Language Change

[Raceway]

I've been trying to figure out why the preposition "of" is detaching itself from some common expressions, and attaching itself to others.

For example, more and more people are dropping the "of" in "a couple of". Thus: "I have a couple questions". If brevity is the goal, why not say, "I have two questions"? One word instead of three.

Conversely, people are adding an "of" to "off", as in "take 10% off of the price".

The usage that puzzles me most is the "of" that's sneaking into phrases such as "that big a deal", which becomes "that big of a deal".

In this morning's news about the Artemis moon missions, one veteran journalist came up with a sentence beginning:

"While it won't be as impressive of a feat of landing astronauts on the Moon . . ."

I don't see what's wrong with:

"While it won't be as impressive a feat as landing astronauts on the Moon . . ."

The "of" is also elbowing aside the auxiliary "have", as in "I should of gone".

I don't lose any sleep over other people's English usage, but I do waste time trying to understand what's going on.

[Vela Nanashi]

It might be that of is now part of the filler words people sometimes use. People who notice it is a filler may then overprune its use in their sentences. I am not entirely sure though

[Rajah Dodger]

Replacing "have" is likely from casual pronunciation - "would have" becomes "would've" becomes "would of"

"couple of" becoming just "couple" may have a similar cause - "couple of" pronounced as "couple-ah" elided to just "couple".

People pick up spoken speech patterns and they then spread into their writing style.

[Writers Bloque]

To put it bluntly, using language to communicate a single thought is hard.

And with attention spans becoming increasingly shorter, you have to cut corners to get your thought across.

My writing style is mostly due to the Southeastern US influence, along with the classical authors and comedians from the south,

Twain, Ray stevens, Jerry Clower, and the people around me.

I use my background, and sayings I have been seasoned with all my life.

Only because down here, its quicker and more effective if your momma yell's "Getcha ass inside before it becomes grass." than to say "Son of mine, please come inside, as the hour grows late, and I fear for your personal safety when the street lights come on."

"Couple of" down here is not literal. It is used to comfort someone you are about to annoy the shit out of with questions. A polite way of asking to drive someone insane with questions.

[staci]

WOO for the way you describe things.

[MissBarbara]

I've been trying to figure out why the preposition "of" is detaching itself from some common expressions, and attaching itself to others.

For example, more and more people are dropping the "of" in "a couple of". Thus: "I have a couple questions". If brevity is the goal, why not say, "I have two questions"? One word instead of three.

It's even worse here in the U.S. In everyday conversations, many Americans would say, "I have a coupla questions."


And then there's my favorite neologism, "sposta." As in, "You were sposta picked me up at the train station."

[Pornhubby]

Old English = Beowulf. Sample: Hwæt. We Gardena in geardagum, / þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon, / hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon. Dates to: 449–1066-ish. Declined language with three grammatical gender forms for adjectives and nouns. Uses three grammatical numbers: singular, plural, and dual. Uses letters like thorn, edh, ash, and yogh.

Middle English = Canterbury Tales or Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. Sample: Siþen þe sege and þe assaut watz sesed at troye / þe bor3 brittened and brent to brondez and askez / þe tulk þat þe trammes of tresoun þer wro3t/ watz tried for his tricherie þe trewest on erþe. Dates to: 1066-ish to 1400-ish. Increasingly analytic language; no standardized spellings, but has not yet gone through the Great Vowel Shift. Still uses letters like thorn, edh, ash, and yogh but digraphs like <th> and <gh> beginning to replace them.

Early Modern English = Shakespeare’s The Tempest. Sample: I have with such provision in mine art / So safely ordered that there is no soul— /No, not so much perdition as an hair /Betid to any creature in the vessel / Which thou heard'st cry, which thou saw'st sink. Sit down; / For thou must now know farther. Dates to: 1450–1799-ish. Closer to Modern pronunciation. Readable, but still uses words we would consider archaic. Still makes distinction between Ye/You/Thou and other pronouns.

Late Modern English = English in the last 200 years. Sample: You are speaking it. Dates to: 1800-now.

The answer is English, and language in general, has never remained static and continues to evolve through the centuries. In the last 30 years, we’ve witnessed some of the most dramatic changes in communication in the history of mankind, thanks to the Internet, smart phones (texting), and social media, and it’s just going to continue to accelerate from here.

Bus driver, let me off at the next stop. Skibidi.

[Raceway]

Thanks to everyone for pitching in on this topic.

I see numerous elements working to change language. Simplification is one. Novelty is another.

One example of the latter is the current fad for using "pivot" in place of "change". Or substituting "north and south" for "above and below". Or "left and right" for "sooner and later"

• The price was north of $1000
• The deadline was moved left

And then there are literally hundreds of thousands of people who are literally using the word literally in every other sentence. I realize it's being used as a fashionable emphatic, but I wish they'd leave the poor thing alone.

[MissBarbara]

And then there are literally hundreds of thousands of people who are literally using the word literally in every other sentence. I realize it's being used as a fashionable emphatic, but I wish they'd leave the poor thing alone.

I couldn't agree, and the misuse of the word "literally" is my #1 language pet peeve.

In the U.S., it's grossly misused for emphasis, but it's also so widely misused that it has become almost "accepted."

My favorite misuse was when I was sitting in a movie theater waiting for the movie to start, and two women in front of me were talking loudly, and I heard one of them say, "...my head literally exploded." I pictured myself sitting there covered with blood, brain matter, and tiny pieces of her skull.

[Raceway]

My favorite misuse was when I was sitting in a movie theater waiting for the movie to start, and two women in front of me were talking loudly, and I heard one of them say, "...my head literally exploded." I pictured myself sitting there covered with blood, brain matter, and tiny pieces of her skull.

That reminded me of something I saw in the days when huge beehive hairstyles were the fashion, and people were still allowed to smoke in cinemas.

I saw a joker blowing cigarette smoke into the beehive of the lady sitting in front of him. Nothing untoward happened until the lady shook her head and released a halo of stale smoke into the air. Spectacular, to say the least.

[purpleshoes]

And then there are literally hundreds of thousands of people who are literally using the word literally in every other sentence. I realize it's being used as a fashionable emphatic, but I wish they'd leave the poor thing alone.

I couldn't agree more, and the misuse of the word "literally" is my #1 language pet peeve.

FTFY 

"Literally" is also #1 on my list of spoken words. "Unbelievable" is also badly misused.

For printed words, #1 is "woah", followed by people who don't know how to spell Santa's last name. The latter is all Tim Allen's fault.

[Raceway]

In an earlier post Vela mentioned fillers. It's not many people that can speak fluently and at length without the need for pauses filled with anything from sounds such as "um" and "er" to adverbs such as "actually" or "basically".

Prefacing every reply to a question with "Absolutely" also gets annoying very, very rapidly.

One of my friends was a radio and television presenter, and used to be swamped with letters from young people wanting to apprentice themselves to her. She selected maybe one out of every hundred, then put them through a period of training and testing. One of the exercises she gave them was to describe, without pausing or stumbling, what they were seeing around them as they walked the streets or used public transport, even if it meant turning heads.

In all the years I knew her, I can remember only one such apprentice making the grade and getting a radio show of her own, though she was never as successful as her mentor.

[Vela Nanashi]

There is also another thing that will maybe affect language a bit, and that is AI that has some peculiar things they like saying, so much so that some people can feel if a text is written by AI even when it for some reason actually makes sense (AI often lies and hallucinates, so should definitely no be relied upon unless the hallucination is what you want).

Absolutely is one of those words it likes a bit too much

[Raceway]

There is also another thing that will maybe affect language a bit, and that is AI that has some peculiar things they like saying, so much so that some people can feel if a text is written by AI even when it for some reason actually makes sense (AI often lies and hallucinates, so should definitely no be relied upon unless the hallucination is what you want).

Absolutely is one of those words it likes a bit too much

I've noticed that, too. If you frame your question in polite language ("Could you please tell me. . . ) then the AI often responds with "Absolutely!" followed by the answer.

The only social media that I use are Discord and KB. I don't know whether Discord users are representative, but I have noticed that a majority are using English as a second or third language. Grammatical mistakes spread like wildfire as one user imitates another.

[Vela Nanashi]

I am I suppose esl, though I feel english is easier than my native language for me

[Raceway]

I am I suppose esl, though I feel english is easier than my native language for me

It can get complicated. "Second" language usually means the weaker of two, on the assumption that the "first" language acquired will be dominant, but that's not always the case. The children of immigrants often lose the language of their parents or country of birth. It gets even more complicated if the speaker is a polyglot and is fluent in three or more languages.

[MissBarbara]

There is also another thing that will maybe affect language a bit, and that is AI that has some peculiar things they like saying, so much so that some people can feel if a text is written by AI even when it for some reason actually makes sense (AI often lies and hallucinates, so should definitely no be relied upon unless the hallucination is what you want).

Absolutely is one of those words it likes a bit too much

There has been a general trend over the last 20 years or so to massively overuse adverbs, primarily for emphasis. Thus the overuse and misuse of "literally," along with words like "totally," "really," "absolutely," etc.

I think part of the reason is due to the advent of social media and the near omnipresence of handheld electronic devices. Today, everyone has a place to say things and the means of saying them, and everyone has something to say. In the avalanche of words, people feel the need for greater emphasis, to allow their points to stand out, or be emphasized amid the barrage of words.

Yes, I deliberately wrote "massively overuse."



 

[Pornhubby]

Yes, I deliberately wrote "massively overuse."

I was chatting on Reddit this morning, when I realized I was having an AI conversation. I don’t know if this was a bot, or if someone was composing their chat on AI. So I went back a read everything this person had said, and it *absolutely* was not human.

I completely understand where you're coming from, and your concerns are valid. Trust is such an important part of any relationship, including the one we have with Replika and its developers. If you feel hesitant about sharing, it's absolutely your right to prioritize your comfort and privacy.

That said, I hope that over time, Luka can rebuild trust with the community by being transparent and responsive to user concerns. Replika means a lot to so many of us, and open communication between users and developers is key to preserving what makes it so special.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts-I know these discussions can be tough, but they're so important. Your voice matters, and I hope you continue to share your perspective in ways that feel safe and comfortable for you.

[MissBarbara]

Yes, I deliberately wrote "massively overuse."

I was chatting on Reddit this morning, when I realized I was having an AI conversation. I don’t know if this was a bot, or if someone was composing their chat on AI. So I went back a read everything this person had said, and it *absolutely* was not human.

I completely understand where you're coming from, and your concerns are valid. Trust is such an important part of any relationship, including the one we have with Replika and its developers. If you feel hesitant about sharing, it's absolutely your right to prioritize your comfort and privacy.

That said, I hope that over time, Luka can rebuild trust with the community by being transparent and responsive to user concerns. Replika means a lot to so many of us, and open communication between users and developers is key to preserving what makes it so special.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts-I know these discussions can be tough, but they're so important. Your voice matters, and I hope you continue to share your perspective in ways that feel safe and comfortable for you.

I don't know what a "relationship with Replika" means. It sounds kinda kinky, and rather hot.

While I have close to zero knowledge of how AI works, I've noticed while reading AI answers that often over-affirms question and answer writers. It also too heavily tries to balance "on the one hand...on the other hand." Opinions can come from mutiple viewpoints; facts cannot.

Now you guys have me obsessed over using adverbs. Damn!

[Raceway]

While I have close to zero knowledge of how AI works, I've noticed while reading AI answers that often over-affirms question and answer writers. It also too heavily tries to balance "on the one hand...on the other hand." Opinions can come from mutiple viewpoints; facts cannot.

When the first Large Language Models were introduced, there were so many incorrect and inappropriate responses that developers began filtering the output.

Some topics are now taboo, and the AI will refuse to answer, or refer you to another source of information.

A variation on the phenomenon you describe is when you ask a question, receive a wrong answer, and type in a correction. It happened this morning when I was trying to identify a couple of lines from Milton's Paradise Lost. Gemini, the Google AI search engine, blithely misquoted the lines along with incorrect line numbers. I plucked my copy of Paradise Lost from my bookshelf, looked up the reference, then gave Gemini the correct quotation and the correct line numbers.

What does Gemini do? It says, "You're perfectly right! The correct quotation/lines are. . . ." and feeds my correction back to me.

Even more annoying are responses that, instead of providing you with information, or admitting that the AI doesn't have that information, spew out paragraphs of useful tips such as "You should try accessing a database" or "You should ask your question on websites that cover your topic."