cannot be justified “except in the most extreme circumstances” and should have “no place in our public life.”


http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/archbishop-chaput-urges-end-to-capital-punishment/

[phtlc]

“As children of God, we're better than this, and we need to start acting like it. We need to end the death penalty now,” he said in his Sept. 10 weekly column.

Even from an athiest point of view, strapping down a man who is no longer a threat and killing him while he lays there helpless seems a bit outdated by a few hundred years.

[Grm]

http://www.kristensboard.com/forums/index.php?topic=8463.0

[MissBarbara]

http://www.kristensboard.com/forums/index.php?topic=8463.0

Sorry about that. I thought that thread was closed (I confused it with the Guns thread).

Please move this to that more appropriate thread.

Thanks.

[MissBarbara]

Nebraska Abolishes Death Penalty as Lawmakers Override Veto

Nebraska on Wednesday became the first conservative state in more than 40 years to abolish the death penalty, with lawmakers defying their Republican governor, Pete Ricketts, a staunch supporter of capital punishment who had lobbied vigorously against banning it.

By a 30 to 19 vote that cut across party lines, the Legislature overrode the governor’s veto on Tuesday of a bill repealing the state’s death penalty law. The measure garnered just enough votes to overcome the veto.

Full story:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/28/us/nebraska-abolishes-death-penalty.html?emc=edit_na_20150527&nlid=2503576