NO BORDER WALL

[joan1984]

  People may apply for asylum, at ports of entry, where they may be interviewed and vetted properly, and need not break any U.S. Laws in the process.

  That process is different from making Illegal Entry the alien's first US act, then claiming asylum upon being caught and detained at great cost.

  The Illegal Entry is the reason for arrest, and that the US does not jail minors in adult prison or jails, the reason for "separation" of the Illegal adults, from their Illegal progeny, or supposed progeny.

[Athos_131]

  People may apply for asylum, at ports of entry, where they may be interviewed and vetted properly, and need not break any U.S. Laws in the process.

At least you finally stopped lying about this after I called your cowardly, bigoted ass out twice when you claimed you needed an embassy.

#Resist

[psiberzerker]

The Illegal Entry is the reason for arrest, and that the US does not jail minors in adult prison or jails, the reason for "separation" of the Illegal adults, from their Illegal progeny, or supposed progeny.

So, born a crime, then?  You decide who has the right to breed, where, and when, because of an arbitrary line on a map.  To justify Internment camps for children.  American citizens.

[joan1984]

  U.S. Law is what it is, until our elected Representatives vote to change U.S. Law. The pesky "Rule Of Law", thing, remember?

'Born a crime' ?

Not following you...sorry.

The Illegal Entry is the reason for arrest, and that the US does not jail minors in adult prison or jails, the reason for "separation" of the Illegal adults, from their Illegal progeny, or supposed progeny.

So, born a crime, then?  You decide who has the right to breed, where, and when, because of an arbitrary line on a map.  To justify Internment camps for children.  American citizens.

[Athos_131]

  U.S. Law is what it is, until our elected Representatives vote to change U.S. Law. The pesky "Rule Of Law", thing, remember?

The same rule of law about compaign contributions?

#Resist

[psiberzerker]

Not following you...sorry.[/color]

You just said "Illegal Progeny"  Those children are American Citizens.  They're born here, and for being born here, they're being imprisoned.  

Born a crime.  Imprisoned for the crime of being born.  "Illegal Progeny."  It's what you said.  You understand Illegal Progeny but not "Born a crime?"

What does Progeny mean?  What does Illegal mean?  You do know what those words mean, don't you?

[joan1984]

  At child born in the U.S., having Citizenship, would not likely be found along side a border crashing alien adult, who has elected not to enter with her/his family legally at a port of entry.

  That was the discussion, in which I raised that a alien adult, who elects to break US Law by making a illegal border crossing to enter the US, commits a crime, for which she/he is arrested. Should that adult be traveling with minor children, that 'unit' must be separated, as the minor child will not be detained with adult criminals, in such an incident.

  The law could be changed, by Congress, now in the hands of Democrats in the House, who could submit a Bill making unauthorized entry across US Borders not a crime at all, not punishable by any law enforcement authority at all, and no such legislation has been proposed in the current session.

  Meanwhile, laws are enforced, as our Border Enforcement and Elected Officials are sworn to uphold the law, and uphold the U.S. Constitution.

[psiberzerker]

 At child born in the U.S., having Citizenship, would not likely be found along side a border crashing alien adult, who has elected not to enter with her/his family legally at a port of entry.

A child born in the US has citizenship.  Period, if you're born here, you're a US citizen.  Obama was born in Hawaii, it was a US state at the time, therefore he is a US Citizen.  Even if they're born from an undocumented immigrant.  A child is likely to be alongside their parent,

BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THEY BELONG.

Not in prison for being born.  People come here, and they have children.  It's part of the American Dream, that's why they're called "Dreamers."  That their children will have a better life than they did.  That's why they come here.

If you make America Great, they will come here.  If you make it illegal, they will come here illegally.  If you make it Legal, they will immigrate, and become American Citizens, just like they did before Ill Douche' ruined it for them.

[joan1984]

Exactly. I think we agree on this. Still, we do not imprison children/minors with Adult criminals, so IF a alien adult, without authorization, crosses the border, breaks the law in the process, then when the adult is incarcerated/detained for such law breaking, any minor progeny, will be separated from such adults.

 At child born in the U.S., having Citizenship, would not likely be found along side a border crashing alien adult, who has elected not to enter with her/his family legally at a port of entry.

A child born in the US has citizenship.  Period, if you're born here, you're a US citizen.  Obama was born in Hawaii, it was a US state at the time, therefore he is a US Citizen.  Even if they're born from an undocumented immigrant.  A child is likely to be alongside their parent,

BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THEY BELONG.

Not in prison for being born.  People come here, and they have children.  It's part of the American Dream, that's why they're called "Dreamers."  That their children will have a better life than they did.  That's why they come here.

If you make America Great, they will come here.  If you make it illegal, they will come here illegally.  If you make it Legal, they will immigrate, and become American Citizens, just like they did before Ill Douche' ruined it for them.

[psiberzerker]

Still, we do not imprison children/minors with Adult criminals,

No, you just advocate for children's prisons, the building of which takes money, manpower, and other resources away from your fucking wall, by the way.

Tearing apart families, and imprisoning children.  For trespassing.  Because you don't see them as People.  You see them as subhuman criminals.

Amazing what atrocities you're willing to let slide, because you think this is your country.  Trespassing is a misdemeanor.  It's not punishable by taking their children, and holding them hostage in modified dog kennels.  

It's a piece of paper.  You're arguing for children's prison, because their parents, not them, don't have the Right paperwork.  What did those children do, besides be born American Citizens?

Being American isn't a crime.

[joan1984]

Once again, like a pretzel, you find ways to 'quote' what I did not say, then disagree with your version of what was said, and expound upon your twisted quote. State your own positions, and stop misstating my positions. Thank you.

[psiberzerker]

Okay, then once again, let's hear your justification for imprisoning children who're born here.  No quotes, just come up with something better than Trespassing.  Trespassing is a reason to put up a fence, not to lock children in cages.

[joan1984]

  Children in cages was a 2014, 2015 thing, as I recall. Were there complaints at the time? I don't recall much media about such things, and have no opinion about such things, over which I have no control.

  Has anyone asked ex-President Obama about such issues, and asked for his apology, or justification? Or, has it been determined such detention was legal, an authorized, and even necessary, if US Law is/was to be enforced.

  Suitable, humane facilities need to be expanded, and require more allocation of funds by Congress, of course, and I am sure we both agree on that need.

[psiberzerker]

 Children in cages was a 2014, 2015 thing, as I recall. Were there complaints at the time? I don't recall much media about such things, and have no opinion about such things, over which I have no control.

  Has anyone asked ex-President Obama about such issues, and asked for his apology, or justification? Or, has it been determined such detention was legal, an authorized, and even necessary, if US Law is/was to be enforced.

  Suitable, humane facilities need to be expanded, and require more allocation of funds by Congress, of course, and I am sure we both agree on that need.

Okay, first of all, "I heard about" it isn't a reliable source.  Provide one.

Secondly, "Obama did it" isn't a good excuse for expanding a program of taking away children, and holding them in dog kennels.  You're against Obama, right?  Against everything he's done, and you say he's done?

Still not an excuse for locking children in cages, and "don't have any control over" it isn't either.  You're advocating for it, "Illegal is Illegal" right?  "Illegal Progeny?"

Being born American isn't a crime, and it never should be.  What do you have to say about that?  I have no control over children being molested, either.  I just don't advocate for it, because I think Shoplifting is a crime.

[joan1984]

  Sorry, I am not obligated to chase down every possible variation you can conjure up of thing I did not say... Make your own point(s), without attribution to me in any way, please, if you have a point to make.

  You are unaware about children in cages being photographed, and such pics being displayed more recently, not attributed to the time or leadership at the time they were taken? OK, you need not be aware, no big thing.

[psiberzerker]

So, no.  You don't have a good reason for children to be kept in cages for trespassing?  That was the question.  

Calling me willfully ignorant, so you don't have to back up your claims doesn't answer it either, so I'll do that for you.

There's no reason to take children away from their family, and lock them in cages.  If they were murderers, that would be a reason to take the murderers away, and put them in prison.  You have no excuse for punishing American children for their parent's crimes, because there is none.

If we're willing to commit atrocities like this, for any reason, we've gone too far.

[Elizabeth]

The children at the border are simply political pawns.
They serve only one purpose and that is the use of threat against the parents who crossed the US / Mexican border. Whether or not they will or can be returned to their parents is a completely different matter (the problem is that the US government should have never separated them. then the second problem is can or will the US government be able to reunite the children with their parents, if not what will happen to the children.....they can't be locked up their entire lives, they did not do anything wrong (except follow their parents, which any child would do anyway)).

Love,
Liz
 

[psiberzerker]

will the US government be able to reunite the children with their parents, if not what will happen to the children.....they can't be locked up their entire lives, they did not do anything wrong

There's really no talk about these children's futures.  Other than not being re-united with their families, they can't be Deported to be with them, because they're Americans.  They aren't making any effort to nationalize their parents so they can Legally immigrate, either.  That would be the simplest solution:  Legal Immigration, but that's not on the table.  The president believes he can Pardon himself, but pardoning Mexicans is apparently not an option.

So, they're probably going to be wards of the state.  Eligible for Foster Homes, and Adoption, but that system is already overloaded, understaffed, and underfunded.  Much like the Schools, Border Patrol, and Coast Guard.  The ideal solution would have been not to Orphan them in the first place, because it's a Crime against Humanity.

[psiberzerker]

"For the purpose of the present Convention, the term 'the crime of apartheid', which shall include similar policies and practices of racial segregation and discrimination as practiced in southern Africa, shall apply to the following inhumane acts committed for the purpose of establishing and maintaining domination by one racial group of persons over any other racial group of persons and systematically oppressing them:

A: Denial to a member or members of a racial group or groups of the right to life and liberty of person
   I:  By murder of members of a racial group or groups;
   II:  By the infliction upon the members of a racial group or groups of serious bodily or mental harm, by the infringement of their freedom or dignity, or by subjecting them to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment;
   III: By arbitrary arrest and illegal imprisonment of the members of a racial group or groups;

B:  Deliberate imposition on a racial group or groups of living conditions calculated to cause its or their physical destruction in whole or in part;

C:  Any legislative measures and other measures calculated to prevent a racial group or groups from participation in the political, social, economic and cultural life of the country and the deliberate creation of conditions preventing the full development of such a group or groups, in particular by denying to members of a racial group or groups basic human rights and freedoms, including the right to work, the right to form recognised trade unions, the right to education, the right to leave and to return to their country, the right to a nationality, the right to freedom of movement and residence, the right to freedom of opinion and expression, and the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association;

D:  Any measures including legislative measures, designed to divide the population along racial lines by the creation of separate reserves and ghettos for the members of a racial group or groups, the prohibition of mixed marriages among members of various racial groups, the expropriation of landed property belonging to a racial group or groups or to members thereof;

E:  Exploitation of the labour of the members of a racial group or groups, in particular by submitting them to forced labour;

F:  Persecution of organizations and persons, by depriving them of fundamental rights and freedoms, because they oppose apartheid."

~International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid, Article II

Illegal is Illegal

"Befehl ist Befehl."

[joan1984]

  Short of not enforcing US Law, when the adult criminal was arrested,the minors who were with the criminal at the time, in the wilderness along the US border, were transported to a safe location (no gang members, no weapons, edible food, drinkable water, away from the elements, etc.), and processed.

  Found, caught with an evading adult criminal, who may have claimed some familial or other association with such minor(s), legitimacy of such statements and responsibility by a suitable adult for such young persons is questioned, and needs to be assessed. Upon determination of true identity, dispersion of minors caught up in such a situation is affected.

  The actions taken are those prescribed, detailed, and practiced by authorities, and within the US Law, and/or within US Court dictates, if not legislation.

  Casual opinions of unrelated persons, US Citizen or not, are solicited by your Congressional Representative in some cases, and cannot be denied if you send your opinion in the direction of your elected Representative. Thank you.