BLM Demonstrations, Riots, Police Brutality, Justice for George Floyd

[_priapism]

You are truly blessed to live in such an enlightened city, John.  It must warm your heart every time you are reminded of this.

[watcher1]

A young Chicago Tribune reporter wanted to know the feelings of his friends, both men and women, and of similar age, as to what their take of the rioting, looting and protesting that has been going on.  He found, to his surprise, that many support looting and rioting as owed to Blacks for their long suffering. He even tried to tell them that burning stores and looting establishments does no one any good but his friends insisted that it's a small price to pay.  Kind of scary attitude to have, I think.

[_priapism]

A young Chicago Tribune reporter wanted to know the feelings of his friends, both men and women, and of similar age, as to what their take of the rioting, looting and protesting that has been going on.  He found, to his surprise, that many support looting and rioting as owed to Blacks for their long suffering. He even tried to tell them that burning stores and looting establishments does no one any good but his friends insisted that it's a small price to pay.  Kind of scary attitude to have, I think.

[ChirpingGirl]

A young Chicago Tribune reporter wanted to know the feelings of his friends, both men and women, and of similar age, as to what their take of the rioting, looting and protesting that has been going on.  He found, to his surprise, that many support looting and rioting as owed to Blacks for their long suffering. He even tried to tell them that burning stores and looting establishments does no one any good but his friends insisted that it's a small price to pay.  Kind of scary attitude to have, I think.

Oooooooooh there's so much I'd like to say about this but I won't. 

[Jed_]

You are truly blessed to live in such an enlightened city, John.  It must warm your heart every time you are reminded of this.

What heart?

[Jed_]

What a perfect storm of events.

In the middle of a pandemic when so many have become ill,
or lost loved ones,
have lost their jobs,
are so worried financially,
have had their lives turned upside down in so many ways,
have been stuck inside enduring so much stress,
have seen political divisions like never before,
have had their views polarized,
have become enraged by all of it to the breaking point,
it didn’t take much to light the fuse,
to unleash that anger,
to be exploited by those that hate,
be it anarchists or racists,
or criminals looking to profit,
or the recently destitute desperate to get by,
and those few ‘bad apples’ as they’re called pushing and shoving,
knocking peaceful protesters to the ground,
shooting them with rubber bullets and irritating gas,
even women and the elderly,
destroying water and medical supplies,
and a leader that pours gas on the flames,
that exploits and sows ever more division when he should heal,
and threatens to use the military,
and does obtuse photo ops with the Bible,
upside down and backwards no less,
proving he not only didn’t read it, but didn’t even look at his prop before holding it up for his op,
it’s no wonder it happened.

I’m still heartened in many ways,
black leaders thrilled to point out the white people joining and even outnumbering them in the peaceful protests,
condemnation of the criminality,
police showing support, fist bumping protestors,
asking how can they help, kneeling in support,
and even joining the peaceful protests,
and the ‘bad apples’ actions being documented leading to suspensions, firings and arrest,
and former generals of this administration condemning the divisiveness,
affirming our constitution, and that agreeing Trump is a threat,
and another Republican senator having enough of him too.

And Trump’s poll numbers dropping.

Among causes I forgot to mention murder hornets and the movie Joker.  I’m only half kidding about the movie.

[joan1984]

  Good to see some discussion here, and discussion is what is needed, if all wish to fully grasp the issues, and there are some distinct issues to grasp, and to be addressed, but mostly talking among adults with 'skin in the game' will likely lead to a solution more quickly than may be anticipated.

  Milwaukee, and the State of Wisconsin, have some listening to do, while they make plans behind the scenes, as well as visibly on the Streets, to gain support of the Citizens of the State, and Citizens of the various Towns and Cities, if they are to see the issues raised today by all parties addressed in any rational way.

  Milwaukee seems to be the most 'liberal' city, if not one of the most 'liberal' in the United States, when it comes to elected politics... has been... and it shows.
The 'demands' of it's citizens, as are fronted by BlackLivesMatter and other left wing activists with similar beliefs, and goals, should not be a surprise to the city Mayor, or to elected Politicians there, or to the politicians in the StateHouse.

  Two weeks into the chaos, Nationwide, many peaceful assemblies still occur, and more are planned, spread over many States, with a Funeral upcoming, and then additional demonstrations in coming days, weeks, longer likely. With the Nation basically "closed" for productive workers in most/many places, and little to no attention being paid by those choosing to "demonstrate" as to Covid 19 "government restrictions", should be interesting to see how the health, and the spread of the deadly Virus proceeds.

  So, no push back from anyone about peaceful demonstrators who obey laws, in any State or Location to date.
-------------------
  Illegal behavior by lawbreakers who have used the respected 'demonstrations' to cause mayhem, arson, robbery, burglary, assault, and looting has been a big issue in some places, many places, having nothing to do with the Police or the Demonstrators, but with lawbreakers who attach themselves, individually and as groups, organized and less organized, and the joyful coverage as Anarchy by the TV/Cable Media, like wind to a fire, helps broadcast the opportunity for law breaking, to other like individuals, who simply plan their day around the chaos.

  Exactly how to prevent this type of illegal behavior, by any who would choose to participate, is the issue we all must address.

  Such behavior is not welcome, not legal in any sense, not a right, needs to stop for this Riot Opportunity and for every public gathering to come in future times.  Business Insurance will cease coverage, to the degree they may offer any coverage for Riot and Civil Commotion at all... and with such coverage not existing, businesses cannot operate in such localities.

  Discussion about disbanding Police, defunding Police, with wrangling of some to gain control of whatever such funding may become "available", along with groups lobbying, threatening and hoping for vast additional sums to be "given" in return for "Reform", while necessary to appease the politicians need to quiet the media gaggles who demand answers on the spot, should hopefully derail of its own weight at some point.

If the taxpayers want chaos, they will vote for it, seems to me. Maybe they have already voted for what we see today, in terms of chaos in Milwaukee, and many Urban locations. Of course, if the taxpayers do not want chaos at all, then they must vote that way as well, and bring in persons who can actually get the chaos stopped, predictably for the future, as well as deal with the local reality of the damaged Cities... State and Local Politicians bear the responsibility of course, as it is their very Cities where the problem exists.

Their Tax Paying Citizens will hopefully let all elected office holders know how they must proceed in the near term, and the foreseeable future.

[msslave]

Ex-cop Derek Chauvin made his first court appearance by video this afternoon.
He's still being held in the state's high security prison at Oak Park Heights.
At the request of the prosecutor, bail was raised from One million dollars to 1.25 million.

Prosecutor Matthew Frank argued that the “severity of the charges” and the strength of public opinion against Chauvin made him a more likely flight risk.

Next court appearance will be June 29th.

[MintJulie]

Prosecutor Matthew Frank argued that the “severity of the charges” and the strength of public opinion against Chauvin made him a more likely flight risk.

For his own safety, I think he's best to stay in jail.   In solitary confinement.

[watcher1]

When I heard that the powers to be in Minneapolis voted to disband the police department I thought to my self, could they? Then I discovered it has been done twice in modern times, once in New Jersey and once in California I think. Unionization of law enforcement agencies has made it virtually impossible to rid departments of bad police officers, thus widening the gap of trust between the police and the people they are sworn to protect.

[ChirpingGirl]

When I heard that the powers to be in Minneapolis voted to disband the police department I thought to my self, could they? Then I discovered it has been done twice in modern times, once in New Jersey and once in California I think. Unionization of law enforcement agencies has made it virtually impossible to rid departments of bad police officers, thus widening the gap of trust between the police and the people they are sworn to protect.

5 minutes after:

[Lois]

Disbanding a police force and then re-establishing it would be a way to get rid of rougue officers.  

[msslave]

There has been no vote in Minneapolis. Nine of the city council signed a statement saying they will vote to disband the  PD. That's a clear majority. My Councilperson is one of them.

Then yesterday he sent an email saying he realizes an armed police force is necessary and he doesn't support eliminating police all together. Like all elected officials he talks out of both sides of his mouth.

[watcher1]

[_priapism]

[msslave]

The Minneapolis police and fire departments comprise 15% of the city's budget. Police get 179 million dollars fire 66 million.

[MissBarbara]

For the record (and stating the obvious), the movement to de-fund police departments also includes their being re-funded. No one, except for the most extreme radical, believes that police departments should be eliminated, or that professional law enforcement shouldn't exist.

There are many precedents for this successfully occurring, in both the U.S. and elsewhere in the world.

In 2012, the city of Camden, NJ, faced a soaring homicide rate, along with a growing number of civilian complaints against police officers. Pressed by budget constraints from hiring more officers, in early 2013, the mayor and city council dissolved the Camden Police Department, and fired everyone, from top to bottom. They immediately created a new, modern Police Department from the ground up. They re-organized the salary structure, which allowed them to re-hire almost all of the old recently-fired police officers and hire many new officers as well.

As part of the re-organization, they completely changed the focus of the police department's role in the community. As one officer put it, they stopped being warriors, and they started being guardians. They strived to work with, rather than against, the community, and they involved the community in every step of the process.

And the change was dramatic. It's somewhat unfair to compare statistics from pre- and post-reorganization, since crime rates have declined across the nation during that time.

But the dramatic change can best be seen in what happened -- or, perhaps better put, what didn't happen -- in Camden over the last few weeks during the waves of protests that have swept the nation. There were large protests, but they were all peaceful, with no rioting and no looting. Police and the community worked hand in hand, and, according to one police officer, the reason Camden did not see violent protests or looting or destruction was simply because the community itself proclaimed itself intolerant of that type of activity.

While a reorganization like Camden's, with a population of about 75,000 people, could not be instantly put into place in larger cities, with millions of people, it certainly stands as a model for why the cries for de-funding police departments are by no means out of place, and they might be exactly what's needed for cities across the country.


https://www.npr.org/2020/06/08/872470135/new-police-force-from-scratch-n-j-city-proves-its-possible-to-reform-the-police

[Lois]

A Woo for you Miss B, for putting the whole idea in perspective without the "spin".

[watcher1]

MissB,

Nowhere in the article about Camden did it mention a police union. In almost all northern large cities, there are very strong police unions. Many of them have been resistant to change unless ordered by the Feds. Even then, change is very slow. I am pretty sure if, say, Chicago fired their entire police force of over 13,000 there would be chaos and the union would be in the courts and policing would be greatly diminished.

[Jed_]

It’s been clear to me the police unions are a big part of the problem in getting rid of the ‘bad apple’ officers.