Trump, Coal Jobs, and the 2016 election

[IrishGirl]

One has to wonder what happened to the buggy makers, and the poor whip makers when cars came about. When the market moves to cheaper labor, cheaper manufacturing, cheaper supplies or even more efficient production, there isn’t anything to do but to change.

Coal became too expensive, and other things are more cost effective. Businesses are not required to provide jobs per se. They are required to be profitable.

Well when cars came out they were produced domestically...not exported abroad to sweatshops.

[Katiebee]

You just really do not understand. Obama could do nothing, the Republicans refused to help.
The work programs FDR PUT INTO EFFECT WOULD NEVER BE APPROVED BY TODAYS REPUBLICAN HOUSE AND Senate.

[Katiebee]

And do you really think that the Republicans would support FREE job training? How naïve are you?

[psiberzerker]

Would it be possible to at least mention white supremacists, some time this page?  I mean it says "Back in topic" quoted at the top of the page.  All this about coal miners, and their daughters, jobs et-cetera are fascinating, but we do still have white supremacists marching the streets, in jack-boots, and threatening people of color.

(I know you don't like the N word, but if they have a schwastica on their flag, I'm going to call them Nazis.)

[Athos_131]

...if you are unable to admit racism played a part in Trump getting elected, to the point you hi-jack threads over it.

#Resist

[IrishGirl]

You just really do not understand. Obama could do nothing, the Republicans refused to help.
The work programs FDR PUT INTO EFFECT WOULD NEVER BE APPROVED BY TODAYS REPUBLICAN HOUSE AND Senate.

I do understand that he could do NOTHING.  As I remember--and I was young so don't quote me on this--but the RNC shut down the government twice (?) over a grudge?

But that didn't stop the removal of those jobs. And when it comes to elections, does it matter?  Especially when one side is posting dumb hick memes and calling you a deplorable...and the other is CLAIMING that they support you.

Now, when it comes down to it, those states have such a low population that no one is going to give them any job aid in any significant way.

But the jobs were taken away.  The left mocked them, the right didn't and those are, what, four states worth of electoral votes?

Who would you vote for?  The side that won't help you and is insulting you?  Or the side that won't help you but is at least understanding towards you?

And that eventually adds up.

[psiberzerker]

the RNC shut down the government twice (?) over a grudge?

But that didn't stop the removal of those jobs

Okay, then why blame Obama for the removal of those jobs, instead of Congress (Not the RNC, which wasn't even conviened at the time, because it wasn't an Election year) preventing him from doing His job, (Like hiring a Supreme Court Justice) because he was a black man?  Also, while you're at it, maybe at some point address Racism in America, in a thread about White Supremacists.

If you want to talk about Jobs, then start a thread about jobs.  Or at least connect the dots between White Supremacists/Racism, and the loss of jobs.  Or, IDK, the white supremacist who's catchphrase is "You're fired."

[IrishGirl]

the RNC shut down the government twice (?) over a grudge?

But that didn't stop the removal of those jobs

Okay, then why blame Obama for the removal of those jobs, instead of Congress (Not the RNC, which wasn't even conviened at the time, because it wasn't an Election year) preventing him from doing His job, (Like hiring a Supreme Court Justice) because he was a black man?  Also, while you're at it, maybe at some point address Racism in America, in a thread about White Supremacists.

If you want to talk about Jobs, then start a thread about jobs.  Or at least connect the dots between White Supremacists/Racism, and the loss of jobs.  Or, IDK, the white supremacist who's catchphrase is "You're fired."

Are you calling me a racist and a white supremacist again?

[psiberzerker]

Are you calling me a racist and a white supremacist again?

No.

At least I got you to say White Supremacist in a thread about White Supremacists.  If that's triggering for you, then why don't you avoid the thread, along with the entire subject?  

Now, back on topic.  Please.

[IrishGirl]

Are you calling me a racist and a white supremacist again?

No.

At least I got you to say White Supremacist in a thread about White Supremacists.  If that's triggering for you, then why don't you avoid the thread, along with the entire subject?  

Now, back on topic.  Please.

Good, than in the future, try not to make those implications when making you're point.

[psiberzerker]

Good, than in the future, try not to make those implications when making you're point.

In the future?  I have never "Made the implication" once that you are a White Supremacist, 1.

And 2:  Look up at the title of the fucking thread:

You might be a White Supremacist If...

 

 

If you're looking for somewhere to find someone, to accuse of making that implication, and thereby trigger yourself again, you couldn't find a better place than a topic devoted to the implication that you might be a White Supremacist.

Now, what in the immortal fuck do Jobs have to do with that?  Connect the dots, or start your own safe place, with no implication that you might be a white supremacist.  Your call.

If I didn't know any better, I'd think you like the idea of being accused of that.  Since you jump on every opportunity to imagine it.

[Katiebee]

Irishgirl, I will say this one last time. When a company decides it is no longer going to use coal, and go to something like natural gas, there is nothing the president can do. As for the mining companies, if they don’t have the demand then they are not going to hire, and they are going to lay off. Coal mining has been declining for the last two decades and a half, if not longer.

[IrishGirl]

Irishgirl, I will say this one last time. When a company decides it is no longer going to use coal, and go to something like natural gas, there is nothing the president can do. As for the mining companies, if they don’t have the demand then they are not going to hire, and they are going to lay off. Coal mining has been declining for the last two decades and a half, if not longer.

I think you're sort of missing the point.  Maybe I wasn't clear. 

We are talking about the perceptions of the people living in poverty in the areas where coal was the best paying job available.  And how the unemployment, the political stance against the source of employment, then the reactions towards those that lost their jobs, coupled with the disparaging remarks many make about them, galvanizes the populace to take a side, in this case the side of the people that are

1) not mocking them
2) giving them someone to blame
3) blaming the people that are telling them they have privilege while they are unemployed.

Which results in the growth that this thread is about

You seem to ONLY be focused on a singular aspect of that whole.

Is that clearer?

[psiberzerker]

Which results in the growth that this thread is about

You seem to ONLY be focused on a singular aspect of that whole.

Is that clearer?

Uhm, once again, this thread is about White Supremacists, not Jobs.

You seem to be the ONLY person that is focussed on the singular aspect of Coal Miners in West Virginia losing their jobs, to the utter exclusion of mentioning White Supremacists, as a whole.

How can I make this any clearer?  THIS.  THREAD.  Is Not About:  1, Growth.  2,  Jobs.  3, Coal...

It's about White Supremacists, in America.  

[Jed_]

Good thing there are no scorecards kept on derailing threads.

[IrishGirl]

Good thing there are no scorecards kept on derailing threads.

I was talking causality, Jed.  As in this the reason we see a growing movement here...but I think people are less concerned with the why it's happening and more concerned with "punch a fascist"

Which is a shame, because without knowing the illness you're just addressing the symptoms.

[Lois]

Coal jobs are dying.  It's a good idea to encourage renewable energy in areas that coal used to be king.  Perhaps some solar panel manufacturing plants?  Right now nearly all solar panels are manufactured in China.

In Arizona we have at least two coal fired power plants.  One is slated to be shut down.  It is on the Navajo reservation and literally the only good paying job available on the entire reservation.  These people will need something to replace these vital jobs.

Vote for candidates that would support real solutions to problems like this.

[psiberzerker]

It's a good idea to encourage renewable energy in areas that coal used to be king.  Perhaps some solar panel manufacturing plants?  Right now nearly all solar panels are manufactured in China.

Okay, renewable energy is a lot more complex than Fossil Fuels, because it's not 1 Energy, and the supply fluctuates with most ambient/natural sources.  Also, Photovoltaics use all kinds of fun stuff like Cadmium, which can be gotten from Coal.  Again, we're boiling something like Infrastructure, and resource distribution to oversimplified buzzwords like "Jobs," and "Energy."

Now, "Jobs."  Are more complex than being bandied abut in political rhetoric like a finite, or renewable resource.  It's an Economy, you don't just dig jobs out of the ground, and hand them out to people.  There's qualified jobs, and then there's Desirable jobs.  Coal mining is Toxic.  Not speaking retorically, here.  It's literally toxic, if you like I can list several crippling painful and eventually lethal illnesses associated with it doing with human beings.  So, that gets us into the anti-socialist policies of the "Your Fired" administration witholding Healthcare.

Why are Coal jobs so important?  Do you think Donald Trump has even the slightest frame of reference with anyone who has worked a sift in a coal mine?  No, he does not.  He's got about as much understanding of that job as Derek fucking Zoolander, only with worse taste.  I don't trust anyone who gold plates his apartment, and talks about creating jobs with the catch phrase "You're fired."  Just like anyone who endorses the seductive technique of "Grab them by the pussy" around young models, or men who publically sexually harrass their daughters with the "Family Values" party.  Any more than we should trust a man who imported Eastern European Wives, twice, when he's talking about the immigration "problem" in The Immigration Nation.

He's not even a politician.  He's a con man, and anyone who agrees with the fantasy of his proposed policies being anything but a self serving lies to protect his criminal Enterprise Corruption, and Embezzlement, I'm not going to bother trying to explain something as complex as Coal Mining to.

Put down the coolaid, and wait for your neurons to kick in again.  You've been lied to.  We're not buying it from you either.

[psiberzerker]

Also, what you're talking about is Socialism.  Not "Socialism," textbook, Marx, and Engles, idealized OG Socialism.  Seize the means of production, by rallying the proletariat (Working Class) to prop up the Bougesoise.  SOCIALISM.  

I know that's a bad word, politically in America, but he's a fucking Oligarc, with business ties, to the fucking Russian Mafia.  He calls it "Draining the Swamp," and sells it to the fucking mosquitos, so he can build a Golf Course in there.

Without using Mexican labor.  Somehow.  I'm not sure how that's supposed to work.  So far, all he's done to "Create jobs" is to mass deport all the people that did the jobs you don't want to.

[IrishGirl]

If we are going to be changing the title to include all the factors that breed white supremacy, it's going to be a long title.

Might as well through NAFTA, CAFTA, outsourcing, and poverty in the rust belt into the title as well.

The fact is that, like in Weimar Republic, there are situations that breed these things, and when the situations go unaddressed, hostile organizations like Neo-Nazis and the KKK grow, and when the situation goes unaddressed and the people living in poverty that are looking for a cause, looking for a reason, get mocked it grows even more.

And that is what's happening.

However it seems that you want to separate the cause from the product, and then argue that the things that are causing it are anything BUT the reason this is happening.  All that is going to do is make the situation grow worse.