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Offline Clitical Thinking

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Reply #260 on: April 22, 2021, 07:53:39 PM
One would think that people like Agnelli and Perez have been around the sport long enough that they would've foreseen this reaction by the fans.. perhaps they were blinded by their own narcissism.

Meanwhile, John Henry and the Glazers are investors looking to maximize their profits, and at least there the argument could be made that they didn't understand the culture of the sport well enough and/or that they were give some bad guidance by their advisors.



Offline Dirtymind

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Reply #261 on: April 22, 2021, 07:56:57 PM
I'm sorry, thats BS. If they don't understand a business they bought they shouldn't have any involvement whatsoever



Offline MissBarbara

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Reply #262 on: April 22, 2021, 10:45:59 PM

I'm sorry, thats BS. If they don't understand a business they bought they shouldn't have any involvement whatsoever


His point, which I completely agree with, is that they thoroughly understand the business, but they don't understand the culture surrounding the business, which are two very separate things. They've now had an abject lesson.

Meanwhile, while people in the U.K. love to criticize and mock Americans for a long list of things, in this instance, their criticism is spot on. Three of the six Premier League sides who were "involved" in the Super League are owned by Americans, and an American bank had offered the financing.







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Offline watcher1

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Reply #263 on: April 22, 2021, 11:52:55 PM
Remember the uproar when an American purchased ManU?  Thanks to MissB, I now know there are more American owners of EPL clubs. I wonder if the skyrocketing cost of transfer fees for players coincided with Americans buying EPL clubs?

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Offline Clitical Thinking

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Reply #264 on: April 23, 2021, 06:48:01 AM
Foreign owners in the EPL have certainly contributed to the record transfer fees, but I don't think it's necessarily specific to American owners or even to English clubs.

While Arsenal, Liverpool, and Man Utd are all owned by Americans, I believe Roman Abramovich (Russia) of Chelsea was the first foreign owner to really start splashing the cash when he bought the club in 2003. Of course, Chelsea are still among the top spenders, but Man City (Emirati owners) have currently spent more money on transfers than any other English club over the past 10  years.

Over in France, Paris Saint Germain have had Qatari owners for about ten years now. They've never been afraid to pull out their check book, and the two most expensive signings at the moment, Mbappe and Neymars, are theirs. Over in Italy, two of the three big spenders have had foreign owners, with AC Milan now being owned by an American investment firm after their Chinese owners defaulted on their debt, and Inter Milan having Chinese owners. Though before the Americans and the Chinese, AC Milan had a lot of success and spent a lot of money under Italian owner and prime minister Silvio Berlusconi.

Not all the big spending clubs have foreign owners. For example, technically Barcelona and Real Madrid are owned by the fans, who vote to elect a club president every so many years. One reason Florentino Perez is famous is that as president of Real Madrid he's never seen a transfer record he didn't like, even 20 years ago. He managed to sign Luis Figo from Barcelona when he was first elected in 2000, which was only slightly less insane than if Real Madrid had managed to buy Messi from Barcelona in his prime, and that also started the 'galacticos' era where Perez bought at least one world class player for a world class price almost every season.

Going back to Italy, the third of the three big spenders is Juventus, and they have been owned for almost 100 years now by the Agnelli family, the same ones that founded the car manufacturer Fiat.



Offline Clitical Thinking

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Reply #265 on: April 23, 2021, 07:23:17 AM

I'm sorry, thats BS. If they don't understand a business they bought they shouldn't have any involvement whatsoever


His point, which I completely agree with, is that they thoroughly understand the business, but they don't understand the culture surrounding the business, which are two very separate things. They've now had an abject lesson.

Yes, thanks for explaining it better :)

I think Liverpool under John Henry and FSG are a really good example of this.. they've been doing great on the business side of things, especially the past five years or so, with the hiring of Klopp and some smart transfers. Yet Henry/FSG sometimes don't seem to understand the culture of the sport, and the Super League wasn't the first time they failed to read the room.

Last year they wanted to use the British government's coronavirus furlough program to have the government pay 80% of the wages of Liverpool's staff. It made good business sense, but it also made for a terrible look when a successful club with billionaire owners can't seem to be bothered to support their staff 100% during a global pandemic.



Offline Dirtymind

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Reply #266 on: April 23, 2021, 11:21:42 AM
Yeah, like the Arsenal mascot who got retrenched last after 20 odd years, to save money - while handing a player a 300k contract the same week.

Someone mentioned the German model of 51% fan ownership in clubs. That should be the standard for all clubs.



Offline watcher1

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Reply #267 on: April 23, 2021, 07:57:56 PM
Foreign owners in the EPL have certainly contributed to the record transfer fees, but I don't think it's necessarily specific to American owners or even to English clubs.

While Arsenal, Liverpool, and Man Utd are all owned by Americans, I believe Roman Abramovich (Russia) of Chelsea was the first foreign owner to really start splashing the cash when he bought the club in 2003. Of course, Chelsea are still among the top spenders, but Man City (Emirati owners) have currently spent more money on transfers than any other English club over the past 10  years.

Over in France, Paris Saint Germain have had Qatari owners for about ten years now. They've never been afraid to pull out their check book, and the two most expensive signings at the moment, Mbappe and Neymars, are theirs. Over in Italy, two of the three big spenders have had foreign owners, with AC Milan now being owned by an American investment firm after their Chinese owners defaulted on their debt, and Inter Milan having Chinese owners. Though before the Americans and the Chinese, AC Milan had a lot of success and spent a lot of money under Italian owner and prime minister Silvio Berlusconi.

Not all the big spending clubs have foreign owners. For example, technically Barcelona and Real Madrid are owned by the fans, who vote to elect a club president every so many years. One reason Florentino Perez is famous is that as president of Real Madrid he's never seen a transfer record he didn't like, even 20 years ago. He managed to sign Luis Figo from Barcelona when he was first elected in 2000, which was only slightly less insane than if Real Madrid had managed to buy Messi from Barcelona in his prime, and that also started the 'galacticos' era where Perez bought at least one world class player for a world class price almost every season.

Going back to Italy, the third of the three big spenders is Juventus, and they have been owned for almost 100 years now by the Agnelli family, the same ones that founded the car manufacturer Fiat.

Thank you. I did not know any of this. Like all the other men's professional sports, salaries have skyrocketed. An average player today makes much more probably then a star did ten years ago. It's entertainment and longevity in professional sports is short. I get it. Hope one day, women professionals will be making the same as their men counterparts. WOO for the explanation.

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Offline ObiDongKenobi

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Reply #268 on: April 24, 2021, 05:20:39 PM
Yeah, like the Arsenal mascot who got retrenched last after 20 odd years, to save money - while handing a player a 300k contract the same week.

Someone mentioned the German model of 51% fan ownership in clubs. That should be the standard for all clubs.

It's a good idea, Johnny,  but how will we fund buying 49% of ManU, Liverpool and Arsenal from the Glazers, John W Henry and Stan Kroenke?  Also, more exactly the German rule is that no single shareholder should own more than 49%. In the case of the Glazers different family members each own less than 49% so they have already circumvented this mechanism.

Apparently there are a couple of German clubs that are not 51% (or more) owned by the fans for historical reasons but I don't know why this is or who they are.

Chelsea fans do have a modicum of influence via an organisation called The Chelsea Pitch Owners (CPO). Back in the day when Ken Bates was chairman (boo me if I am boring you ;D) he saved Stamford Bridge (SB) from being sold to property developers by getting the club to lend a group of supporters the money needed to buy the freehold of SB and the name Chelsea FC; this loan is interest free and the group formed the CPO as a private limited company. The CPO sell shares in the ground and the income is used to repay the loan.  The club cannot move from SB or change the name of the club unless a majority of CPO shareholders (of which I am one) agree, unfortunately they cannot dictate which competitions Chelsea plays in.  A couple of years ago, with the connivance of a bad chairman of CPO who authorised the issue of more shares than he should have, Bruce Buck tried to hoover up a share issue and take over control of the CPO.  This was narrowly defeated by some smart directors of CPO.

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Offline ObiDongKenobi

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Reply #269 on: April 24, 2021, 05:49:49 PM

Meanwhile, while people in the U.K. love to criticize and mock Americans for a long list of things...........[/b]

Surely not MissB, perish the thought.  ;D

One UK journalist has pointed out the irony that the ESL is the opposite of The American Dream, i.e. not a system that encourages anyone to become a success.

I also like the irony of the Premier League's "holier than thou" attitude, when it itself was setup by clubs breaking away from the Football League in order to maximise revenue, admittedly without the closed shop element.

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Offline Clitical Thinking

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Reply #270 on: April 24, 2021, 06:54:21 PM
Apparently there are a couple of German clubs that are not 51% (or more) owned by the fans for historical reasons but I don't know why this is or who they are.

I found an interesting article about it: https://www.bundesliga.com/en/news/Bundesliga/german-soccer-rules-50-1-fifty-plus-one-explained-466583.jsp

Bayer Leverkusen (owned by Bayer) and Wolfsburg (owned by Volkswagen) are exempt because their current owners also founded the clubs, in 1904 and 1945 respectively, but the article says that any investor who has had an interest in a club for more than 20 years can apply for an exemption.



Offline watcher1

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Reply #271 on: April 26, 2021, 03:59:07 PM
Chelsea won. Leeds played ManU to a 0-0 draw,, a very good game defensively by both sides.  Not many points separate third, fourth, fifth and six places in the EPL.

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Reply #272 on: April 28, 2021, 03:58:53 PM
Obi - Chelsea looked the better team yesterday in it's match against Real Madrid. Least they have an away game goal.

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Offline MissBarbara

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Reply #273 on: April 28, 2021, 06:02:03 PM

Obi - Chelsea looked the better team yesterday in it's match against Real Madrid. Least they have an away game goal.


I watched that match, and my impression was that Chelsea looked the better team during the first half, but not in the second half. Granted neither team scored after Benzema's equalizer in the 29th minute, but RM dominated play in the second half. Once again, Reece James played his heart out after coming in in the 66th minute, and he Rudiger, Christensen, and the ageless Thiago Silva helped preserve the draw.

The single away goal is only relatively meaningful. Unless the second leg ends in a 0-0 draw, the away goal becomes meaningless unless Chelsea wins the match outright.

Meanwhile, it was wonderful to see my boy Christian Pulisic score...





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Offline watcher1

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Reply #274 on: April 28, 2021, 08:56:05 PM

Obi - Chelsea looked the better team yesterday in it's match against Real Madrid. Least they have an away game goal.


I watched that match, and my impression was that Chelsea looked the better team during the first half, but not in the second half. Granted neither team scored after Benzema's equalizer in the 29th minute, but RM dominated play in the second half. Once again, Reece James played his heart out after coming in in the 66th minute, and he Rudiger, Christensen, and the ageless Thiago Silva helped preserve the draw.

The single away goal is only relatively meaningful. Unless the second leg ends in a 0-0 draw, the away goal becomes meaningless unless Chelsea wins the match outright.

Meanwhile, it was wonderful to see my boy Christian Pulisic score...



Yes, Real Madrid did seem to be the better team in the second half.   Good to see an American playing good in the EPL.  I was wondering how many times the announcers were going to say that he was injury prone.

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Offline Clitical Thinking

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Reply #275 on: May 06, 2021, 09:55:02 PM
Impressive work by Tuchel so far, putting Chelsea in a position to win both the Champions League and FA Cup, and a third place finish in the EPL isn't out of the question either.



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Reply #276 on: May 07, 2021, 01:40:05 PM

Sir Ramos The Rogue has been vanquished  :emot_updwn:

(MissB will understand the reference - and many thanks for the part played by her compatriot)


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Offline MissBarbara

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Reply #277 on: May 07, 2021, 02:49:23 PM

Sir Ramos The Rogue has been vanquished  :emot_updwn:

(MissB will understand the reference - and many thanks for the part played by her compatriot)


I was able to watch both legs, and Chelsea certainly earned their victory.

Sir Ramos wasn't himself. He was coming off an injury and hadn't played in two months, but the Chelsea attackers were dancing around him all afternoon. And he wasn't a presence when RMA was attacking.

My loyalty notwithstanding, Pulisic is always exciting to watch. He gives 100% every second he's on the pitch, and his assist to Mount was a thing of beauty.

I've long been a fan of Cesar Azpilicueta (and not just because his name is so fun to say out loud). He's a true field general, and it was interesting to see him play as a wing back (or whatever you call that position).





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Reply #278 on: May 07, 2021, 03:01:42 PM
ManCity seems to be the team to beat right now but an article in today's newspaper mentioned they are under a cloud of suspicion for evading rules and misleading investigators after internal documents and emails were hacked in 2018 and published by German magazine, Der Spiegel.

MissB - there are more then a few American women playing in England in the women's division of the EPL.  8)

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Offline MissBarbara

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Reply #279 on: May 07, 2021, 03:14:29 PM
.

MissB - there are more then a few American women playing in England in the women's division of the EPL


I know.

Tobin Heath and Christen Press both play for Man U, and Sam Mewis and Rose Lavelle play for Man City.





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