Antifa Riot In Portland, Ore.

[psiberzerker]

If a KKK member walks up behind me and I am at a pro trump event you said you would associate me as racist.

No, you would assume that.  I never said anything to that effect, nor even implied it.  Do you want to be called a racist?

Just because you have a picture of it doesn’t mean I am with them or share their stupidity.

I never called you a racist.  Now, what are you doing at a Trump rally?

[Gunnerman19]

I believe you said associate. Assume is kinda the same thing.
Suppose I wanted to hear the President speak. it doesn’t matter if it’s me or someone else tho.

[psiberzerker]

I believe you said associate.

Nope!

[Jed_]

I would agree with you on that group for sure. Look at that...common ground. If a KKK member walks up behind me and I am at a pro trump event you said you would associate me as racist. Just because you have a picture of it doesn’t mean I am with them or share their stupidity.

Perhaps, but just like Trump you clearly have a far bigger problem with Antifa than you do with the Proud Boys or KKK.

I’d prefer that Antifa counter protest with zero violence, but they’re not the ones that are ideologically reprehensible and showing up with ARs.

[Lois]

Many things have been learned since Charlottesville.  These were never peacefull protestors: it was their goal to provoke violence by counter protesters such as Antifa.  Once the violence started, using vehicles to drive into protesters to cause carnage was discussed, and that's what happened in one instance causing the death of Heather Heyer.

And why else would these people "peacefully" protest in places like Berkeley and Portland? Again the goal was to provoke violence. Leadership of the Proud Boys even admitted the goal was to force Portland to waste money protecting them.

To be certain Antifa is very vocal in protesting facsists, but they've never killed or shot anyone.  The same cannot be said for the facsists.  Heather Heyer was murdered and there have been shootings in Portland.  Hell, a friend of mine who is a Buddist Monk was severely beaten near Portland by skinheads and he was not even part of any demonstration.

The Proud Boys, KKK, NAZI's etc are hate groups.  Their objective is violence.  Got it?

[psiberzerker]

These were never peacefull protestors: it was their goal to provoke violence by counter protesters such as Antifa.  Once the violence started, using vehicles to drive into protesters to cause carnage was discussed, and that's what happened in one instance causing the death of Heather Heyer.

I'm just amazed that this has to be stated.  That people point to Antifa wearing gas-masks to protect themsleves from anti-riot chemical weapons, when the NAZIs showed up with ballistic visors, stahlhelms, riot shields, and truncheons.



These "Peaceful Protestors."  Oh, but Antifa are "Terrorists" for counter-protesing that.  "Look, she's got a bike lock!"

Antifa caused a riot, when the Nazis showed up dressed for one.  Right, what's a cubit?

[Gunnerman19]

Jed-you’re a fucking idiot if that’s what you’ve gathered!

[Gunnerman19]

Any person who hides is up to no good. Think that’s already been stated right.

[psiberzerker]

Any person who hides is up to no good. Think that’s already been stated right.

Yeah, it's been said, but that's not logic there.  "Up to no good."  Okay, I see your adage, and raise you that anyone that "Peaceably Assembles" in Riot Gear, coordinated with the rest of their gang, to form a Testudo didn't show up for a Peaceful protest, they showed up for a Riot.

Just because they're no longer hiding doesn't mean that they're not up to no good.

[Gunnerman19]

Lois-hahaha “got it” haha. Because you say it makes it true I’m sure. You are lost! You have blinders on. Yes the KKK, nazi, some proud boys and hell even a percentage of the human population. What about the people who don’t “associate” themselves at all with any group. You are focused of the proud boys because they are against communism and think being white, black, Asian, gay, lesbian, etc...is okay and to be proud of who you are. When it comes to a male female relationship they see the family structure is important. They encourage fathers to stay with their wife and children. They encourage the male and female of the relationship to stay together. They have been instigated by Antifa trash and they have acted. I’m not a part of them but as long as they are being peaceful and defending themselves I have no problem. If they start destroying property and stopping people from being able to move around the cities like your beloved Antifa then I will have a problem with them as well. Antifa doesn’t want to hear another prospective and will throw shit and take cheap shots like chicken shits until finally the person with the other view gets tired of it. You can blind yourself from the truth with your garbage and babel on about shit but that doesn’t change the truth.

[Gunnerman19]

Psiberzerker- Would you say that with how unpopular the KKK is and those so called nazi are that just maybe they have had shit thrown at them. I not defending them or anyone else, what I am saying is it all started somewhere and that is not worth looking at. Not into what came first, chicken or the egg talk because it leads nowhere. What we see now is people on both sides yet mostly Antifa hiding. Not just with riot gear but with masks and bandannas and hiding behind banners and on and on and on. Are you against the proud boys, KKK, “nazi”, and anyone else that has a controversial view from speaking in public?

[psiberzerker]

Psiberzerker- Would you say that with how unpopular the KKK is and those so called nazi are that just maybe they have had shit thrown at them?

IDFK, if you brazenly march wearing the colors of our enemies with the American Flag, then I suppose that I don't feel all that bad if they get egged, rotten tomatoes, or even feces thrown at them.  They brought shields, they can take it.  I just have to roll my eyes when they play the victim, or Faux Newbs try to paint them as such.

 

What we see now is people on both sides yet mostly Antifa hiding. Not just with riot gear but with masks and bandannas and hiding behind banners and on and on and on.

So?  My friends in Antifa, and Anonymous say (Up to you whether to believe them) that the main reason for hiding their identities is so that they don't have to fear Retribution.  Also, the bandanas help a little, if they can't afford full respirators, for when they inevitably get maced, or tear gassed, again.  Many of them I met when they were Occupying PORTLAND.  I know people, who were at that "Riot."  I met them while I was building a Homeless Camp on the corner of Burnside, and 3rd.



I'm in that photo, and so is my shelter.  The joke was that they were keeping the police, and media "Occupied."  We had the entire squatter camp set up for a week before they even asked us any questions, because it was just assumed that we had something to do with OPDX.

So no.  I can say, with some surety that they're a bunch of hippies, hipsters, and vegans.  Not "Terrorists."

Are you against the proud boys, KKK, “nazi”, and anyone else that has a controversial view from speaking in public?

No, I'm against them provoking a Riot, and terror attacks like spree shootings, and vehicular homicide rampages.  Sticks, and Stones.

They didn't come to speak.  They literally brought sticks, and stones to their riots.

[MissBarbara]

I haven't the time or energy to read through all the replies here in detail but with a quick scan it's clear that there is a lot of whataboutism going on. Just because Antifa are ideologically opposed to some fairly dreadful groups doesn't make their actions and methods justified. They are responsible for violence and hatred and there appears to be little effort to root out those elements from the movement, or even encouragement of those elements, insofar as they are an organisation at all.

Precisely (and I haven't read most of the posts either).

The main, and obvious, point is that Antifa represents a tiny subset of the American left, just as the white supremacists and neo-Nazis represent a tiny subset of the American right. Neither is representative of the whole group, and neither the left nor the right should be tarred with the actions of a tiny subset.

More to the point, and precisely for this reason, the Left should be firm and round in their condemnation of the actions undertaken by Antifa. Agreement with, or acceptance of, Antifa's theoretical goals does not include agreement with or acceptance of their means.




 

[Jed_]

I’d prefer that Antifa counter protest with zero violence

But what do I know, I’m an idiot.

[psiberzerker]

They are responsible for violence and hatred and there appears to be little effort to root out those elements from the movement, or even encouragement of those elements, insofar as they are an organisation at all.

This isn't "Whataboutism," but you don't really have to encourage people to hate the Klan, Nazi cosplayers, and the Arayan Nation.  Do you contend that if not for Antifa, Americans wouldn't hate these groups?

Good, then they accomplished one of their goals.  I admit that the White Supremacists want violence, and Antifa plays into their hands.  One of the reasons why I'm not a part of Antifa.  I don't agree with giving the Militant racists what they obviously want, and playing into their narrative, but they won't listen to me on that point.

Still doesn't make them "Terrorists."  Does WBC protesting the funerals for children killed at Sandy Hook constitute "Terrorism?"  Do they have to hide their faces for you to see them as terrorists?

This whole narrative is "What about Antifa?"  Sure, there's racists marching the streets in riot gear, and church groups protesting the funerals of murdered school children,  but what about those Antifa terrorists?

[Gunnerman19]

Jed- honestly have some thicker skin. I would agree with the part that you picked out. We can call that common ground but that’s not why I said “you’re a fucking idiot if that’s what you gathered.
Same is true with any group left or right. I have no problem with Antifa protesting (was stated earlier), they have the same rights as the kkk and every other American. They are not the innocent victims psiberzerker seems to paint them as. Also as said before the energy would be better used for making the changes not fighting like morons and stopping everyday business.

[Jed_]

This whole narrative is "What about Antifa?"

That’s essentially the ‘whataboutism’.  Mention white supremacists, and Trump and his deplorables like the OP immediately say ‘what about Antifa?’ as a distraction.  I can condemn violence by anyone, and I do.  But if it comes to being forced to man the barricades in the war Trump is trying to start and I have to pick a side, I’ll stand shoulder to shoulder with Antifa with zero qualms about being on the right side.

It won’t come to that, at least that’s what I hope.

[psiberzerker]

Jed- honestly have some thicker skin, but that’s not why I said “you’re a fucking idiot if that’s what you gathered.

You're an asshole.  So am I, and I think I know Jed well enough to include him in this crowd.

We're assholes, we don't need "Thicker skin."  That's not a point you're making there.  It's also not how you find "Common ground."

They are not the innocent victims psiberzerker seems to paint them as.

I call them Activist, hippies, hipsters, and vegans, not "Victims."  The children, and their families at Sandy Hook?  I'd call those Victims.  Antifa is fighting BACK.  Not standing around, and playing the victim. 

[Lois]

I would never equate Antifa to the KKK, NAZI's or Proud boys.  Antifa has never killed anyone.

[psiberzerker]

Antifa has never killed anyone.

They don't have any political power, either.