It’s none of my fucking business, but

[_priapism]

My nephew is gay.  Good for him.  I have him on my Snapchat and Instagram accounts, and he posts a lot of photos, exploring his new scene.  I’ve known this for a while now, and feel nothing but supportive.

My problem is my brother, who not only insists my nephew is straight, but frequently tells me stories about all the “hot women” my nephew is dating, and what a “stud” he is.  And he has the bad habit of projecting on his kid, and attempting to live vicariously through him.

And it annoys the fuck out of me.  So that is the purpose of my post.  I just smile and nod in agreement.  We are getting together over the holidays, so I’m a little triggered.  I’ll continue to STFU.  Painful to watch.  I think my sister-in-law knows, but no point in asking.

[IdleBoast]

Print out one or two of the more obviously "gay" images (is there one of him kissing another guy?), put them in small, discrete frames, and leave them on the mantelpiece without comment....

[Jed_]

Is it that he’s trying to hide it from you, not knowing you already know and are supportive?

Of my sister’s boys, one is straight and got married last year.  My Peruvian and I went to the wedding in Oregon.  Rather than straight, the younger one is more round these days.  I swear that kid gained 75 pounds since the wedding last year.  He’s in his early 20s, and I got no clue what he likes beyond eating and computer games.  He’s renewed his learner’s permit umpteen times, and my mom still has to be in the car with him when he drives (mom lives with them, and my sister is usually working her taking care of her sick husband).

Nephew 1 seems good, but nephew 2 I worry is a future serial killer or pedophile.

My brother’s kid is only 13 and already has to beat the girls off with a stick.  He’s a head taller than the next tallest in his classes.  My brother sent him to basketball camp this summer.

[_priapism]

Print out one or two of the more obviously "gay" images (is there one of him kissing another guy?), put them in small, discrete frames, and leave them on the mantelpiece without comment....

I love my nephew.  He’s not “out” to his parents, and he has employed a beard or two in the past, for family gatherings and high school social events.  He’s out on his own now, so he has a new life and lifestyle that his parents know nothing about.  It’s not my job to tell them, as they are his parents, not mine.  I suspect he hasn’t told my brother for the same reason I haven’t.  He’s an annoying bigot, who’s just more trouble to deal with than is worth it.

He’s a head taller than the next tallest in his classes.  My brother sent him to basketball camp this summer.

My nephew is 6’5”.  He’s a talented thespian.  He wanted to go to NYU and major in theater arts, but brother is pushing him into a school he doesn’t want to go to, and a major he isn’t interested in.

[Army of One]

I'm sorry, Toe, but you need to pull your nephew aside and suggest to him to come out to his father. I know it's his choice, but your brother needs to be shut the crowcall up!

I know it's cruel, more for the son than the father, and I'm fairly certain some of our gay members will probably dislike my suggestion, but my mother's cousin was in a similar situation, save for the being out (he realised after his mother died), even going so far as to marry, all because his mother insisted he was straight.

[_priapism]

I'm sorry, Toe, but you need to pull your nephew aside and suggest to him to come out to his father. I know it's his choice, but your brother needs to be shut the crowcall up!

I know it's cruel, more for the son than the father, and I'm fairly certain some of our gay members will probably dislike my suggestion, but my mother's cousin was in a similar situation, save for the being out (he realised after his mother died), even going so far as to marry, all because his mother insisted he was straight.

I think until my nephew comes out to me, or asks for my assistance with his father, it’s not my place.  I think if I was a young man dealing with these issues, that is the course of conduct I would demand from anyone I considered to be in my corner.  I need to respect his privacy, his orientation, and his timeline.  Just my two cents.  I’ll buy him a beer when my brother freaks out on him.  If he announces he’s getting married, I might pull him aside.  But until then...

[herschel]

Emotional support of a nephew is good. Meddling between a father and son is not good.

[MintJulie]

My problem is my brother, who not only insists my nephew is straight

He insists?  So it has been brought up before?

Nephew really needs to tell dad.   how to make him aware of that, I dunno.   Maybe get him aside and ask how his love life is, and he comes out to you.  hope   Suggest that dad would be supportive and he should just tell him

When our oldest told dad, she was a wreck.   Dan was so happy she fell in love, he didnt care if it was a boy or girl.   He was happy    As any parent should be.

You will handle it righth  I know it

hug to you

[IdleBoast]

Ah, I thought you meant your brother was in denial.

Print out one or two of the more obviously "gay" images (is there one of him kissing another guy?), put them in small, discrete frames, and leave them on the mantelpiece without comment....

I love my nephew.  He’s not “out” to his parents, and he has employed a beard or two in the past, for family gatherings and high school social events.  He’s out on his own now, so he has a new life and lifestyle that his parents know nothing about.  It’s not my job to tell them, as they are his parents, not mine.  I suspect he hasn’t told my brother for the same reason I haven’t.  He’s an annoying bigot, who’s just more trouble to deal with than is worth it.

He’s a head taller than the next tallest in his classes.  My brother sent him to basketball camp this summer.

My nephew is 6’5”.  He’s a talented thespian.  He wanted to go to NYU and major in theater arts, but brother is pushing him into a school he doesn’t want to go to, and a major he isn’t interested in.

[MissBarbara]

I'm sorry, Toe, but you need to pull your nephew aside and suggest to him to come out to his father. I know it's his choice, but your brother needs to be shut the crowcall up!

I know it's cruel, more for the son than the father, and I'm fairly certain some of our gay members will probably dislike my suggestion, but my mother's cousin was in a similar situation, save for the being out (he realised after his mother died), even going so far as to marry, all because his mother insisted he was straight.

I think until my nephew comes out to me, or asks for my assistance with his father, it’s not my place.  I think if I was a young man dealing with these issues, that is the course of conduct I would demand from anyone I considered to be in my corner.  I need to respect his privacy, his orientation, and his timeline.  Just my two cents.  I’ll buy him a beer when my brother freaks out on him.  If he announces he’s getting married, I might pull him aside.  But until then...

I think you're doing exactly the right thing here. As an uncle, you're in a great position, since if/when the time comes, you will be someone he will feel comfortable talking to, and he will look to for support.

As you clearly understand, "coming out" -- and especially coming out to yourself -- is rarely cut and dried, and it's often an emotional roller coaster. It took me several years to get get to the point where I both understood myself and felt comfortable with and confident in myself. I "came out" to my three brothers on the same day, each individually. My youngest brother, whom I've always been closest to and who is very laid back and pragmatic, responded that he'd known I was gay for years, and was waiting for me to figure it out for myself. 

It's none of your fucking business, but as an uncle who loves him and cares for him, it IS your fucking business. And I think you're handling the situation perfectly.

[_priapism]

I think you're doing exactly the right thing here. As an uncle, you're in a great position, since if/when the time comes, you will be someone he will feel comfortable talking to, and he will look to for support.

As you clearly understand, "coming out" -- and especially coming out to yourself -- is rarely cut and dried, and it's often an emotional roller coaster. It took me several years to get get to the point where I both understood myself and felt comfortable with and confident in myself. I "came out" to my three brothers on the same day, each individually. My youngest brother, whom I've always been closest to and who is very laid back and pragmatic, responded that he'd known I was gay for years, and was waiting for me to figure it out for myself.  

It's none of your fucking business, but as an uncle who loves him and cares for him, it IS your fucking business. And I think you're handling the situation perfectly.

I read your answer over coffee Barb, then immediately began to cry.  I appreciate you sharing this, and I was hoping you’d comment, because you speak from a personal experience.  It deserves so much more than a woo.

You know my problem with labels, so it frustrates me that we can’t just let my nephew be who he is.  My children’s generation are very much more comfortable with this, and that gives me hope.  I asked my son something sexual about his relationship with his girlfriend the other day; he rolled his eyes and replied, “Anna’s bi-sexual Dad, and she’s just working through some things right now.  We sleep together, but we don’t have sex.”  Delivered with all the emotion of the weather report.  I raised good kids.  Hope everyone is this way some day.

Ah, I thought you meant your brother was in denial.

He may well be in that river in Egypt.  I don’t tell other people that my children are “studs” who frequently get “hot women.”  Maybe he’s trying to reassure himself?  If you know my nephew, you’d have had that thought, because he gives off the vibe, whatever that means.  If you’d seen the photos of him dressed like the Village People and Freddy Mercury, and kissing his boyfriend, you wouldn’t have second thoughts about it.

[MissBarbara]

I think you're doing exactly the right thing here. As an uncle, you're in a great position, since if/when the time comes, you will be someone he will feel comfortable talking to, and he will look to for support.

As you clearly understand, "coming out" -- and especially coming out to yourself -- is rarely cut and dried, and it's often an emotional roller coaster. It took me several years to get get to the point where I both understood myself and felt comfortable with and confident in myself. I "came out" to my three brothers on the same day, each individually. My youngest brother, whom I've always been closest to and who is very laid back and pragmatic, responded that he'd known I was gay for years, and was waiting for me to figure it out for myself. 

It's none of your fucking business, but as an uncle who loves him and cares for him, it IS your fucking business. And I think you're handling the situation perfectly.

I read your answer over coffee Barb, then immediately began to cry.  I appreciate you sharing this, and I was hoping you’d comment, because you speak from a personal experience.  It deserves so much more than a woo.

You know my problem with labels, so it frustrates me that we can’t just let my nephew be who he is.  My children’s generation are very much more comfortable with this, and that gives me hope.  I asked my son something sexual about his relationship with his girlfriend the other day; he rolled his eyes and replied, “Anna’s bi-sexual Dad, and she’s just working through some things right now.  We sleep together, but we don’t have sex.”  Delivered with all the emotion of the weather report.  I raised good kids.  Hope everyone is this way some day.

You're right: a strong distaste for labels is another thing we share (and it's probably more important than pneumatic boobs).

In some ways, kids today have it much easier. In many places, being non-heterosexual or non-binary isn't that big of a deal. Kids "coming out" or self-identifying in a "non-traditional" way is more common, and more accepted. Taking with my teenage nephews and nieces, they know everything about these topics, and they know kids around them who are or identify in "non-traditional" ways.

However, in other ways, it presents every more of a challenge, and creates even more confusion and problems. As you put it, "we can’t just let my nephew be who he is," and as kids today are bombarded today with information on these topics, it in a very real way forces them to no "be who they are," and, much more important, figure out who they are. Being a teenager is loaded with confusion and uncertainty about oneself, and this adds whole new layers of confusion and uncertain. In a very real way, many kids feel compelled to "declare" their sex, sexual orientation, and/or gender, when in reality, they should be allowed to just be themselves, and figure things out as they go along. To our point, they're being compelled by society and peer-pressure to place labels on themselves.

For the record, my coming out -- first to myself, and then to others -- was a relatively long process. I didn't start considering if I were not straight until I was 17 or 18, and I didn't become certain that I was gay until I was 19 or 20. Before that, I don't think the thought even crossed my mind. Part of that was the time and place (the suburbs in the late 1990s), and looking back and in retrospect, there were three specific incidents earlier in my life, that had my awareness been more heightened, might have served as clear indicators. But I didn't consider their significance until my early 20s, after I knew I was gay, and, in the end, it didn't really matter.

[Jed_]

My Peruvian went with me to the doctor today and got an application so we can have the same primary.  She was a little confused at the number of options for ‘Sexual Orientation’, but no where near as confused as when she got to the multiple options for ‘Gender’.

But then she’s led a rather sheltered life and never had the education you can get from visiting sex sites.

I agree toe is handling things well, supportive and ready to be further supportive, but otherwise sitting back and waiting to see how his nephew wants to proceed.

[_priapism]

You know I think “everyone is a little gay.”  And the scale isn’t linear, it’s circular.  So the closer you get to being “straight as an arrow,” and extremely homophobic, the closer you actually get to being a gay in denial, IMHO.

I generally reject gay, straight, bisexual, pansexual labels.  Because we are all capable of most anything, given the right circumstances.  “The Heart wants what it wants -- or else it does not care.” — Emily Dickinson.

Barb pointed out we’ve come a long way.  That is undeniable.  And it is confusing, to both the actors and the observers.  So I’m happy to let people figure it out for themselves, and then let me know if they have a label preference, or no label st all.  I’m happy to call everyone a loving human being.  That’s what most of us are, a few John Wayne Gacys notwithstanding.

She was a little confused at the number of options for ‘Sexual Orientation’, but no where near as confused as when she got to the multiple options for ‘Gender’.

And it’s only going to get worse.  I’m a liberal foodie Virgo, primarily heterosexual, with a folder of dick pics on my phone called “The Meat Market.”  And I look pretty good in a dress, but not as good as msslave.

[watcher1]

 And I look pretty good in a dress, but not as good as msslave.

Never saw msslave in a dress but he does look pretty good in pink underwear. Or no underwear. 

With each new generation I am seeing less bigotry and more tolerance towards others. It gives me faith in the human race.

[psiberzerker]

That's why tolerance, and diversity are Progressive stances.  Hate, and prejudice are dated, and ignorant.

[_priapism]

 And I look pretty good in a dress, but not as good as msslave.

Never saw msslave in a dress but he does look pretty good in pink underwear. Or no underwear. 

http://www.kristensboard.com/forums/index.php?topic=15431.msg560479#msg560479

You can thank me later.

[psiberzerker]

Ultimately, it's their closet, so their call who's business it is.

[watcher1]

 And I look pretty good in a dress, but not as good as msslave.

Never saw msslave in a dress but he does look pretty good in pink underwear. Or no underwear. 

http://www.kristensboard.com/forums/index.php?topic=15431.msg560479#msg560479

You can thank me later.

Thanks, Toe. I must have been distracted by MissB's Velma pics. 

[MissBarbara]

You know I think “everyone is a little gay.”  And the scale isn’t linear, it’s circular.  So the closer you get to being “straight as an arrow,” and extremely homophobic, the closer you actually get to being a gay in denial, IMHO.

I look at it as if everyone's on a spectrum from totally straight and totally gay, and no one is on either extreme of the spectrum. So yes, everyone is a little gay -- and a lttle straight.

Barb pointed out we’ve come a long way.  That is undeniable.  And it is confusing, to both the actors and the observers.  So I’m happy to let people figure it out for themselves, and then let me know if they have a label preference, or no label st all.  I’m happy to call everyone a loving human being.  That’s what most of us are, a few John Wayne Gacys notwithstanding.

That's exactly the point: people should be encouraged -- people should remain perfectly free from any compulsion to the contrary -- to figure it out for themselves. And that's chiefly because, especially at a relatively young age, it doesn't really matter. The teenage years, and into the early 20s -- are a journey of self-discovery. And there's a troubling irony at work in many circles: The main argument is that it doesn't matter whether your gay, straight, bi, male, female, transgender, or anything else. But by placing such a huge emphasis on the fact that "it doesn't matter," they're saying that it DOES matter, and many young people feel compelled to label and compartmentalize themselves. The fact is, if it really doesn't matter, then why are you making such a big deal about it?

Fun Fact: John Wayne Gacy committed his crimes in and around my home town. Though he committed his crimes in the 1970s, before I was born, several of his victims had attended my high school (and, I think, Watcher's, too).