Bernie Sanders is No Longer "Left" According to The Far Left

[IrishGirl]

In yet another example of the extremists that are trying to hijack the Democratic Party, Bernie Sanders, who they once endorsed for president--to the point that they were willing to cast protest votes against the real left--has been rejected by the extremists on the left.

Why?  Because of their willingness to eat their own to show how validated and loyal they are to a litmus test that changes daily?  Well yes.

But it is also because he does not support the total destruction of ICE, which many extremists do.

The reason, I would suppose, that Sanders broke from the Authoritarian goose stepping on, ICE, I would suppose comes from the fact that he knows what it actually does.  And understands that it does more than strip children away from their parents.

I am certain the break comes form the fact that Sanders actually has a strong grasp on what government is, and understands that ICE is, in fact, several agencies that were rolled into one with the establishment of Homeland Security, and sees the need for many of these agencies to still exist...like Customs, and a task force to assure that all incoming diamonds adhere to the Kimberly Process before entering the United States, a branch designed specifically to stop human trafficking, and on that prevents internet money laundering.

However, I am sure that the far left among us, will remain to argue that the "C" in ICE does not stand for "Customs" and that the Customs Agency remains--despite it's 2002 addition to ICE--because they can still see a sign at airports that reads "Customs" because that's what they do there and not the name of the agency...which is a part of ICE.

And, if you think about it, that makes sense, because it's 2018 and Americans have forgotten a lot about how their government actually works due to being constantly bombarded with propaganda from both sides.

Most notably from "The New Republic" where I found the article:
https://newrepublic.com/article/149378/bernie-sanders-not-left

[psiberzerker]

I guess "Left" is really dependent on where you put the baseline, or Zero Point.  He never claimed to be "Left," in fact, he's fairly independent.  Has been for decades.  It was a pretty arbitrary distinction to begin with.

However, he's fairly outspoken against Oligarchs, and who's running the far-left extremists?

IrishGirl.  I'm agreeing with you.  Great find, thank you.

[Athos_131]

Bernie Sanders is a man without a plan.

#Resist

[IrishGirl]

^Athos Sums up my point pretty well.

[Lois]

I've got news for you.  Bernie was never considered left by the extreme left because he works with and within the Democratic Party.  This is nothing new.

Making the abolition of ICE a definition of who is left is stupid.  Bernie supports redefining ICE's mission, which is simply another way to solve the situation.  The problem I have with ICE is how it is being used by the Trump administration, so I'm very much in line with Bernie.

ICE was established by the Patriot Act, so it's a new enforcement agency.  It could be dissolved and enforcement could revert back to the previous agencies. 

[RopeFiend]

I have a relative that worked for the fore-runner to ICE.  It wasn't any better, and was quite a bit worse in some respects.  He wasn't happy with most of the federal policies, and sure as hell wasn't happy with the local administration.


What special kind of fucking moron uses the extremists to define the 'normal'? 

I'd give that 'news' rag a wide detour if I were you, IrishGirl.  They've smoked some SERIOUSLY bad hallucinogens over there.  That's not news, that's pure lunacy.

[IrishGirl]

I have a relative that worked for the fore-runner to ICE.  It wasn't any better, and was quite a bit worse in some respects.  He wasn't happy with most of the federal policies, and sure as hell wasn't happy with the local administration.


What special kind of fucking moron uses the extremists to define the 'normal'?  

I'd give that 'news' rag a wide detour if I were you, IrishGirl.  They've smoked some SERIOUSLY bad hallucinogens over there.  That's not news, that's pure lunacy.

Which forerunner?  ICE is several agencies rolled into one?  Most of which had absolutely nothing to do with the ONE part of ICE that people are taking issues with.

[IrishGirl]

ICE was established by the Patriot Act, so it's a new enforcement agency.  It could be dissolved and enforcement could revert back to the previous agencies. 

Don't say that, Cortez and many others want to destroy it in its entirety....they will kick you out too.

[psiberzerker]

Most of which had absolutely nothing to do with the ONE part of ICE that people are taking issues with.

That would be using children, American citizens against their parents, to tear families apart?

That's like unfairly judging Nazis for that whole Holocaust thing.  Not calling you a Nazi, but they used the same goddamned tactics, and it was wrong when sie Germans did it.

Immigration is not a "Problem" for America.  We pretty much have to stop being America to make it a problem.

[IrishGirl]

Godwins law, proving people have no base since 1990

[psiberzerker]

Godwins law, proving people have no base since 1990

Is that it?  Is that why you constantly accuse people of calling you a Nazi, because you think Godwin's Law is an automatic win?

Santayana's Law:  "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

You actually went, and looked it up, to get that 1990 date without reading the article, didn't you?  No, it doesn't prove people wrong.  It doesn't declare you the winner, it just says that if a debate goes on long enough, the odds of someone being compared to Hitler approach 0.  

Look it up.  Now, whom precisely did I compare to Hitler?  If you're going to site the "Law," at least demonstrate that you read, and understand it, instead of just memorizing the date.  History isn't memorizing dates, it's understanding what actually happened.  (To the best of our ability)

This isn't a debate, I'm not even arguing with you, we can discuss this if you can resist the urge to make everything a fight, every discussion about you, and everyone an enemy calling you a nazi.

[MissBarbara]

I've got news for you.  Bernie was never considered left by the extreme left because he works with and within the Democratic Party.  This is nothing new.

Making the abolition of ICE a definition of who is left is stupid.  Bernie supports redefining ICE's mission, which is simply another way to solve the situation.  The problem I have with ICE is how it is being used by the Trump administration, so I'm very much in line with Bernie.

ICE was established by the Patriot Act, so it's a new enforcement agency.  It could be dissolved and enforcement could revert back to the previous agencies. 

I agree with IrishGirl's points, and I think Lois puts her finger precisely in the problem.

More to the point, I would assert that the "hardcore radical Left" makes a lot of noise and gets a lot of attention, but are relatively meaningless in the big picture. They don't sway elections, and they don't even sway Democratic primaries. The overriding reason why Sanders gained the traction that he did was because he worked within the Democratic Party structure. Had he positioned himself outside the party, he would have becom eonly a minor footnote.

I'm sure many here witnessed Governor Cuomo's eye-poppingly silly attempts to align himself with the far left during his gubernatorial re-election campaign, an election he won by more than 30 points (and would have won by an even higher margin had his opponent not been a pretty movie star).




 

[RopeFiend]

I have a relative that worked for the fore-runner to ICE.  It wasn't any better, and was quite a bit worse in some respects.  He wasn't happy with most of the federal policies, and sure as hell wasn't happy with the local administration.

Which forerunner?  ICE is several agencies rolled into one?  Most of which had absolutely nothing to do with the ONE part of ICE that people are taking issues with.

US Border Patrol, in far Southern Arizona.  Yep, they did a LITTLE of what everyone is pissed about, but they only separated the adults & kids if there was obvious signs of abuse.

His biggest frustration was that they wouldn't let him DO anything most days.  He had a particular hard-on for the coyotes, as a lot of them took severe advantage of the illegals they were assisting.

I haven't looked - was the Border Patrol rolled into ICE, or is it still separate?

[Lois]

Border Patrol is still seperate, but Immigration (Migre) and Customs were seperate agencies.

[Lois]

What special kind of fucking moron uses the extremists to define the 'normal'? 

I think she hangs out with extreme leftists, or at least used to.  But yeah, most folks have never even hears of the International Socialist Organization or the Workers World Party.  These are fringe groups and outside of college campuses they really don't matter much.

[IrishGirl]

I haven't looked - was the Border Patrol rolled into ICE, or is it still separate?

This is EXACTLY my point.  ICE has been in existence since I was 6 years-old.  It involves several organizations that do extremely important things...

...and everyone that complains about them only associates them with a singular staged photograph and actions that have been ongoing since BEFORE I was born, and certainly before ICE was even a thing.

And mainly that is all because of extremists that are yelling the loudest about things that even they don't understand and making false analogies to Adolf Hitler...always Hitler.

You don't agree with it, Hitler!  Fascism!  Russia Bot!

When, in fact, people have absolutely no clue what they really do, because no one bothers to actually look things up for themselves...just post the echo that suits you best.

Border Patrol is still seperate, but Immigration (Migre) and Customs were seperate agencies.

In this case...Lois is actually correct.  Border Patrol is a separate thing, part of the customs agency and, honestly, where most of the complaints about separating children from their families and deporting vets actually comes from.

When people complain about ICE...they are complaining about Border Patrol most of the time.

ICE does Federal Air Marshalls, the people that are undercover on long flights to prevent another 9-11 or terrorist hijacking.

They do Federal Protective Services, monitor Federal buildings and secure them from terrorist attacks.

They do the part of Customs that involved Drug and Human Trafficking.  They do enforce arms trafficking.  

Human Rights Violations, Art Theft, Internet Money Laundering, counterfeit immigration and identity documents, Enforce the Kimberly process to block blood diamonds from entering the US.

They do intelligence and counter-intelligence

They even have a first responder branch to work with FEMA.  They are at Hurricane Flourance.

Yep, they did a LITTLE of what everyone is pissed about, but they only separated the adults & kids if there was obvious signs of abuse.

No, almost ALL of what they do is NOT AT ALL what everyone is pissed about.  Their part of it is that they are tasked with running the facilities, not arresting and detaining the people.  When a detention facility is needed for international crimes, they get tasked with it.

The Border Patrol still arrests the people and the Judicial System still separates the families and gives the people a trial.

And that is also something that people don't seem to understand, they have to go in front of a judge.  The judge determines their fate. The judge determines if they get deported or not...which is why the detention facilities exist in the first place, to hold people before they go in front of a judge.

[psiberzerker]

US Border Patrol, in far Southern Arizona.  Yep, they did a LITTLE of what everyone is pissed about, but they only separated the adults & kids if there was obvious signs of abuse.

Yes, that WAS true, but now ICE can camp out at children's schools, children they can't deport because they're natural born citizens, and grab their parents when they come to pick them up.  In fact, they can and do detain children, at school, and call their parents.  For the crime of being born in the US.  

That's Evil.  Pure unadulterated evil.  If a civilian kidnapped children, and called their parents to extort what they wanted out of them, that would be a Felony, and they would be pursued by the FBI.  However, since the FBI, and ICE are both DHS, they don't have to prosecute them for kidnapping children.  Then inprisoning them in homes, because their parents are deported.  Tearing apart families, and getting the kids used to Institutionalization, so they'll transition to a life of being imprisoned more easily.

This is criminalizing people, Americans, from birth, because of the color of their skin.  they have never once used the same tactic for Undocumented Aliens from Canada.

I haven't looked - was the Border Patrol rolled into ICE, or is it still separate?

Again, if they were serious about protecting the Borders from human traficking, and terrorists, they could make the USDBP part of the Department of Defense, just like the Coast Guard.  The President could write (Or dictate for someone who understands how government works) an Executive order, as Commander in Chief, without having to run it by Congress first.  Around Nogales, they could scramble A-10 Thunderbolt IIs out of Davis Monthan in 3 Months.  I know this, because I have a relative (Brother in law) who worked Fuel Systems, on A-10s, at DMAFB.

But instead of these:

 

We're still talking about a wall, because Goldfinger only knows how to embezzle from Real Estate schemes right out of the Lex Luthor playbook.

[IrishGirl]

What special kind of fucking moron uses the extremists to define the 'normal'? 

I think she hangs out with extreme leftists, or at least used to.  But yeah, most folks have never even hears of the International Socialist Organization or the Workers World Party.  These are fringe groups and outside of college campuses they really don't matter much.

They and the Trans community pretty much control campus.  People that were in Bernie or Bust.

And you either have to be trans, or  on the far left, or you're going to get attacked.

Why I switched schools.

[psiberzerker]

They and the Trans community pretty much control campus.  People that were in Bernie or Bust.

And you either have to be trans, or  on the far left, or you're going to get attacked.

Why I switched schools.

Really.  There's a school, anywhere in America, with a powerful enough Transgender community they took over, and "Pretty much control campus?"  (And I haven't heard about this Coup, constantly as it happpened, from all the leaders in the Transgender community I know personally.)

Never mind where, HOW?  How did any of us ever get that much power in the current political climate, when we can't even have NAMES without petitioning the government for years?

This is outright paranoia.  Transphobia.  A textbook Conspiracy Theory, "THEM!"  If we had that kind of Power, we'd have some rights bye now.

[Lois]

@ IrishGirl:

Cadre groups like RCP and ISO have been around college campuses forever.  Their #1 priority is to recruit new members, not to actually change anything. Ignore them.  Once you graduate you will never see them again.

And yeah, as Psi says: There's actually a campus where the Trans folks are running everything?  Are they hiring and firing professors, too?

Stick to your studies.  Campus politics is a distraction.