Brett Kavanaugh - Appoint to Supreme Court, yes or no?

[Jed_]

Stop deflecting.

Do you think he should be on the Supreme Court?

#Resist

No, but not specifically for the events that will play out today as accuser and accused testify, at least not yet.  I’m really looking forward to hearing this.

It was the Republicans that created the delay tactics in this game by changing the rules and refusing to even give Obama’s moderate and perfectly reasonable qualified pick for SCOTUS a fair hearing, and now they are crying crocodile tears having their own tactics used against them.

Even President mushroom dick (thanks Stormy for that awful image) seems less than convinced now about his fellow pussygrabber selection.  Of course this is not because of the pussy grabbing, but because he was weak and insufficiently indignant in his denials.  Because mushroom dick knows when faced with true accusations, you vehemently deny them and play the indignant victim.

[psiberzerker]

In the time of the #ME TOO" movement or maybe it should be called "#I said you did, there for you are guilty" movement. Where is there any proof ?? That is all I want. To demand the FBI investigate is laughable. We are so willing to destroy someone based on humors and possible lies, really !! Have we gotten to that point ??  

What kind of proof would satisfy your burden?  Paternity tests with rape kits, DNA, bruises, and broken bones, or would that be consensual rough sex, and she just wants his child support money?  (Because we hear that too, all the time in other cases.)  4 corroborating victim's testimonies (Also, we're up to 4) some of them pillars of the communities at the time, with witnesses including his own friends, room mate, pacts for record-breaking binge drinking, wild parties, and a notorious rape gang on campus?

So, I'm going to call it the #NopeNeverHappened movement, because no amount of evidence is sufficient when they're women, and women lie about being sexually assaulted.  Men, of course, never do.

Never mind the fact that he's already lied under oath in a confirmation hearing.  I'm sure we can take his word for it, over everyone else involved in the cases.

[psiberzerker]

She had to testify that she was "100% certain that she was sexually assaulted" by Brett.  That's your #UnreasonableDoubt movement.  It even has to be said, under oath, that there's any doubt in an adult woman's mind that she was sexually assaulted.  The assumption is that she, a teacher, and pillar of the community, is in fact aware of the Attempted Rape, when she wasn't drunk.  Under age, they were.  She wasn't a virgin, sexually inexperienced, young, confused, or ignorant.  A well educated woman, with a career in teaching actually has to say that she's not unsure when she's been sexually assaulted.  When drunken partyboys try to rape her, and only by the grace of Whiskey Dick did they avoid this being Rape Charges, instead of "Sexual Misconduct."

Sexual misconduct is jacking off in the corner, because somebody's puking in the restroom.  Not attempted gang rape, but we all have to prove that Dr. Ford does in fact know what attempted rape is.  

[Athos_131]

In the time of the #ME TOO" movement or maybe it should be called "#I said you did, there for you are guilty" movement. Where is there any proof ?? That is all I want. To demand the FBI investigate is laughable. We are so willing to destroy someone based on humors and possible lies, really !! Have we gotten to that point ?? 

Lying to the FBI or Congress is a crime.

#Resist

[MissBarbara]

In the time of the #ME TOO" movement or maybe it should be called "#I said you did, there for you are guilty" movement. Where is there any proof ?? That is all I want. To demand the FBI investigate is laughable. We are so willing to destroy someone based on humors and possible lies, really !! Have we gotten to that point ?? 

I assume you meant rumors, and not humors.

Regardless, I'm having a very hard time reconciling two of your statements:

"Where is there any proof ?? That is all I want."

and

"To demand the FBI investigate is laughable."

In other words, you demand proof, but you condemn an investigation that might uncover proof.

It's also helpful to remind yourself that Brett Kavanaugh is not on trial in a court of law. And that the so-called "court of public opinion" is anything but.

Both in general and in particular, in this type of situation you have three basic options:

1. Accept the allegations and accusations on their face.
2. Reject and dismiss the allegations and accusations out of hand.
3. Investigate to determine the viability of the allegations and accusations.

In this instance, I can't think of a single reason not to follow that third course. Meanwhile, choosing the first or second choice is purely political, or polemical.

The good news is that we haven't gotten anywhere near the point where "we are so willing to destroy someone based on rumors and possible lies." And the even better news is that we HAVE gotten to the point where accusations are not instantly dismissed out of hand, explained away, or ignored altogether.

It's the fruit of an emerging and growing societal intolerance for the types of behavior that used to be deemed acceptable. You know, boys will be boys, she was asking for it, and all that.

This does NOT mean that every accusation of sexual misconduct or sexual assault made by a woman or a man should be blindly accepted as fact. Far from it. But it does mean that these accusations should be given greater weight and seriousness. And, yes, it also means that there will be instances when someone -- again, a woman or a man -- lies about an incident that never occurred.

But that only makes your rejection of an investigation even more puzzling. And that only gives greater impetus to my assertion that "these accusations should be given greater weight and seriousness." And the non-existent "court of public opinion" should play exactly zero role in making these determinations.

[psiberzerker]

Also, again.  "To demand the FMI investigate" is called a Background Check.  He's not applying for county Dogcatcher here, it's not "Laughable" it's part of the Confirmation Process.  Any allegations have to be investigated, they have to.  Especially if his morals, JUDGEment, and disregard for people's bodily rights are called into question.  Just like the prior Pejury accusations.

We should vet our Presidents, and Legislators as thoroughly, but those have finite, not unlimited Terms.  SCotUS is a lifelong appointment.  

Also, I just noticed this morning that Both Texas senators are on the Judiciary Committee.  That struck me as a little odd, and overly favorable.  20 Senators (Not counting Grassley) out of 100, and 1/10 represent Texas.  How many states aren't represented at all, on either side of the aisle?

[Katiebee]

It is obvious that some people think this is a trial. It is not. It is a job interview to see if the individual is qualified, competent, and ethically qualified. Under the circumstances he is disqualified for ethical reasons. An investigation is reasonable if Kavanaugh wishes to clear his reputation and not enter the SCOTUS under a cloud like Clarence Thomas.

[watcher1]

So far, three accusers have come forward. Granted, their accusations stem from events that have happened many years ago. Some details are sketchy. I personally find it hard to believe why these women would fabricate such things.

On the other hand, Kavanaugh has insisted he never did what these women have accused him of. Has he said he cannot remember? Or is he insistent that these woman are mistaken.  I am sure if during college I had waved my penis in a woman's face and insisted she touch it I would have remembered that, even after all those years, unless he has done such things so often he cannot be sure or he was so drunk he cannot remember, which I find a rather dubious excuse.

What I do believe is happening is that the Democrats are just getting back at the Republicans for what they did to the judge Obama had nominated for the Supreme Court.  The Democrats are prolonging this hearing hoping it will go past the November mid-term elections in hopes they will gain more seats in order to extract maybe favors from the Republicans or have Trump withdraw Kavanaugh's name and nominate another judge, more favorable to the Democrats.

[Athos_131]

There are four accusers.

#Resist

[Athos_131]

What I do believe is happening is that the Democrats are just getting back at the Republicans for what they did to the judge Obama had nominated for the Supreme Court.  The Democrats are prolonging this hearing hoping it will go past the November mid-term elections in hopes they will gain more seats in order to extract maybe favors from the Republicans or have Trump withdraw Kavanaugh's name and nominate another judge, more favorable to the Democrats.

Neil Gorsuch didn't have these issues getting confirmed.

#Resist

[psiberzerker]

unless he has done such things so often he cannot be sure or he was so drunk he cannot remember, which I find a rather dubious excuse.

Okay, honestly, no.  He's a judge, an experienced one.  So, he knows the way these proceedings go well enough that he's not going to even try something so specious as to claim that committing more crimes (Underage drinking, and serial sexual exposure) excuses his behavior, nor the sketchiness in his own testimony.  It's his defenders that resort to such pathetic excuses for excuses.  He's at least too professional to try that bullshit. He knows better, but the armchair lawyers apparently don't.

What I do believe is happening is that the Democrats are just getting back at the Republicans for what they did to the judge Obama had nominated for the Supreme Court.

The one he was allowed to appoint.  Not counting the ones he was prevented from appointing, because it was his last year in office.  Also, if this is all an attempt to stop the Dumpster Fire from appointing a SCotUS, they let one pass, without this kind of conspiracy to commit libel, and slander.  Did they just think of the Sex Scandal thing, now that Hillary is pretty much out of the picture, or is it possible that 4 women remember being sexually assaulted?  

Finally, stalling in this manner wouldn't work.  The Judiciary Committee is already empanneled.  Even if Beto replaces Cruz, they're not going to play musical chairs, or filibuster, and start all over again.  It's a Confirmation Hearing, not an Impeachemtn, so they can't just stall until the Term is up.  They know this, so that's obviously not the plan.

[Athos_131]

In the time of the #ME TOO" movement or maybe it should be called "#I said you did, there for you are guilty" movement. Where is there any proof ?? That is all I want. To demand the FBI investigate is laughable. We are so willing to destroy someone based on humors and possible lies, really !! Have we gotten to that point ?? 

I assume you meant rumors, and not humors.

Regardless, I'm having a very hard time reconciling two of your statements:

"Where is there any proof ?? That is all I want."

and

"To demand the FBI investigate is laughable."

In other words, you demand proof, but you condemn an investigation that might uncover proof.

It's also helpful to remind yourself that Brett Kavanaugh is not on trial in a court of law. And that the so-called "court of public opinion" is anything but.

Both in general and in particular, in this type of situation you have three basic options:

1. Accept the allegations and accusations on their face.
2. Reject and dismiss the allegations and accusations out of hand.
3. Investigate to determine the viability of the allegations and accusations.

In this instance, I can't think of a single reason not to follow that third course. Meanwhile, choosing the first or second choice is purely political, or polemical.

The good news is that we haven't gotten anywhere near the point where "we are so willing to destroy someone based on rumors and possible lies." And the even better news is that we HAVE gotten to the point where accusations are not instantly dismissed out of hand, explained away, or ignored altogether.

It's the fruit of an emerging and growing societal intolerance for the types of behavior that used to be deemed acceptable. You know, boys will be boys, she was asking for it, and all that.

This does NOT mean that every accusation of sexual misconduct or sexual assault made by a woman or a man should be blindly accepted as fact. Far from it. But it does mean that these accusations should be given greater weight and seriousness. And, yes, it also means that there will be instances when someone -- again, a woman or a man -- lies about an incident that never occurred.

But that only makes your rejection of an investigation even more puzzling. And that only gives greater impetus to my assertion that "these accusations should be given greater weight and seriousness." And the non-existent "court of public opinion" should play exactly zero role in making these determinations.

Kavanaugh's defenders are right — we don't have enough facts. So why not have the FBI investigate?

#Resist

[Athos_131]

#Resist

[IrishGirl]

I think, at this point, it's fair to say that all Athos is looking for is guilt without proof.

[Athos_131]

I think, at this point, it's fair to say that all Athos is looking for is guilt without proof.

Are you supporting sexual abuse?

#Resist

[Athos_131]

HOW DARE YOU DO THIS TO BRETT KAVANAUGH?

HOW DARE YOU?!
HOW DARE YOU DO THIS TO BRETT KAVANAUGH?
HOW DARE YOU DENY HIM THIS SEAT?!

Listen, NO, YOU listen!
Do you know who Brett Kavanaugh is? Brett Kavanaugh went to Georgetown Prep!
BRETT KAVANAUGH IS AN OPTIMIST WHO LOOKS ON THE SUNSHINE SIDE OF THE MOUNTAIN!
BRETT KAVANAUGH IS NOT YELLING!
YOU’RE YELLING!

If Brett does not secure a lifetime appointment on the Supreme Court, this country will be IN SHAMBLES! THIS IS HIS BIRTHRIGHT! Do you know how embarrassing it is for a Georgetown Prep graduate to NOT be on the Supreme Court? They are literally 12 PERCENT of the court! THIS IS PROBABLY THE WORST INDIGNITY YOU CAN INFLICT ON A HUMAN BEING!

ALL BRETT IS ASKING FOR IS DUE PROCESS! DUE PROCESS BEFORE HE IS DEPRIVED OF HIS GOD-GIVEN RIGHT TO A SEAT ON THE HIGHEST COURT IN THE LAND, WHERE HE WILL DETERMINE THE FATES OF MILLIONS!

Apply the standard you want to apply to your husband-brother-son. He should be allowed to be careless. He should be allowed to like beer.
BRETT LIKES BEER!
WHO DOESN’T LIKE BEER!
BRETT ISN’T YELLING!
YOU’RE YELLING!
THIS IS A CON JOB!
THIS IS A FARCE!
YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED!
THIS IS BRETT’S SEAT!

The Founders did not break from Britain so a landed white gentleman accused of sexual misconduct could NOT be given FREE REIN over the lives of millions!

If you give this woman credence, you will start a terrible trend. THINK OF ALL THE CARELESS PREP SCHOOL BOYS WHO WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO SIT ON THE HIGHEST COURT IN THE LAND! WOMEN WHO HAVE SUFFERED TRAUMA WILL BE ALLOWED TO GET ON PLANES WILLY-NILLY — EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE FRIGHTENED!

You are going to deny a qualified man. The treasurer of Keg Club — DO YOU HEAR HIM, HE WAS KEG CLUB TREASURER! AND A RENATE ALUMNIUS! HOW DARE YOU DENY A KEG CLUB TREASURER AND RENATE ALUMNIUS A SUPREME COURT SEAT?!

ARE YOU GOING TO BELIEVE HER, AMERICA? OVER HIM, AMERICA?

YOU HEARD THE WOMAN! SHE DOESN’T EVEN LIKE TO FLY! YET SHE FLEW HERE! SHE DOESN’T REMEMBER ALL THE DETAILS OF THE EVENING, WHEREAS HE KEPT A CALENDAR, LIKE HIS FATHER BEFORE HIM!

HE IS NOT EMOTIONAL!
YOU ARE EMOTIONAL!
NO, YOU LISTEN!

If this is how you are going to behave, if you are going to believe this woman, if you will let her stand there and destroy his life (well, not his life, technically, nor his freedom, just his chance of a seat on the highest court in the land), then what kind of country is this going to be?

They are going to drag him here in front of all these OTHER MEN and deny him a seat on the Supreme Court, and he will have to walk home confused and disoriented, and he will have to live with the feeling that he is NOT ON THE SUPREME COURT for as long as he lives. Whenever he gets on a plane and sits in his seat, he will think of the seat HE IS NOT IN.

This is OPPRESSION! TO BE DENIED POWER OVER OTHERS! IF THAT IS NOT WHAT IT IS, DO NOT TELL ME.

He should be given exactly as much benefit of the doubt as we would not give a black man shot in his own apartment by police. HE DESERVES IT! IT IS HIS BIRTHRIGHT. HE WENT TO GEORGETOWN PREP.

As President Trump said, “This is beyond Supreme Court. This is everything to do with our country. When you are guilty until proven innocent, it’s just not supposed to be that way. Always I’ve heard you’re innocent until proven guilty. I’ve heard this so long. It’s such a beautiful phrase. In this case, you’re guilty until proven innocent. I think that is a very dangerous standard for our country.”

IT IS TRUE! No man should be deprived of his life, liberty or the deciding seat on the highest court in the land without DUE PROCESS. THIS SHOULD BE HIS. The right to decide the fates of millions is one a man like him is born with, ONE OF THOSE INALIENABLE RIGHTS, AND IT SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN FROM HIM WITHOUT BEAUTIFUL DUE PROCESS!

NOW HIS WORLD IS FALLING APART! NOW HE IS BEING FORCED TO GO OVER HIS HIGH SCHOOL BEHAVIOR WITH A FINE-TOOTHED COMB! THIS IS NOT FAIR! THIS SCRUTINY! THIS DEMAND TO ACCOUNT! HE DESERVES THIS POWER! GIVE IT TO HIM! STOP ASKING HIM THESE QUESTIONS! STOP TRYING TO SLOW THIS TRAIN DOWN! THIS TRAIN HAD BETTER GET WHERE IT IS GOING, OR SOMETHING BAD WILL HAPPEN!

STOP SAYING THINGS! SHHH! BE QUIET! STOP RESISTING BRETT KAVANAUGH. STOP TRYING TO STOP HIM.
NO, LISTEN! LISTEN!

HE DESERVES THIS!

LISTEN, YOU DON’T DESERVE THIS. AMERICA DOESN’T DESERVE BRETT KAVANAUGH ON THE SUPREME COURT.

IF THIS IS HOW AMERICA IS GOING TO BEHAVE,
IT DOESN’T DESERVE BRETT KAVANAUGH AT ALL!

#Resist

[Jed_]

I think, at this point, it's fair to say that all Athos is looking for is guilt without proof.

I know how much fun you have baiting him Irish slut, and have at it all you want.

This isn’t a criminal proceeding.  It’s a job interview in which he’s coming off miserably, and his prime accuser very credibly.  His biggest mistake has been claiming he’s never blacked out, as he would have been far more sympathetic and believable to say ‘I drank too much when I was younger, and I’m ashamed of that now, but I don’t have any memory of this incident.  I feel terrible that this happened to her, and if I was involved in any way, I’m terribly sorry.’

Instead we get all this ‘it’s a left wing conspiracy’ nonsense?

My guess is Trump will be the one to pull his nomination for reasons I’ve already stated, he hasn’t been sufficiently indignant in his denials and has been weak in not viciously attacking his accusers.  And most importantly, this is about Trump and Kavanaugh is stealing the attention.

[Athos_131]

I know how much fun you have baiting him Irish slut, and have at it all you want.

Don't you have some strippers to cry over?

Go Fuck Yourself.

#Resist

[Jed_]

I know how much fun you have baiting him Irish slut, and have at it all you want.

Don't you have some strippers to cry over?

Go Fuck Yourself.

#Resist

Gave those up when I got a girlfriend.  It was a very fun little mini-midlife crisis that got me over my wife’s passing and mentally prepared me for a new relationship.  Which certainly explains my current sunny disposition and lack of any emotional response to your insults, oh and I see you gave me a boo too.  I have no other response.  Life is good.

I even left here for a bit.  I primarily came back to keep an eye on the Irish slut.  So far I see no need to rein her in.

[psiberzerker]

I have to say, he's not very good at appearing sincere, or even convinced of his own account.  Just watching him testify.  Also, how many bottles of water can he drink without taking a leak?  I lost count.

He's right, it is a circus.  I think he's just uncomfortable with not being the ringleader.