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Offline staci

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on: May 24, 2022, 11:34:53 PM
15 shot and killed at an elementary school in Ulvade Texas. 14 of them are children. So sad
« Last Edit: May 25, 2022, 02:31:12 AM by staci »

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Reply #1 on: May 25, 2022, 02:53:18 AM
very sad agreed. it's something though, this makes the news but the daily shootings in the big cities just seem to be.. business as usual.



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Reply #2 on: May 25, 2022, 03:25:03 AM

Sickening.   The Oxford (MI) shooting still seems so fresh in our home.  The girls school is in the same sports conference.
The elementary kids can't fight back. They were little babies. 

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Reply #3 on: May 25, 2022, 09:50:53 AM
It's tragic.  I live in one of the most dangerous countries in the world - I understand the need for guns. I just wonder how many shootings it will take for the US to prioritise children above guns?



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Reply #4 on: May 25, 2022, 01:07:39 PM
It's tragic.  I live in one of the most dangerous countries in the world - I understand the need for guns. I just wonder how many shootings it will take for the US to prioritize children above guns?

actually.. we fall in at #36 danger wise. (https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-dangerous-countries) why is it that guns get targeted here in these situations. the one that occupies the president seat blamed the lack of laws and the gun lobbies for the deaths but the biggest cities with the strictest laws have the highest gun crime. the only thing the restrictions do is prevent law abiding people from owning one to protect themselves and their families. the deaths in the big cities seem to not matter and seem to have become just a thing that happens and doesn't even make the news. We shouldn't have to get a permit in every state to travel the country.
does a car get blamed for a death in a DUI? or a cigarette get blamed for a family consumed in a house fire?



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Reply #5 on: May 25, 2022, 01:44:56 PM
It's tragic.  I live in one of the most dangerous countries in the world - I understand the need for guns. I just wonder how many shootings it will take for the US to prioritize children above guns?

actually.. we fall in at #36 danger wise. (https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-dangerous-countries) why is it that guns get targeted here in these situations. the one that occupies the president seat blamed the lack of laws and the gun lobbies for the deaths but the biggest cities with the strictest laws have the highest gun crime. the only thing the restrictions do is prevent law abiding people from owning one to protect themselves and their families. the deaths in the big cities seem to not matter and seem to have become just a thing that happens and doesn't even make the news. We shouldn't have to get a permit in every state to travel the country.
does a car get blamed for a death in a DUI? or a cigarette get blamed for a family consumed in a house fire?


South Africa is just below the US in 37th place.  We're third worldwide for mass shooting deaths behind Mexico. We've had 6 this year. America has had 288.

I'm all for guns for self-defense. Get your shotgun or pistol.  If you need a rifle capable of shooting 1200 rounds a minute with a 100 round magazine to defend yourself,
a) you're a really shit shot and shouldn't own a gun,
b) there's so many people that's trying to kill you, that you probably deserve it.

Now, the argument of defending against an oppressive government. What the fuck is someone going to accomplish against a drone firing missiles at your ass,  when the pilot is 3000 miles away sitting in front of a screen scratching his balls?



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Reply #6 on: May 25, 2022, 06:13:23 PM
Something I found a while ago, written by a Canadian. Since I'm from Europe and never lived in Canada or the USA I can't really say, how accurate his views are, but it was still an interesting read.

Quote
Why does the USA have mass killings in a seemingly scheduled basis, and Canada has only had a few in the past fifty years? Both countries have gun ownership.

Imagine a large city of about 3 million people, located at the top end of one of the Great Lakes. It is closely surrounded by other large population centres. More than a century ago, its downtown suffered a “great fire”. It is a major centre for communications, television, and film production. It is a hub for air, rail, truck, and laker transportation. It has major league baseball, football, soccer, and basketball teams, and an “original-6” hockey team. It has a building that at one time was the tallest in the world. It is too hot in summer, and too cold in winter. It has a beautiful waterfront on the lake.

That city is Toronto:



It is also Chicago:



They are very similar cities in many ways.

But in one way they are very different.

In 2016, there were 74 homicides in one, and 781 in the other. That’s more than ten times the rate, and hardly insignificant.

Guess which one is in Canada, and which one in the US?

The obvious answer is that it has to do with gun control, but that really isn’t it. Any Canadian can obtain a gun if they really want one, whether legally or not. Yes, it would be more difficult to do in Canada, and yes, it would take longer, but really there is nothing preventing it.

For the most part, I think it has a lot to do with people’s attitude and relationship with government and authority.

Canadians have faith that in general the system will do the right thing, will be fair, and will protect them. Yes, we all hate politicians, and yes our governments make some really stupid decisions, and yes corruption, brutality, racism, sexism, etc. do exist; but overall things work well, we trust the system, and the system tries to be worthy of that trust. We see the government as something that holds us all together.

Americans are more individualistic. They value freedom above safety. They are mistrustful of authority. The (in)famous Second Amendment was created so that individual states could have their own militias (armies), not in order to war against each other, but to protect them from the Federal government’s army. The Federal government spies on its citizens, and the citizens see the government as a burden on their lives. They see government as corrupt and self-serving. This attitude extends to everyday life too, and people feel they must protect themselves, either individually or as part of some group of similarly minded people. Many small communities trust their local gang more than they trust the police from the larger area they live in.

So at the lowest level, Canadians welcome government authority and protection, and see criminals as an unusual and undesirable thing. But Americans resent government authority and prefer to protect themselves. They isolate themselves into small groups for protection rather than relying on a much larger society. And those groups are distrustful of not only the government, but of each other. They overgeneralize and use stereotypes, turning situations and relationships into “us” versus “them” at all levels. Criminal gangs aren’t all that different from other groups in society, they are simply willing to go to further extremes.

In the American environment it seems far more natural to take power into one’s own hands, whether to defend oneself or to attack someone else for what they did or what they represent.

It is far more likely that someone will become so paranoid, or so distrustful, or so full of hatred and frustration that they would turn to mass killing as a way of venting their anger.

The availability of guns might make it slightly easier, but that is hardly the cause of the problem, only another symptom of it.

These different views of society aren’t recent; they are embedded in the constitutions, and it accurately portrays the different societies. The US Declaration of Independence promises “Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness". Almost all other former British colonies have a constitution that promises “Peace, Order, and Good Government”.

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Reply #7 on: May 25, 2022, 06:35:41 PM
We have a lot of narcissists in this country, people who act like entitled five year olds because they think they're too important to ever be told what to do.



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Reply #8 on: May 25, 2022, 07:05:25 PM
Something I found a while ago, written by a Canadian. Since I'm from Europe and never lived in Canada or the USA I can't really say, how accurate his views are, but it was still an interesting read.

Quote
It is far more likely that someone will become so paranoid, or so distrustful, or so full of hatred and frustration that they would turn to mass killing as a way of venting their anger.
That line really speaks volumes…
Keep an animal muzzled and chained for so long,
And upon releasing, they are bound to go wildly savage.



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Reply #9 on: May 25, 2022, 11:05:41 PM

Word Salad of GQP Talking Points


I'm curious if you'd be willing to parrot this back to the parents who had to have their DNA swabbed so their dead children could be confirmed since the corpses were unrecognizable, or the child that now for the rest of their life has to live with the fact they witnessed their friend get executed in the nose.


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Offline staci

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Reply #10 on: May 26, 2022, 05:41:19 AM
Happens more often than we are aware. A high school student of Richardson High close by was showing off his new pistol and AR today. Police pulled him out of class s found the weapons  in his car
« Last Edit: May 26, 2022, 03:33:30 PM by staci »

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Reply #11 on: May 26, 2022, 03:52:37 PM

does a car get blamed for a death in a DUI?


No.

However, everything related to owning and driving a car is very highly regulated by the government.

And virtually no one has a problem with that.





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Reply #12 on: May 31, 2022, 11:54:56 PM
Something I found a while ago, written by a Canadian. Since I'm from Europe and never lived in Canada or the USA I can't really say, how accurate his views are, but it was still an interesting read.

Quote
Why does the USA have mass killings in a seemingly scheduled basis, and Canada has only had a few in the past fifty years? Both countries have gun ownership.

Imagine a large city of about 3 million people, located at the top end of one of the Great Lakes. It is closely surrounded by other large population centres. More than a century ago, its downtown suffered a “great fire”. It is a major centre for communications, television, and film production. It is a hub for air, rail, truck, and laker transportation. It has major league baseball, football, soccer, and basketball teams, and an “original-6” hockey team. It has a building that at one time was the tallest in the world. It is too hot in summer, and too cold in winter. It has a beautiful waterfront on the lake.

That city is Toronto:



It is also Chicago:



They are very similar cities in many ways.

But in one way they are very different.

In 2016, there were 74 homicides in one, and 781 in the other. That’s more than ten times the rate, and hardly insignificant.

Guess which one is in Canada, and which one in the US?

The obvious answer is that it has to do with gun control, but that really isn’t it. Any Canadian can obtain a gun if they really want one, whether legally or not. Yes, it would be more difficult to do in Canada, and yes, it would take longer, but really there is nothing preventing it.

For the most part, I think it has a lot to do with people’s attitude and relationship with government and authority.

Canadians have faith that in general the system will do the right thing, will be fair, and will protect them. Yes, we all hate politicians, and yes our governments make some really stupid decisions, and yes corruption, brutality, racism, sexism, etc. do exist; but overall things work well, we trust the system, and the system tries to be worthy of that trust. We see the government as something that holds us all together.

Americans are more individualistic. They value freedom above safety. They are mistrustful of authority. The (in)famous Second Amendment was created so that individual states could have their own militias (armies), not in order to war against each other, but to protect them from the Federal government’s army. The Federal government spies on its citizens, and the citizens see the government as a burden on their lives. They see government as corrupt and self-serving. This attitude extends to everyday life too, and people feel they must protect themselves, either individually or as part of some group of similarly minded people. Many small communities trust their local gang more than they trust the police from the larger area they live in.

So at the lowest level, Canadians welcome government authority and protection, and see criminals as an unusual and undesirable thing. But Americans resent government authority and prefer to protect themselves. They isolate themselves into small groups for protection rather than relying on a much larger society. And those groups are distrustful of not only the government, but of each other. They overgeneralize and use stereotypes, turning situations and relationships into “us” versus “them” at all levels. Criminal gangs aren’t all that different from other groups in society, they are simply willing to go to further extremes.

In the American environment it seems far more natural to take power into one’s own hands, whether to defend oneself or to attack someone else for what they did or what they represent.

It is far more likely that someone will become so paranoid, or so distrustful, or so full of hatred and frustration that they would turn to mass killing as a way of venting their anger.

The availability of guns might make it slightly easier, but that is hardly the cause of the problem, only another symptom of it.

These different views of society aren’t recent; they are embedded in the constitutions, and it accurately portrays the different societies. The US Declaration of Independence promises “Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness". Almost all other former British colonies have a constitution that promises “Peace, Order, and Good Government”.
If what you have written here is true, Shep, then this provides a much more disturbing light on the country as a whole, not just the gun laws. (Yeah, I just thought about it.) It seems to imply misplaced distrust, a conclusion that seems to become more solid and real when you factor in recent political activity.

As explicated in the above-quoted article, political establishments as a whole in America are treated with distrust, but when you look at the two sides, one side seems to get more than the other, and these seem to change between the "public" (i.e. media statements) and "private" (i.e. opinions of the populace) spheres; I don't think I need to state which is which in each case. Unfortunately, the public sphere seems to have greater influence, as witnessed by the recent speight of essentially bad laws, allowing people that are actively harming the people to get away with murder (so to speak), while vilifying those who try to help them.

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Offline staci

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Reply #13 on: June 02, 2022, 02:21:24 AM
Tulsa Hospital shooting many shot may be casualties. Shooter killed.

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Offline MintJulie

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Reply #14 on: June 02, 2022, 03:49:41 AM
Tulsa Hospital shooting many shot may be casualties. Shooter killed.

F'ing hell!!!

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Offline Clitical Thinking

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Reply #15 on: June 02, 2022, 03:55:05 AM
Can't wait until some dipshit suggests that we could stop hospital shootings if only we allowed patients to conceal carry in their IV bags  :facepalm:



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Reply #16 on: June 02, 2022, 04:26:28 AM

”You can be mad as a mad dog at the way things went.  You can swear and curse the fates.  But when it comes to the end, you have to let go.” — The Curious Case of Benjamin Button


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Reply #17 on: June 02, 2022, 02:05:53 PM
Statement from the American Pediatric Surgical Association Board of Governors:

As pediatric trauma surgeons, when a call goes out about an injured child, we are ready. We gather our teams and we plan, prepare and wait in our trauma bays for the victim to arrive. We have trained for this, practiced it, and, unfortunately, lived these resuscitations over and over and over in emergency rooms across the United States. When the weapon used to perpetrate harm is an assault rifle, often the victim does not even make it alive to our doors. The injury inflicted by an assault rifle is so massive and widespread the victim dies at the scene.

In the massacre that happened in Uvalde, TX, the victims were 9 and 10 year old children, averaging about 60 pounds in weight. The damage and injuries that these children sustained were so extreme and widespread that their own parents could not recognize them. DNA samples from their parents were required to identify the children.

The American Pediatric Surgical Association (APSA) calls for a new federal Assault Weapons Ban on military-style firearms. During the decade of the previous ban, public mass shootings and deaths decreased. Although these mass shootings are a small percentage of overall gun deaths each year, they have been used to perpetrate mass shootings of children and adults in public places that should be safe such as schools, grocery stores, theaters and churches. These weapons have the capacity for rapid fire and large numbers of rounds between reloads which increases their lethality and the number of victims. They have been used in many locations including Newtown, San Bernadino, Las Vegas, Sutherland Springs, Parkland, and most recently in Uvalde, each incident killing more than a dozen people.

APSA acknowledges the Second Amendment and the right to responsible gun ownership. However, assault weapons have no place in the civilian arena. Therefore, we call for a new federal Assault Weapons Ban. We support H.R.1808 / S.746, the Assault Weapons Ban of 2021. We strongly urge Congress to move forward in adopting these bills and reinstating a ban on Assault Weapons. Too many children and adults have been killed in the hands of civilians using these weapons. As pediatric surgeons, we are committed to saving lives of children to allow them to live their lifetimes.  We need the help of our legislators to remove ready access to these dangerous weapons that have been used, time and again, to commit mass murders in peaceful communities in our country.

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Reply #18 on: June 04, 2022, 08:40:58 AM
How many children do we have to lose?

NRA: All of them.



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Reply #19 on: June 04, 2022, 01:40:57 PM

”You can be mad as a mad dog at the way things went.  You can swear and curse the fates.  But when it comes to the end, you have to let go.” — The Curious Case of Benjamin Button