What is Ignored Here

[IrishGirl]

There is a lot going on in the political thread, and it all tends to be one-sided.  And because of that, I think it is telling that the rhetoric so many people here support accumulated in a protest outside a journalist's house, Tucker Carlson's, with threats that he's not safe made not to him, but to his family.

I apologize in advance for trying to address the OP on point, and for utterly failing to resort to name-calling and ad hominem attacks, but are you actually saying that the protests outside Tucker Carlson's home are "our" fault, and that it was engendered by the content and tenor of "the political thread" on KB?

Irish slut, no one should have protestors outside their home or have their meal interrupted by people disagreeing with their politics.  In fact, that really annoys me because it plays into the right’s rhetoric that all the left are like that, dangerously uncivil.

The plain fact is that virtually no one on "The Left" supports the protests outside Carlson's home. The group that led the protests self-identifies as Antifa extremists, and they in no way represent the general view of those on "The Left." More to the point, a couple of opinion pieces by outlier bloggers neither represents the general sentiment on "The Left."

This is a non-controversial controversy...

No, I am saying that the rhetoric--like the thread proclaiming that everyone on the right is a Nazi, is what is encouraging this to happen.  And a rational mind would figure that since, no, not everyone on the left supports what happened or supports Antifa as a whole than the same should be said about the right.  Simply that not everyone on the right is a racist bigot Nazi fascist Russian bot.

However, people seem (even here) to be able to say that NOT EVERYONE on the left supports what happened to Tucker, and that Vox News, and the others that praised it are in the minority....

...but are unwilling or unable to make the same point about people on the right, people in the center, and increasingly people on the left that simply don't agree with them.

And it's this assumption, and this rhetoric, that creates that situation.  Mainly that the willingness to throw the "Nazi" label on everyone, to call everyone of a different view part of a "Party of Hate" that allows people like Matt Yglesias to justify the threats made to a journalists family, and justifies the people that made the threats.

After all, it's only recently that CNN has even suggested that Antifa is an issue, despite the fact that they have attacked many people, and the press itself at protests.  That's a marked change from their stance of ignoring and sometimes supporting it.

Even here, I can't complain about an entire thread painting everyone on the right as part of a Party of Hate and the KKK, without it being controversial to the point of mockery.  And that is just merely suggesting that not everyone is a White Supremacist by proxy.

And then, yes, not everyone on the left is "Dangerously uncivil"  just like not everyone on the right is in a "party of hate."

However, there are enough people that are uncivil, Clinton and Waters called for more incivility...and your go-to reaction is to down play that, while not extending the same courtesy to people with a diverse view on government.

So, I'm not saying that the people here are the problem.  I am saying that rhetoric we see in the "Party of Hate" and the "All things Donald Trump" threads (among others) that suggests that if they disagree with you, they are part of the KKK IS the problem.

[IrishGirl]

There is a lot going on in the political thread, and it all tends to be one-sided.  And because of that, I think it is telling that the rhetoric so many people here support accumulated in a protest outside a journalist's house, Tucker Carlson's, with threats that he's not safe made not to him, but to his family.

I apologize in advance for trying to address the OP on point, and for utterly failing to resort to name-calling and ad hominem attacks, but are you actually saying that the protests outside Tucker Carlson's home are "our" fault, and that it was engendered by the content and tenor of "the political thread" on KB?

Irish slut, no one should have protestors outside their home or have their meal interrupted by people disagreeing with their politics.  In fact, that really annoys me because it plays into the right’s rhetoric that all the left are like that, dangerously uncivil.

The plain fact is that virtually no one on "The Left" supports the protests outside Carlson's home. The group that led the protests self-identifies as Antifa extremists, and they in no way represent the general view of those on "The Left." More to the point, a couple of opinion pieces by outlier bloggers neither represents the general sentiment on "The Left."

This is a non-controversial controversy...

I have seen both in the news and on this forum a little bit of excuse making for Antifa.  It’s been in the context of ‘At least they’re anti-Nazis.’  This was back during the Charlottesville rally and the protests.

I haven’t really noticed any continuing ‘support’ for Antifa since then, here or in the media  I think that’s because those of us that are more left politically have realized just how truely toxic they are.  That realization was not immediate, it grew over time, it did grow rapidly though.

Unfortunately, the right does what they always do and try to paint all on the left with that extremist brush.  Even more unfortunately, they’re damn good at it.

That depends on the media you read Jed.  CNN for one of the first times of late, has actually condemned Antifa--rather than ignoring them.  So progress is being made there.

But you read Vox, and they not only support Antifa regularly, but also endorse what happened to Carlson, The Daily Beast defended them after they beat a Sanders supporter for carrying a flag, as well as the Bike Lock Basher, and the Huffpost has (until Carlson) supported Antifa, but now is slowly distancing themselves from the issue.

Meanwhile the Chicago Tribune and the Boston Herald have both condemned Antifa on multiple occasions.

And those are just the printed News I have delivered to my phone.  Cable News is a whole different story.

CNN largely ignores them--even after one of their journalists was attacked by Antifa for covering a protest.  MSNBC has endorsed them.  And Fox, of course, has always condemned them.  Meanwhile CBS on Network TV (at least in Boston) as actually covered Antifa multiple times making it the only network that has really continually addressed them.

[psiberzerker]

So, I'm not saying that the people here are the problem.  I am saying that rhetoric we see in the "Party of Hate" and the "All things Donald Trump" threads (among others) that suggests that if they disagree with you, they are part of the KKK IS the problem.

Okay, again here's where your skewed priorities show through.  You see people calling other people "Fascists" as THE problem, and casually namedrop the KKK in the same sentence.  

So, just like you didn't care if Kavanaugh did it, you cared about the women who Said he did it, regardless of if it's true or not.  The RHETORIC is what triggers you, whether they're right or not.  Whether they're actually saying what you falsely accuse them of or not.  As long as your rhetoric is taken seriously, when your Only point to make is that other people as saying stuff, that's wrong, on the internet.

Completely ignoring the fact that the Klan is out there, they are marching with flag waving Nazis, and that's a problem.

But as long as we don't talk about it?  We wouldn't want anybody called names, now.  Nazis marching the streets with the Klan, under police protection?  That's not the problem, it's "Leftists" namecalling.

That's the problem?  Your priorities are petty, and misguided.

[psiberzerker]

I'd even say that some histerical bitch, mistakenly being called a "Fascist" instead of an attention whore is a small price to pay, when you're going to feel persecuted even when we agree with you, because the whole country would rather ignore the real White Supremacists blatantly, and openly trying to take over our government.

But go ahead, and play the victim.  It's not like the KKK and Neo Nazis ever resort to anything as low as namecalling.  Or Chancelor Trump, or even Justice Innocent until Proven Guilty.

As long as everyone knows that you're being called names, that's the real problem here.  You're being ignored, because the United States are being taken over by White Supremacists, Seperatists, and Fascists.  Immigrants are being deported, and their children taken from them, but 1 Irish Immigrant feels like she's being called names, and will not be ignored.

No, you're not a Fascist, you're a common histrionic narcissist with a paranoid persecution complex.  You're not a Racist, you're a Transphobe that risked her future, fleeing school in terror that the terrible Trannies were taking over.

But we're supposed to pay attention to you, and not the Real fascists, and white supremacists.  At best, you're an intermittent distraction.  You're not even as good at holding our attention as the Moron in Chief.

[IrishGirl]

In your nonsensical ranting it seems that you are attempting to defend calling everyone on the right part of a "party of hate" and the KKK...which you claim isn't happening despite two threads devoted to it.

Is this accurate?

[psiberzerker]

Iit seems that you are attempting to defend calling everyone on the right part of a "party of hate" and the KKK.

Is this accurate?

No, let me simplify it to something your emotionally irrational mind can understand.

I care more about the real KKK, and the Nazis than I do about who's being called what names.

Sticks, and stones, literally.  Police batons, brickbats, Molotovs, pepper spray, tasers, water hoses, and riot shields.

Names will never hurt me.  I've been gang raped with bottles, and a mop handle, had my collarbone, and scapula literally broken with a tire iron, for who I am.  I've been called faggot, wannabe lesbian, nigger lover, fascist, leftist, communist, liberal, and "Cuck."

The tire iron, mop handle, and bottles hurt a fuck of a lot more.  You're not the enemy here, the real White Supremacists are.  Honestly, you're too petty to hate.  You're an intermittent distraction I can barely bring myself to pity.

[IrishGirl]

Iit seems that you are attempting to defend calling everyone on the right part of a "party of hate" and the KKK.

Is this accurate?

No, let me simplify it to something your emotionally irrational mind can understand.

I care more about the real KKK, and the Nazis that I do about who's being called what names.

Sticks, and stones, literally.  Police batons, brickbats, Molotovs, pepper spray, tasers, water hoses, and riot shields.

Names will never hurt me.  I've been gang raped with bottles, and a mop handle, had my collarbone, and scapula literally broken with a tire iron, for who I am.  I've been called faggot, nigger lover, fascist, leftist, communist, liberal, and "Cuck."

The tire iron, mop handle, and bottles hurt a fuck of a lot more.

You care more about the real KKK...but it seems like you go to the "Republicans are all Nazis" thing a lot, including in this thread, and others (including the one devoted to grouping everyone on the right under that label).

So, there seems to be a difference between your denial and what you posted last night, on this thread.

Care to explain that?

[psiberzerker]

it seems like...

Do I hear an echo?  Is that your new mantra?

[IrishGirl]

it seems like...

Do I hear an echo?  Is that your new mantra?

It's a legit question, you threw the Nazi flag on this thread, as if in defense of what Antifa did to a journalists family...and then you claim to only care about real Nazis.

Because of that, I am curious as to which stance you are presently taking.

[MissBarbara]

No, I am saying that the rhetoric--like the thread proclaiming that everyone on the right is a Nazi, is what is encouraging this to happen.  And a rational mind would figure that since, no, not everyone on the left supports what happened or supports Antifa as a whole than the same should be said about the right.  Simply that not everyone on the right is a racist bigot Nazi fascist Russian bot.

However, people seem (even here) to be able to say that NOT EVERYONE on the left supports what happened to Tucker, and that Vox News, and the others that praised it are in the minority....

...but are unwilling or unable to make the same point about people on the right, people in the center, and increasingly people on the left that simply don't agree with them.

And it's this assumption, and this rhetoric, that creates that situation.  Mainly that the willingness to throw the "Nazi" label on everyone, to call everyone of a different view part of a "Party of Hate" that allows people like Matt Yglesias to justify the threats made to a journalists family, and justifies the people that made the threats.

After all, it's only recently that CNN has even suggested that Antifa is an issue, despite the fact that they have attacked many people, and the press itself at protests.  That's a marked change from their stance of ignoring and sometimes supporting it.

Even here, I can't complain about an entire thread painting everyone on the right as part of a Party of Hate and the KKK, without it being controversial to the point of mockery.  And that is just merely suggesting that not everyone is a White Supremacist by proxy.

And then, yes, not everyone on the left is "Dangerously uncivil"  just like not everyone on the right is in a "party of hate."

However, there are enough people that are uncivil, Clinton and Waters called for more incivility...and your go-to reaction is to down play that, while not extending the same courtesy to people with a diverse view on government.

So, I'm not saying that the people here are the problem.  I am saying that rhetoric we see in the "Party of Hate" and the "All things Donald Trump" threads (among others) that suggests that if they disagree with you, they are part of the KKK IS the problem.

It's a non-controversial controversy because the rhetoric is simply (and exclusively) rhetoric.

And because the majority of people on the Left believe "that not everyone on the right is a racist bigot Nazi fascist Russian bot."

Your OP and the ensuing discussion devolved, within minutes, into the world's biggest straw-man argument, with the requisite misrepresentation of opponents' positions, name calling, ad hominem attacks, etc. And the discussion is about as interesting to read as a Facebook post by an ill-informed 14-year-old.

Despite your superior intelligence and superior education, you fail to grasp three very basic points:

1. The majority of KB members who post in the various Politics threads are on the Left.

2. This is a discussion, not a PhD dissertation. In discussions, and especially political discussions, people tend toward hyperbole and exaggeration to make a point.

3. KB is one of the most insignificant sites on the entire Internet. This relatively obscure web site in a dusty little corner of the Web has no influence on anything. Ever.

The fact that political discussions on KB have a decided left-wing bent are evidence of nothing other than the fact that the members -- and, at any given moment, there are never more than 8-10 members who participate in the political discussions -- have a decided left-wing bent. And the reasons for this phenomenon should be obvious.

Your chief complaint boils down to the fact that the rhetoric is rhetoric. I'm neither as intelligent nor as well-educated as you, but I find that fact to be aggressively unremarkable.

[Jed_]

CNN largely ignores them--even after one of their journalists was attacked by Antifa for covering a protest.  MSNBC has endorsed them.  And Fox, of course, has always condemned them.  Meanwhile CBS on Network TV (at least in Boston) as actually covered Antifa multiple times making it the only network that has really continually addressed them.

I’ll agree the media in general only just recently has seemed to acknowledge the existence of Antifa and similar groups and commented negatively on their actions.  It’s long overdue.

Actually, I’m largely in agreement with all you seem to be saying on this topic.


Psi, while I’m following the Irish slut’s logic pretty well for the moment, I got no clue what you are ranting about?

[psiberzerker]

The fact that political discussions on KB have a decided left-wing bent are evidence of nothing other than the fact that the members -- and, at any given moment, there are never more than 8-10 members who participate in the political discussions -- have a decided left-wing bent.

Okay, the subject matter has a lot to do with this, casually.  This is a sex site, and liberals tend to be more progressive when it comes to things like openly talking about sex, without judging each other for it.  So, about the only hardline Rightists on sites like KB, Literotica, and RavishU are sexually repressive, and exclusively come here to politically assassinate people they consider "Perverts" for having non-mainstream sexual proclivities.  

Meanwhile ignoring the blatantly obvious sexual proclivities of their own Right Wing Leaders.  Like Pat Robertson, the Dumpster, Justice "I like Beer," and every congressperson that gets caught cheating on his wife.

[IrishGirl]

No, I am saying that the rhetoric--like the thread proclaiming that everyone on the right is a Nazi, is what is encouraging this to happen.  And a rational mind would figure that since, no, not everyone on the left supports what happened or supports Antifa as a whole than the same should be said about the right.  Simply that not everyone on the right is a racist bigot Nazi fascist Russian bot.

However, people seem (even here) to be able to say that NOT EVERYONE on the left supports what happened to Tucker, and that Vox News, and the others that praised it are in the minority....

...but are unwilling or unable to make the same point about people on the right, people in the center, and increasingly people on the left that simply don't agree with them.

And it's this assumption, and this rhetoric, that creates that situation.  Mainly that the willingness to throw the "Nazi" label on everyone, to call everyone of a different view part of a "Party of Hate" that allows people like Matt Yglesias to justify the threats made to a journalists family, and justifies the people that made the threats.

After all, it's only recently that CNN has even suggested that Antifa is an issue, despite the fact that they have attacked many people, and the press itself at protests.  That's a marked change from their stance of ignoring and sometimes supporting it.

Even here, I can't complain about an entire thread painting everyone on the right as part of a Party of Hate and the KKK, without it being controversial to the point of mockery.  And that is just merely suggesting that not everyone is a White Supremacist by proxy.

And then, yes, not everyone on the left is "Dangerously uncivil"  just like not everyone on the right is in a "party of hate."

However, there are enough people that are uncivil, Clinton and Waters called for more incivility...and your go-to reaction is to down play that, while not extending the same courtesy to people with a diverse view on government.

So, I'm not saying that the people here are the problem.  I am saying that rhetoric we see in the "Party of Hate" and the "All things Donald Trump" threads (among others) that suggests that if they disagree with you, they are part of the KKK IS the problem.

It's a non-controversial controversy because the rhetoric is simply (and exclusively) rhetoric.

And because the majority of people on the Left believe "that not everyone on the right is a racist bigot Nazi fascist Russian bot."

Your OP and the ensuing discussion devolved, within minutes, into the world's biggest straw-man argument, with the requisite misrepresentation of opponents' positions, name calling, ad hominem attacks, etc. And the discussion is about as interesting to read as a Facebook post by an ill-informed 14-year-old.

Despite your superior intelligence and superior education, you fail to grasp three very basic points:

1. The majority of KB members who post in the various Politics threads are on the Left.

2. This is a discussion, not a PhD dissertation. In discussions, and especially political discussions, people tend toward hyperbole and exaggeration to make a point.

3. KB is one of the most insignificant sites on the entire Internet. This relatively obscure web site in a dusty little corner of the Web has no influence on anything. Ever.

The fact that political discussions on KB have a decided left-wing bent are evidence of nothing other than the fact that the members -- and, at any given moment, there are never more than 8-10 members who participate in the political discussions -- have a decided left-wing bent. And the reasons for this phenomenon should be obvious.

Your chief complaint boils down to the fact that the rhetoric is rhetoric. I'm neither as intelligent nor as well-educated as you, but I find that fact to be aggressively unremarkable.

1) For starters, within minutes, the argument devolved into claiming false persecution despite, as I pointed out, TWO threads seemingly devoted to labeling everyone of a conservative view as a Nazi.  What that was doing was excusing the rhetoric.

2) Rhetoric does matter, and it matters because speech is linked to thought.  The more your rhetoric reflects that everyone of a different view is a Nazi, the easier it is to justify the actions we just saw.  And, when people constantly hear and see things, it reinforces that thought process and allows them to justify all types of horrible actions.  This is why the world has propaganda...and make no mistake, threads like "The Party of Hate" are simply reinforcements of a propaganda that labels anyone of a different view as an evil Nazi.

4.  KB is insignificant politically, however the rhetoric that caused this is not unique to it.  That being said, it IS the rhetoric that allows people to justify threatening a journalists family for having a different view, because in their minds conservatives=Nazis...and we have the threads here that show the reinforcement of that belief.

[psiberzerker]

seemingly...

it reinforces that thought process...

You don't see that changing "It seems that" to "Seemingly" is repeating the same illusion (In case you missed that "Calling every Nazis who don't agree with them") is reinforcing the thought process that keeps repeating in your head, whenever you try to think?

[IrishGirl]

Okay, what is Ignored here?  Fine, than I'll say it.  When i say "Nazis."



That is what I mean.  Note, in this picture, not only are they flying American flags in the background, with the Schwastica, and the Seperatist flag.  

In the foreground, that's the Riot Squad, in Riot Armor, protecting the Nazis.  These Nazis:



Brought Shields.  To protect themselves, and who do the police chose to protect?  That's right, the Nazis.

In case you can't hear me over the hysterical shrieks?  If they wear Schwasticas.  They're Nazis.  If you're not wearing a Schwatica, or marching with anyone goose stepping hieling, and in general proudly declaring themselves Nazis?

#IAmNotCallingYouANazi.

No matter how much you want me to.  Trust me.  When I do?  You will know.

OK, you realize that this post IS implying that EVERYONE on the right supports the KKK and Nazis...and there is an ENTIRE THREAD where you guys get to pat yourselves on the back for equating everyone that's conservative to this crap by proxy.

And now you are denying that you are doing what you just did.

So, which is it?  Is everyone on the right in a "Party of hate" or are you "only concerned with real Nazis?"

[Jed_]

You both dissect each other’s responses like it’s a frog that you need to identify all the particular capillary arteries to get into medical school.  And you can’t actually see the capillaries, so you extrapolate from the larger arteries and veins you can see.

Huh?  Maybe I’m the one not making sense now?

[IrishGirl]

You both dissect each other’s responses like it’s a frog that you need to identify all the particular capillary arteries to get into medical school.  And you can’t actually see the capillaries, so you extrapolate from the larger arteries and veins you can see.

Huh?  Maybe I’m the one not making sense now?

All I am saying is that the rhetoric that labels all people of an opposing view as something completely evil justifies the actions we saw in the links I posted.

It seems Psi wants to double down on the Nazi-by-proxy.

[IrishGirl]

You both dissect each other’s responses like it’s a frog that you need to identify all the particular capillary arteries to get into medical school.  And you can’t actually see the capillaries, so you extrapolate from the larger arteries and veins you can see.

They dissect each other's responses like a couple of farmers trying to decide who a dead animal belonged to, in the dark, using shovels, with no real discernible way of identifying the animal by dissecting it in the first place. It's like watching a couple of AIs predefined to be outraged by everything trying to communicate with no common language.

It's not just here, he just told me how my vagina works in another thread.  Literally shit like that is why I stay in politics here.  I don't want my vagina dissected.

[psiberzerker]

It seems Psi wants to double down on the Nazi-by-proxy.

You said that, in literally every response in this thread today.  At this point, you've septupled down on the same point.  Saying it again, slightly reworded doesn't make reality match up with what it seems to you any more than the first 6 times it "Seemed" that way to you.

Repetition =/= truth.  I'm still not saying that.  I have never said that.  it only seems like we're saying that to you, because you're incapable of reading anything else, and this is STILL politics.

It's not just here, he just told me how my vagina works in another thread.  Literally shit like that is why I stay in politics here.  I don't want my vagina dissected.

I "Dissected" your salivary glands, not your vagina, and you're the one who brought your vagina up.  Granted, properly, and you even got a Woo for it, but you want to talk about your vagina, that's great.  I can only try to suggest alternatives.

[ChirpingGirl]

Would you people just get laid and shut the fuck up?