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Offline ObiDongKenobi

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Reply #180 on: March 05, 2021, 06:50:42 PM
Quote from: watcher1 on March 05, 2021, 04:17:10 AM
Yea of little faith. ;D.

You beat me to it.  I was also going to praise your perspicacity.  ;D
That's the best I have seen Chelsea play in quite a while.  Yet more VAR controversy, as well as the ridiculously tight offside, Kanté could well have been penalised for handball in the penalty area, yet in the Fulham v Spurs match a Fulham goal was disallowed because a more inocuous 'handball' was awarded in the build up to it!




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Offline watcher1

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Reply #181 on: March 06, 2021, 03:24:41 AM
The announcers did mention that the controversy over how hand balls are being called by the refs is the number one topic of the rules committee that is meeting next week.

As for Chelsea playing better, I think you will see more teams who are close to the top four spots playing their best between now and the end of the season.

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Offline MissBarbara

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Reply #182 on: March 06, 2021, 05:04:22 PM
Quote from: watcher1 on March 06, 2021, 03:24:41 AM

The announcers did mention that the controversy over how hand balls are being called by the refs is the number one topic of the rules committee that is meeting next week.

As for Chelsea playing better, I think you will see more teams who are close to the top four spots playing their best between now and the end of the season.



About a year ago I took a deep dive into the handball rules, and as I understand it, since the Fulham player's arm was tight against his body, it wouldn't normally be a handball:




However, the rules stipulate that even though the handball was accidental, the fact that it led directly to a goal means it was an infraction, and the ref and VAR guy made the right call according to the rules as they now stand.

The point about that match that shouldn't be missed is that the Spurs were playing against the 18th-ranked team with a powerhouse front line of Kane, Son, Bale, and Alli, and they managed only a single goal -- on an own goal.

https://www.football.london/tottenham-hotspur-fc/news/breaking-ifab-rule-change-tottenham-19973981





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Offline watcher1

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Reply #183 on: March 06, 2021, 08:47:07 PM
I think it has to do with intent. Players have their arms out for many reasons, but one main reason is for stability. For players to have their arms by their sides and be called for a handball is unusual. Unless they steered the ball towards the goal. Then I can see that being called.

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Offline MissBarbara

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Reply #184 on: March 06, 2021, 11:19:24 PM
Quote from: watcher1 on March 06, 2021, 08:47:07 PM

I think it has to do with intent. Players have their arms out for many reasons, but one main reason is for stability. For players to have their arms by their sides and be called for a handball is unusual. Unless they steered the ball towards the goal. Then I can see that being called.


From what I've read, it's a purely statutory thing. This specific offense occurs regardless of whether the he handball was intentional or purely accidental. It's the fact that the handball immediately leads to a goal. And that, according to the article above, is what the IFAB is looking to change.

Otherwise, the rules state:

it is not an offense if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm:

* Directly from the player’s own head or body (including the foot)
* Directly from the head or body (including the foot) of another player who is close
* If the hand/arm is close to the body and does not make the body unnaturally bigger
* When a player falls and the hand/arm is between the body and the ground to support the body, but not extended laterally or vertically away from the body

In other words, that Fulham player would not have been called for a handball except for the fact that the handball led directly to a goal.









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Offline watcher1

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Reply #185 on: March 07, 2021, 04:26:30 PM
Cool, MissB.  The whole hand ball issue will be studied this week when the rules committee meets. Like anything else, how these rules are applied by the ref on the field or the people running the VAR is what needs to be looked at.

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Offline watcher1

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Reply #186 on: March 07, 2021, 07:34:24 PM
ManU stopped ManCity's 21 game streak of not losing a game in today's Manchester Derby by shutting out ManCity 2 -0 at ManCity's field. ManU is still 8 points behind ManCity for first place.

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Offline ObiDongKenobi

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Reply #187 on: March 07, 2021, 08:06:38 PM
Quote from: watcher1 on March 07, 2021, 07:34:24 PM
ManU stopped ManCity's 21 game streak of not losing a game in today's Manchester Derby by shutting out ManCity 2 -0 at ManCity's field. ManU is still 8 points behind ManCity for first place.

And Liverpool lost at home again!  Klopp is the Bookies' second favourite for the next PL manager to be sacked.  Steve Bruce is odds on favourite.  Can't see the Liverpool board being that hasty though, that's Abramovich's job  ;D


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Offline ObiDongKenobi

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Reply #188 on: March 07, 2021, 08:17:05 PM
Quote from: MissBarbara on March 06, 2021, 11:19:24 PM
Quote from: watcher1 on March 06, 2021, 08:47:07 PM

I think it has to do with intent. Players have their arms out for many reasons, but one main reason is for stability. For players to have their arms by their sides and be called for a handball is unusual. Unless they steered the ball towards the goal. Then I can see that being called.


From what I've read, it's a purely statutory thing. This specific offense occurs regardless of whether the he handball was intentional or purely accidental. It's the fact that the handball immediately leads to a goal. And that, according to the article above, is what the IFAB is looking to change.

Otherwise, the rules state:

it is not an offense if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm:

* Directly from the player’s own head or body (including the foot)
* Directly from the head or body (including the foot) of another player who is close
* If the hand/arm is close to the body and does not make the body unnaturally bigger
* When a player falls and the hand/arm is between the body and the ground to support the body, but not extended laterally or vertically away from the body

In other words, that Fulham player would not have been called for a handball except for the fact that the handball led directly to a goal.



Thanks for the clarification, MissB.  Now we have a Madame Referee as well as a Madame Sheriff  ;D

The trouble with the second point above is that "closeness' is subjective, and was the reason a penalty was not given for the handball by a Burnley player against the Arse yesterday (to me, the distance was greater than some I have seen given).  No VAR was involved and then later the referee panicked and awarded a penalty and a red card against the same player when the ball hit his shoulder, this was subsequently overturned by VAR.



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Offline ObiDongKenobi

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Reply #189 on: March 07, 2021, 08:18:16 PM
Quote from: watcher1 on March 07, 2021, 04:26:30 PM
Cool, MissB.  The whole hand ball issue will be studied this week when the rules committee meets. Like anything else, how these rules are applied by the ref on the field or the people running the VAR is what needs to be looked at.

I hope they will be looking at the micro managing of offside decisions as well.

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Offline watcher1

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Reply #190 on: March 09, 2021, 04:20:32 PM
Congrats, Obi on Chelsea's 2-0 win over Everton Monday. I had the wrong time for the game. Missed it, but watched the women play, ManCity vs Everton.  Better on the eyes.  8)

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Offline ObiDongKenobi

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Reply #191 on: March 09, 2021, 07:55:56 PM
Quote from: watcher1 on March 09, 2021, 04:20:32 PM
Congrats, Obi on Chelsea's 2-0 win over Everton Monday. I had the wrong time for the game. Missed it, but watched the women play, ManCity vs Everton.  Better on the eyes.  8)

Thanks Watcher.  Yes that was a strange one that they snuck in at 6pm local time. I guess it was because it was unusual to have two games on a Monday night.


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Offline Dirtymind

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Reply #192 on: March 11, 2021, 12:26:35 PM
Pray for me. I'm a Southampton fan  ;D


Offline watcher1

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Reply #193 on: March 11, 2021, 06:40:16 PM
Quote from: Johnny on March 11, 2021, 12:26:35 PM
Pray for me. I'm a Southampton fan  ;D

A WOO to you for admitting that... ;D ;D   I have been a ManU fan for many years.  8)

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Reply #194 on: March 22, 2021, 03:27:34 PM
Cheers to MissB, our loyal Spurs fan, on their win against Aston Villa and maybe turning around their season.  8)

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Reply #195 on: March 22, 2021, 05:17:19 PM
Quote from: watcher1 on March 22, 2021, 03:27:34 PM

Cheers to MissB, our loyal Spurs fan, on their win against Aston Villa and maybe turning around their season.  8)


It was a much-needed win, and they dominated the match from start to finish. And it was comforting after losing to arch-rival Arsenal last Sunday and then getting knocked out of the Europa League on Thursday with a bad loss.

Still, we're now only 3 points behind Chelsea in 4th place (and congrats, ODK, for making it to the FA Cup Final).

I think the season will be determined by their performance in April against, consecutively, Man U, Everton, and City.




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Offline watcher1

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Reply #196 on: March 22, 2021, 07:07:35 PM
The past couple of weeks, the Big 10 channel has been showing both the men's and women's college soccer games, on Thursday and Sunday. On Sunday, the Penn State women's team dominate Michigan to pull in front of them for the top spot in their division. Penn State has two really good players who can score from anywhere.

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Reply #197 on: March 22, 2021, 07:25:51 PM
Quote from: MissBarbara on March 22, 2021, 05:17:19 PM

Still, we're now only 3 points behind Chelsea in 4th place (and congrats, ODK, for making it to the FA Cup Final).


 ;D, you are more confident than I of getting past ManC.


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Offline watcher1

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Reply #198 on: March 24, 2021, 02:53:37 AM
ManC would need to collapse for anyone to surpass them this season. The fight is for second, third or fourth place.

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Reply #199 on: March 25, 2021, 09:08:17 PM

RIP two legends from my footballing youth - Peter Lorimer (Leeds & Scotland) and Frank Worthington (Leicester & England).  Two characters as different as chalk and cheese.  Lorimer was a fantastic footballer who knew how to party while Worthington was a party animal who knew how to play football. Worthington was probably only second to George Best in womanising and drinking yet produced magic like this

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