Trump, Coal Jobs, and the 2016 election

[Jed_]

. . . . if you think white privilege doesn’t exist.

. . . . if you think reverse racism is a worse problem than racism.

I have a friend that replied to me on this via PM on RU.  I consider her a lot smarter than I am, so I got her permission to post her reply to me here to add to the discussion:

OK, Daddy, here's what you said:

. . . . if you think white privilege doesn’t exist.

. . . . if you think reverse racism is a worse problem than racism.

Now....here is the problem with that:

There are certain things in cities that don't exist in rural rust belt areas:

1) Public Transportation
2) Easily accessible community colleges
3) Free clinics
4) Diversity in the job market

And those are just a few. BUT, those things matter, and they matter a lot.  They matter a LOT more than anybody realizes.

They matter because we have a lot of small towns between the coasts that were based around factories that went abroad...because of BOTH parties.

And when those factories closed, the opportunity for a decent living was lost in that area and it created poverty that is WORSE than in the cities...but safer.

In those areas, life is harder and that is mainly because accessing things is harder due to distance alone.  And they are mainly white.

Hell, even in Lowell, which is relatively close, it is fucked beyond the poverty line because the factories left.

And we have people on the left saying "admit that you have white privilege or you are racist" AND they are doing it in the same breath saying "We have to address the urban poor."

BUT, the Urban poor has MORE than the rural poor...and they are mainly Minorities.  

Not only do they have more, they have more access.  And not only do they have more access, but they have government programs in place to allow them the opportunity to take advantage of that access if they only choose to.  And those programs go from academia to the private sector in hiring policies.  

But those programs don't apply to the rural poor who are largely white.

And people are saying "if you think white privilege doesn’t exist you're racist."

But when you are in that poverty and don't have that access, you don't feel privileged, you feel FAR from privileged and you still see all these people in the city that have the access and the privilege that you can only dream of, that you wish you had...

...and people are calling you "racist" for wanting that same access, for not feeling privileged in your depressed as hell dieing factory town.

So...when they hear the left saying that...

They also hear the right saying "We understand you have it rough."

And that difference adds up to 262 electoral votes.

So you have 262 Electoral Votes and the Left is telling those 262 votes that are living in poverty in rural areas to "admit they have white privilege and are racist otherwise we call you a racist."

And the right is telling those 262 Electoral Votes "we understand you are living in poverty and don't have the access that the urban poor has."

Those 262 Electoral votes are going to the person that didn't insult them.

Hillary called them all Deplorable for NOT supporting her.  Trump told those 262 Electoral votes that he understands why they are fucked.

THAT is the election.  262 Electoral votes of the rural poor is an election victory.

And you are telling them that they have a privilege because they are white DESPITE their poverty...and that "reverse racism isn't a problem" despite their lack of access due to geography...THAT equals 262 votes for Trump.

And that is because here in Boston where that privilege exists, there are only 11 electoral votes.  In California where it exists there are 55.  In New York there are 29.  In Illinois there are 20.  New Jersey there are 14.  Where you live and white privilege is real there are 10.

That is 119 Electoral votes.

So now you have 262 Votes against 119

All the swing states in the country can't cover that spread.

And a LOT of that gap is because people on the left keep telling poor white people living in poverty to admit how privileged they are based on skin color.  When they should be recognizing why they are screwed.

And what is worse is, the Left is looking at that enormous spread, 262 v 119 and saying "we need to do away with the electoral college because it let Trump win."

And that gets translated into "Now we want to take away your vote...and you still have to admit how privileged you are."  It translates to "we only want the coasts and maybe Chicago to have a say in the presidency."  It translates to "Fuck your problems, we are going to make them so we NEVER have to address them."

And that turns into:  You want to call us this, fine, we are going to embrace it because fuck you.

So now you have a growing militant right to match the militant left.  And that is serious trouble.

So, just food for thought, Daddy.

The bottom line is, the "grey area" is the safe zone when talking politics and race.

As far as why she calls me Daddy, that happens when she’s in a certain mood.

[Athos_131]

...if you are trying now to justify why you voted for Dolt45.

Anyone who voted for Trump supported blatant racism, misogynism and ablism among other things.

#Resist

P.S.  Boston is pretty racist itself.

[Katiebee]

@Jed

She is correct with some of what she is saying. However, what is not said is that the GOP platform is not aimed at those areas either, not economically.

Those under supported rural populations forgot that GOP economic policies are oriented mostly toward highly industrialized and capitalized areas. The social policies are also oriented toward a segment that has no interest in supporting the poor.

However, the current GOP strategy is oriented around racial identity, specifically those who are afraid. It is the same thing that happened with the large influxes of immigrants in the 1800’s. Only then they were Italian and Irish. And Catholic.

[IrishGirl]

...if you are trying now to justify why you voted for Dolt45.

Anyone who voted for Trump supported blatant racism, misogynism and ablism among other things.

#Resist

P.S.  Boston is pretty racist itself.

Well there you go, that is kind of what it breaks down to isn't it?

There are 262 electoral votes that you are willing to alienate rather than address the overall problem:

Poverty caused by class warfare perpetrated through the exportation of Union jobs to nations where sweatshops are legal.

And let me guess, you use words like "Progressive" and maybe even "Socialist" to describe yourself...while you refuse to address a 2 serious issues that real Progressives and real Socialists care about on a fundamental level:
1) Class warfare
2) Poverty

And rather than address these issues you are willing to demonize the working class actually suffering from them to the point where you will gladly hand over 262 votes and an election to the Right rather than admit that the problem is greater than simple "racism" and "misogyny"

Possibly you are even one of those people that refused to vote for Hillary over some BS ever-changing litmus test, then got emotionally distraught that the candidate that you voted AGAINST lost...if you live in a blue state that "protest" against Hillary didn't matter...if you live in a state like Texas that has growing diversity that faux "protest" vote kept it red.  And if you live in a swing state, well congrats, you helped Trump win because you were possibly "too idealistic and leftist to support Hillary."

In any case, it is EXACTLY the attitude that you displayed right here that are keeping those 262 Electoral votes red.

In otherwords: "Congratulations, you're the problem."

[IrishGirl]

@Jed

She is correct with some of what she is saying. However, what is not said is that the GOP platform is not aimed at those areas either, not economically.

Those under supported rural populations forgot that GOP economic policies are oriented mostly toward highly industrialized and capitalized areas. The social policies are also oriented toward a segment that has no interest in supporting the poor.

However, the current GOP strategy is oriented around racial identity, specifically those who are afraid. It is the same thing that happened with the large influxes of immigrants in the 1800’s. Only then they were Italian and Irish. And Catholic.

It was pointed out that the GOP platform is NOT aimed at those areas economically when it was stated that they were fucked by BOTH parties.

The bottom line is, the platforms do NOT have to be economically aimed at that 262 electoral vote problem to win.  At least not when one side is openly antagonistic towards the people in those states.

The GOP doesn't have to say "we are going to address this economic problem and help you" when the left, antifa, this entire thread, Athos_131, college campuses, and so many others are being openly antagonistic towards them.

That faux progressive antagonism means that all the GOP has to do is not insult them, not antagonize them to win their vote.  BOTH sides are screwing them, they are regular people they see that, but the left is insulting them.  

So when BOTH sides screw you and the Left insults you...how are you going to vote?  Well, Libertarian is a Republican vote anyway and that side is ignoring you WITHOUT the insults and antagonistic rhetoric.

[Jed_]

I told you she’s smarter than I am. . . . .

And, she has caused me to breach certain silos of thought.

[Athos_131]

In otherwords: "Congratulations, you're the problem."

I voted for "Not Trump."  This shit is your fault.

#Resist

[Athos_131]

I understand that you're entirely single minded about Trump, but if this is meant as a response to the post above yours, it's really reductionist and asinine.

People were stupid enough to believe a racist and misogynistic con-artist would make their lives better and not be in it for his own personal greed.

#Resist

[IrishGirl]

In otherwords: "Congratulations, you're the problem."

I voted for "Not Trump."  This shit is your fault.

#Resist

Oh, so now you are assuming who I voted for?

Why don't you tell him who I voted for Jed?  You're paying attention and this way he's not hearing it from me.

But your post raises a question:  Who, exactly is "NOT Trump?"

Because Stien was "Not Trump"
McMullin was "Not Trump"
Castle was "Not Trump"
Johnson was "Not Trump"
A Sanders write-in was "Not Trump"

There were a few "Not Trumps" out there that were also votes AGAINST Hillary, and...looking at the numbers and looking at past elections involving Perot and Nader...those "Not Trump" votes mattered when it came to Trump NOT winning.

[Athos_131]

It's really not his place to divulge your information.

#Resist

[Jed_]

My gorgeous petite Irish slut worked diligently for the Bernie Sanders campaign in the Boston area.  When he failed to win the nomination for the Democratic Party, she voted for Hillary Clinton in the general election.  The reason she did that is she is not stupid.

As far as me replying, she had to catch a bus.

[wayne3218]

I wanted desperately to vote for Thrump.
But due to circumstances beyond my control I wasn’t allowed too.

[Jed_]

She’s got me thinking differently, that in no way has me wavering from my core values.

[IrishGirl]

It's really not his place to divulge your information.

#Resist

Well you have already proven yourself a reactionary, and one that cares more about insulting the 262 electoral votes that lost the election than actually achieving any good.

And given your response to my actually addressing the problem rather than throwing gasoline on the fire like you prefer...I thought it apt to have someone else speak for me for verification purposes for when you inevitably double down...

...AND...you haven't answered which "NOT TRUMP" you voted for...leading me to believe it was a vote AGAINST Hillary...who you are happy lost but upset that it allowed Trump to win.  Am I close there?

[Katiebee]

@Jed

She is correct with some of what she is saying. However, what is not said is that the GOP platform is not aimed at those areas either, not economically.

Those under supported rural populations forgot that GOP economic policies are oriented mostly toward highly industrialized and capitalized areas. The social policies are also oriented toward a segment that has no interest in supporting the poor.

However, the current GOP strategy is oriented around racial identity, specifically those who are afraid. It is the same thing that happened with the large influxes of immigrants in the 1800’s. Only then they were Italian and Irish. And Catholic.

It was pointed out that the GOP platform is NOT aimed at those areas economically when it was stated that they were fucked by BOTH parties.

The bottom line is, the platforms do NOT have to be economically aimed at that 262 electoral vote problem to win.  At least not when one side is openly antagonistic towards the people in those states.

The GOP doesn't have to say "we are going to address this economic problem and help you" when the left, antifa, this entire thread, Athos_131, college campuses, and so many others are being openly antagonistic towards them.

That faux progressive antagonism means that all the GOP has to do is not insult them, not antagonize them to win their vote.  BOTH sides are screwing them, they are regular people they see that, but the left is insulting them.  

So when BOTH sides screw you and the Left insults you...how are you going to vote?  Well, Libertarian is a Republican vote anyway and that side is ignoring you WITHOUT the insults and antagonistic rhetoric.

you are losing sight of the fact that the rural areas have been voting against Democratic candidates for a very long time. They have been following the social conservative platform of the GOP. In other words they are voting against their economic interests and for their Social conservative ideals.

That means they are lukewarm toward the Democratic candidates. There is no support for the economic policies that could be there, and now the right has started vigerously eroding the economic support programs that are aimed at rural America. It isn’t about Progressive antagonism toward the rural areas, they are cutting off their noses to spite their faces. And now they have issues because no one is serving their economic issues.

Basically they are reaping what they sowed.

[Athos_131]

I voted for Hillary.

The personal experiences I have had after moving from Chicago to Phoenix would lead me to believe Trump didn't win this state based on economic anxiety.

#Resist

[IrishGirl]

I voted for Hillary.

The personal experiences I have had after moving from Chicago to Phoenix would lead me to believe Trump didn't win this state based on economic anxiety.

#Resist

A good point was made, do you want to try and FIX things for 2020?

Because it seems that you have

1) No real plan except yell and cry

and

2) And are openly hostile to any and all conclusions that are not yell and cry.

So, we'll change gears, what is your plan to turn those 262 votes from red to blue?  Does it sound something like:

"Call them all fascists and demand that they agree with you until they agree with you?"

Sorry man, this is a Republic, like it or not you can't force people at gunpoint to vote for you, you have to use the powers of persuasion.

That being said...do you have a plan?

[Athos_131]

For fuck's sake, it's been 18 months and by all appearances you've been nigh-on obsessed with the subject, how do you still have such a "baby's first election" understanding of what happened?

The guy won for more reasons than anyone has the time to compile. Not everyone who doesn't think exactly like you is a moronic shitheel and acting as such just makes you look like one.

More to the point, whether you agree with the analysis offered by IrishGirl or not, it's at least thoughtful and constructive. If you really want a different result in 2020 these are the kind of ideas that need to be explored. If you just want to luxuriate in a vague feeling of moral superiority for 8 years, keep posting your little memes, articles and vitriolic one-liners, but do me a favour and drop the pretence that you give a shit about what's happening.

Feel free to believe I don't care that a piece of garbage represents my country.

Furthermore, no one is forcing you to read my posts.

#Resist

[IrishGirl]

@Jed

She is correct with some of what she is saying. However, what is not said is that the GOP platform is not aimed at those areas either, not economically.

Those under supported rural populations forgot that GOP economic policies are oriented mostly toward highly industrialized and capitalized areas. The social policies are also oriented toward a segment that has no interest in supporting the poor.

However, the current GOP strategy is oriented around racial identity, specifically those who are afraid. It is the same thing that happened with the large influxes of immigrants in the 1800’s. Only then they were Italian and Irish. And Catholic.

It was pointed out that the GOP platform is NOT aimed at those areas economically when it was stated that they were fucked by BOTH parties.

The bottom line is, the platforms do NOT have to be economically aimed at that 262 electoral vote problem to win.  At least not when one side is openly antagonistic towards the people in those states.

The GOP doesn't have to say "we are going to address this economic problem and help you" when the left, antifa, this entire thread, Athos_131, college campuses, and so many others are being openly antagonistic towards them.

That faux progressive antagonism means that all the GOP has to do is not insult them, not antagonize them to win their vote.  BOTH sides are screwing them, they are regular people they see that, but the left is insulting them.  

So when BOTH sides screw you and the Left insults you...how are you going to vote?  Well, Libertarian is a Republican vote anyway and that side is ignoring you WITHOUT the insults and antagonistic rhetoric.

you are losing sight of the fact that the rural areas have been voting against Democratic candidates for a very long time. They have been following the social conservative platform of the GOP. In other words they are voting against their economic interests and for their Social conservative ideals.

That means they are lukewarm toward the Democratic candidates. There is no support for the economic policies that could be there, and now the right has started vigerously eroding the economic support programs that are aimed at rural America. It isn’t about Progressive antagonism toward the rural areas, they are cutting off their noses to spite their faces. And now they have issues because no one is serving their economic issues.

Basically they are reaping what they sowed.

Its more than that, environmental politics have a lot to do with it too.

We might think its great to stop Climate Change, but in a lot of those areas that translates into "We are going to take away one of the only decent jobs that are left."

It is ONE issue, but as Chris Matthews pointed out, Bobby Kennedy And Carter were the last POTUS candidates to NOT antagonize those states.

And, as I said, BOTH sides screwed them over.

So it all breaks down to WHICH side treats them with less respect and the left has lost that a long time ago.

[IrishGirl]

For fuck's sake, it's been 18 months and by all appearances you've been nigh-on obsessed with the subject, how do you still have such a "baby's first election" understanding of what happened?

The guy won for more reasons than anyone has the time to compile. Not everyone who doesn't think exactly like you is a moronic shitheel and acting as such just makes you look like one.

More to the point, whether you agree with the analysis offered by IrishGirl or not, it's at least thoughtful and constructive. If you really want a different result in 2020 these are the kind of ideas that need to be explored. If you just want to luxuriate in a vague feeling of moral superiority for 8 years, keep posting your little memes, articles and vitriolic one-liners, but do me a favour and drop the pretence that you give a shit about what's happening.

Feel free to believe I don't care that a piece of garbage represents my country.

Furthermore, no one is forcing you to read my posts.

#Resist

It's not that we really think that you don't care.

it's more that you are making it clear that you would rather yell, cry, post memes, maybe even hit a fascist, or hit someone that just doesn't 100% agree with you that you label a fascist...or hit someone that DOES agree with you but challenges you that you label as a fascist than actually try to win.

Either way, it doesn't look like you want real results