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Brett Kavanaugh - Appoint to Supreme Court, yes or no?

Lois · 17266

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Offline IrishGirl

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Reply #120 on: September 29, 2018, 05:29:56 PM
The presumption of innocence until proven guilty applies to how the government treats you prior to trial.  No trial is going on here.  Rather these are hearings concerning Kavanaugh's suitability and character to determine if he should be appointed to the highest court in the land.

And I remember when (Reagan nominee 1986) Douglas H. Ginsburg’s admission of smoking marijuana disqualified him from being appointed to the Supreme Court.

During these hearings Kavanaugh has lied about his drinking. He has also lied regarding his role concerning the vetting and preparation of others pending thier appointments to judicial positions with other federal courts.

He has been accused of sexual assaults, and yet he opposes a supplemental FBI background check that could clear him.  He had 65 women sign a letter saying he has always been a gentleman and presented it once the hearings began.  WTF?  It’s like he expected issues in this regard.

And during the proceedings he has shown himself to be a whiney asshole that falls back on partisan conspiracy theories when confronted by women accusing him of sexual assaults.

In my judgment, he has shown poor character during these hearings.  I do not believe he has the character needed to serve on our highest court.

I have heard that Kavanaugh is a judicial moderate when compared to the list that Trump circulated during his campaign.  If this is true, then the Democrats have nothing to gain by forcing Trump to nominate another who would likely be more right-wing.


Firstly, you are being one sided.  You are ONLY addressing the problems on one side of the story when there were issues on both sides all over the place.

I am seeing one side of the news claiming that she passed the polygraph test perfectly and without a hitch...and I am hearing Ford herself say that she was crying through it and the results were all over the place.

And then you are arguing that, because this isn't a trial, it is somehow OK to assume guilt by accusation alone?

Fine Lois, by that rational, just do the DNC a favor sit on the steps of the Senate and accuse every Republican you see of sexual harassment....because by your moral views, that is all you need to do, vaguely point at someone and mumble any accusation that comes to mind.

He assaulted me.
He raped me.
He kicked a puppy.
He killed and ate a Jewish baby.
He man-spread
I'm not sure who he is, but he put ketchup on a hot dog, so remove him to, just in case I don't agree with his political views.

You don't need to prove any of it, that is not the point.  The point is that you are accusing them and that is all that is needed to remove them from their positions or block them from a position...just an accusation.

Well, fuck, I saw Goody Proctor with the devil too, Judge Hawthorne.  Now let's go press old Giles Corey just for the craic.

I can't understand why so few people have a problem with simply being able to point a finger and issue an accusation and completely destroy someone...and then raise holy hell of they get anything close to an investigation into the claims.

Sorry, no, I'm not going to follow Abigail Williams down that rabbit hole.

And if you don't see the problems with this, you are all mad.

Just another surplus living the American dream


psiberzerker

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Reply #121 on: September 29, 2018, 05:59:35 PM
Firstly, you are being one sided.  You are ONLY addressing the problems on one side of the story when there were issues on both sides all over the place.

So, do you believe Brett?  Because that's the other side to your own argument, why the other testimonies are unbelieveable.  So, go right ahead, and show us both sides of that argument.  Answer the question:

Do you believe him?



Offline Athos_131

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Reply #122 on: September 29, 2018, 08:23:37 PM
Do you believe him?

I would like the answer to this question as well.

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Offline Lois

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Reply #123 on: September 29, 2018, 09:08:02 PM
Sorry Lois, it was raised in July of 1982 and not even on the 1st, not January.  I don’t recall the exact day, but it was in the middle of July matching the day they made the decision I suppose (would have made more sense to implement the following January 1st).

Ah, I could not find the day it was raised, so I assumed it was on the 1st of the year as is usual.

Thank you for the correction and the additional information.



Offline Jed_

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Reply #124 on: September 29, 2018, 11:47:19 PM
Sorry Lois, it was raised in July of 1982 and not even on the 1st, not January.  I don’t recall the exact day, but it was in the middle of July matching the day they made the decision I suppose (would have made more sense to implement the following January 1st).

Ah, I could not find the day it was raised, so I assumed it was on the 1st of the year as is usual.

Thank you for the correction and the additional information.

I had a friend that just missed the cut off.  That, and the date was posted on the walls of bars for the years after so they could look at IDs and know who to refuse.

So I recall it vividly, and apparently a hell of a lot better than Brett did when he constructed his fictional version of his drinking days.



Offline Athos_131

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Reply #125 on: September 30, 2018, 02:43:53 AM
Christine Blasey Ford's friend clarifies statement about alleged assault by Brett Kavanaugh

Quote
On Saturday, Keyser said through her lawyer in a letter to the committee that she was willing to "cooperate fully with the FBI's supplemental investigation" into Kavanaugh.

"However, as my client has already made clear, she does not know Judge Kavanaugh and has no recollection of ever being at a party or gathering where he was present, with, or without, Dr. Ford," the letter from Howard Walsh, Keyser's attorney, said. It continued that Keyser "does not refute Dr. Ford's account, and she has already told the press that she believes Dr. Ford's account."

"However, the simple and unchangeable truth is that she is unable to corroborate it because she has no recollection of the incident in question," the letter continued.

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psiberzerker

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Reply #126 on: September 30, 2018, 03:35:25 AM
I'm sure he just remembered wrong.  The problem is, that the legal drinking age just happens to be a matter of Federal Law.  

Either way, for misunderstanding Federal Law, or flagrant disregard for it, AND misinterpreting it for personal gain, he's unfit to Judge it.

Matt 7:1.  I rest my case.



Offline Athos_131

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Reply #127 on: September 30, 2018, 03:55:20 AM

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psiberzerker

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Reply #128 on: September 30, 2018, 04:02:51 AM
Great article this time, @Athos_131.  Very informative.  I learned things from it I hadn't considered, and it's raised things for me to research.  (On Spatial awareness, and memory in such experiences.)

Also: "I am not her therapist and have not met with Ford personally."  This is extremely important.  We can only really say general things about the state of mind of someone we haven't even met.  As professionals (If she were her therapist, she couldn't say anything at all without Explicit consent, preferably in writing, just to be on the save side.  She could have her license pulled if there were reason to suspect a breach of Confidentiality.) amateurs of course can call her crazy, and say she remembered wrong, because she doesn't remember where they ordered the Pizza for the party that night.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 04:07:06 AM by psiberzerker »



Offline Lois

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Reply #129 on: September 30, 2018, 04:21:35 AM
The ABA's point here is the least that could be made.

The entire saga of Kavanaugh's appointment is emblematic of every aspect of the Republican Party's utter decay in vicious amorality. He is almost certainly at the very least a man who no one should want near their daughters, and quite likely an actual rapist. The stories of his participation in bona fide rape parties are harrowing. He has also perjured himself. David Brock has testified from personal experience to his utter dishonesty on being able to be judicially neutral. And yet Kavanaugh's appointment is continued to be pushed forward with no investigation and with limits on the public knowing his actual views and behavior because, well, the 2018 midterms are coming up.

Remember how no one came forward accusing Neal Gorsuch or Merrick Garland of being a rapist?

At the least, democracy demands time to deliberate. If investigations find that Kavanaugh is innocent, fine! If we are able to forgive his demonstrated dishonesty, also fine! But the idea that the FBI can't investigate or that we can't afford to take the time to assess someone who will be one of the highest judges in the land is absurd.


American Bar Association: Delay Kavanaugh until FBI investigates assault allegations
https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/27/politics/kavanaugh-american-bar-association/index.html




Offline Athos_131

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Reply #130 on: September 30, 2018, 04:44:41 AM
The American Bar Association had concerns about Kavanaugh 12 years ago. Republicans dismissed those, too.

Quote
The group’s judicial investigator had recently interviewed dozens of lawyers, judges and others who had worked with Kavanaugh, the ABA announced at the time, and some of them raised red flags about “his professional experience and the question of his freedom from bias and open-mindedness.”

“One interviewee remained concerned about the nominee’s ability to be balanced and fair should he assume a federal judgeship,” the ABA committee chairman wrote to senators in 2006. “Another interviewee echoed essentially the same thoughts: ‘(He is) immovable and very stubborn and frustrating to deal with on some issues.’”

A particular judge had told the ABA that Kavanaugh had been “sanctimonious” during an oral argument in court. Several lawyers considered him inexperienced, and one said he “dissembled” in the courtroom.

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Offline joan1984

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Reply #131 on: September 30, 2018, 05:05:40 AM
 I stand with Judge K, Coach K, a innocent man, not charged with any crime to this day. Innocent until proven guilty is the standard of Justice to which we abide and this case is no different than any other. No one who may have voted against recommending Judge Kavanaugh for Confirmation, intended to vote in his favor, from before the time of his selection by the President.

  No accuser, not any attorney representing any accuser, has made a legal charge, or requested a Police investigation Montgomery County, Maryland, where the jurisdiction exists for such charges to be raised and adjudicated. There is good reason for that, in my opinion. Judge Kavanaugh is innocent, demonstrably so, of such a flimsy charge.

  Not one element of evidence has been forthcoming by his accusers. Not one of the supposed witnesses or corroborating persons who were 'there', admit to ever being in any such event, wherever it may have been, whenever it may have been. Mrs. Ford's parents, almost never referenced, perhaps are no longer living, if that is the reason they were not with her in support at the Senate.

  The person or persons who gave transport to Mrs. Ford (ne: Blasey), either to or from 'the party', which she indicates was about 5 miles from her then home, is known by Mrs. Ford, or has come forward, perhaps to say what day the party occurred, and where, even roughly where, let alone an address.

  Little to no difficult questioning of Mrs. Ford occurred during the Senate hearing, certainly no real cross examination, to highlight the various inconsistency issues raised by Mrs. Ford's inability to recall details, or to present a single witness to the event.

  No charges are filed, no accusations made in the jurisdiction, no details which can be confirmed, no address, no date, no year actually, while it is presumed to be 1982, as Mrs. Ford believes she was 15 years old at that time.

  The incident was raised in marriage counseling when Mrs. Ford seemed to be not able to agree on "how many front doors to have" when her home was to be redone. It was a serious enough issue between the Fords to prompt a mental health 'counselor' get involved. Mrs Ford has Two 'front doors' today, and says her property looks odd from the street, accordingly, and so the story uncovered during counseling, during the Romney Campaign for President, won out in the end. Was the memory induced? Hypnosis? Vague about what report the Senate was provided from the 'counselor'.

  No one has 'investigated' Mrs. Ford as to her veracity, save a 'support' letter from her husband. All internet and social sites have been scrubbed, with 'bleach bit' perhaps? I have no doubt Mrs. Ford has had some upsetting moments in life and cannot imagine having her as my Professor, but she is entitled to her own mind, and thinking.

  Democrats on the Committee are uniform, too uniform, when we consider some of them are former prosecutors, in full 100% support of anything Mrs. Ford says, and incurious as to holes in her story, seeing no one asked her a thing about such a vacuum of meaningful proof.

  Republicans elected to have a female prosecutor from Arizona do the questions and while she did her job well, the fractured time in 5 minute increments, and her decision to handle it as a deposition type of questioning, rather than as a prosecutor, asking difficult questions in a search for truth, for proof, added little to a full understanding, in my opinion.

  Mrs. Ford testified the polygraph was long and intrusive, with wires and such all over her body. 'all over her body' is the way she also described the claim about an encounter with Judge Kavanaugh at the party. The polygraph examiner asked her TWO questions. How intrusive and how long could it take for 2 questions. Mrs Ford is clearly troubled, tearing up while taking praise from the Democrat Senators on the Committee even.

  I am happy she got her 2 front doors. She seems pleased as well.

  The prosecutor said later there was not enough in Mrs. Ford's presentation to justify even a search warrant, let along any charges.

  The FBI has a week to sort out what there is to sort, speak to relevant parties, and get some legally 'on the record' under penalty of jail for lying to the FBI, and we shall see how they handle this assignment. If the take the whole time allocated, or not, it seems the goal of having the President's Nominee sitting on the Court for the entire next session has been defeated, which was the goal of Senate Democrats.

  Let us hope the Judiciary Committee survives as a meaningful body. Perhaps not a reasonable expectation in 2018.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 05:19:22 AM by joan1984 »

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Offline Katiebee

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Reply #132 on: September 30, 2018, 05:08:20 AM
It’s not a court of law. They are determining if he has the ethics and moral fiber, the ability to remain unbiased, calm and deliberative. He has shown a lack of all of that.

There are three kinds of people in the world. Those who can count, and those who can't.


Offline joan1984

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Reply #133 on: September 30, 2018, 05:23:40 AM
  Democrats voted against sending his Nomination to the floor. Seems if he had any better determination, they still would have voted exactly the same. This has been about delaying the Nomination Vote, and denying the President's choice the ability to join the SCOTUS for the full term. Elections matter.

It’s not a court of law. They are determining if he has the ethics and moral fiber, the ability to remain unbiased, calm and deliberative. He has shown a lack of all of that.

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Reply #134 on: September 30, 2018, 05:44:25 AM
Wrong. Did you forget about Gorluch?
This one has issues, serious issues.

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psiberzerker

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Reply #135 on: September 30, 2018, 06:46:58 AM
 I stand with Judge K, Coach K, a innocent man, not charged with any crime to this day. Innocent until proven guilty is the standard of Justice to which we abide and this case is no different than any other.

That's not exactly how "Innocent until proven guilty" actually works.  You may assume he's Innocent (Or not guilty) for political reasons, but we still have to make sure our Supreme Court Judges are morally sound, when it comes to respecting the law.  These accusations, not just the sex scandal stuff, but also the underage drinking, and prior lies under oath call those into question.

Democrats voted against sending his Nomination to the floor. Seems if he had any better determination, they still would have voted exactly the same. This has been about delaying the Nomination Vote, and denying the President's choice the ability to join the SCOTUS for the full term. Elections matter.

Delaying the nomination vote has little to do with the process.  It won't prevent the vote, which is the ultimate goal.  However, if you want Trump's judges on the Supreme Court, regardless of their ethical fitness, then 2 things:

1)  He doesn't have to make it easy for the opposition by nominating someone this easy to impune, and 2)  He's  not even 2 years into his term.  Nobody else is going to nominate, anyone for the next 2 years.  So, the next one will be Trump's pick, and you (Your side) wins regardless.  He's still going to pick the newest 2 SCotUS members, regardless.  You're still fighting, when you've already won, I can only assume out of blind loyalty, so you can't admit he made a colossally bad choice.  Again.

Which was the plan, all along, when the GoP prevented Obama from doing it, and set a precident that the Senate can block the President from DOING HIS JOB.  They won that war.  This particular battle is relatively minor, considering the fact that Donny just has to pick someone better the next time.  Just hope he actually listens to his advisors then, but this one's circling the bowl.  Even if you don't want to see it.

It’s not a court of law. They are determining if he has the ethics and moral fiber, the ability to remain unbiased, calm and deliberative. He has shown a lack of all of that.

^This.  It's pretty damned easy to prove, leagally at this point.  Just the underage Drinking is enough, and we've only heard testimony from 1 of his victims.  There's still 3 more, that we know about, and the FBI hasn't uncovered any of the Drunk Driving he was never charged with.  What reason do I have to suspect that?

I know drunks like that, plenty of them.  I've had to take the keys away from drunks like that.  How much are you willing to bet, he's never been charged with it, because he had connections in the Georgetown/DC PDs?  We've barely scratched the surface of his abuses of power, and privilege.  It hasn't even been a Quarter (of a year) since he was nominated.

He's an easy target.  Try better next time...
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 06:52:16 AM by psiberzerker »



Offline Athos_131

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Reply #136 on: September 30, 2018, 08:58:36 AM
The rapist supporter who thought Cosby was innocent and Roy Moore was fit to be a senator believes another rapist should be on the Supreme Court.

No one is surprised.

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Offline Athos_131

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Reply #137 on: September 30, 2018, 09:16:33 AM
THE UNBEARABLE DISHONESTY OF BRETT KAVANAUGH

Quote
Kavanaugh even lied about having no connections to Yale. “I have no connections there. I got there by busting my tail,” Kavanaugh said under oath about getting into Yale Law School after attending Yale as an undergrad. In fact, he was a legacy: His grandfather, Everett Edward Kavanaugh, also went to Yale for undergrad, as this yearbook shows.



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« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 09:19:17 AM by Athos_131 »

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Offline Athos_131

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Reply #138 on: September 30, 2018, 09:24:22 AM


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Offline Lois

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Reply #139 on: October 01, 2018, 12:06:55 AM
He lied about being of legal drinking age and admitted drinking when he was a minor,  He broke the law and lied. Judge Ginsberg admitted smoking MJ, which was against the law at the time. So if disqualifying for one, it should be disqualifying for the other. 

On top of it all he lied to congress on multiple occasions. He has shown contempt of Congress by lying to them and being interruptive and rude during proceedings.  He has advocated for the supremecy of executive power. How can he possibly serve on a court created to be a check on both executive and legislative power?

He should not be part of the Supreme Court.