Separating children from their parents

[Katiebee]

Perhaps you should consult with Goebbels.

[Lois]

@ Joan:

Then why the sudden surge in Central American asylum seekers now?  Economically these countries are doing the same as they always have.  The difference is the upsurge in gang violence in these countries.

It's best to do background checks, and if they pass and have a sponsor, let them in on a temporary visa.  Then we assist these countries in restoring order and cracking down on the gangs.  Once things get better the visas can be cancelled and we send them back home.

As for a woman who disappeared taking her daughter without the knowledge of said husband, I suspect she was fleeing abuse.  Why else would she risk such a dangerous journey?  Would you return a woman and child to her abuser?

[Katiebee]

Lois, what a silly question. Of course Joan would, basing her decision totally upon a black and white determination of the law. SHe crossed into the US illegally, ergo, she’s a criminal and must be expelled. No humanity or compassion must interfere.

[joan1984]

  Her abuser?  Hubby is a boat captain in some Honduran seaside city, three more kids at home, told Daily Mail (the only press to bother to interview him) that wifey took the baby and bolted without saying goodbye, no him getting to kiss his daughter goodbye. Seems wifey was deported from US in 2013, too... so more to this story, methinks.

  She told him she wants to live The American Dream. He says things in Honduras are ok, not great, but ok. Will see why Obama kicked her out, and what her criminal history is from Jeh Johnson's files, what obligations she had and skipped on when she left here a few years ago, started over in Honduras, or back with hubby, whatever. Cute little girl, hope she gets a framed Time magazine to hang up, maybe on the boat, once they all get back to a normal Honduran life in the near future.

  Belize is not far from Honduras, a nice place lots of Americans go on Vacation and would listen to wifey's sad tale, if there is one, and is not a 2000 mile walk for the two year old.  If she was legal, here, and decided to take the kid on a 2000 mile hike with paid criminal guides (she paid $6000), so she could break the law someplace, the US would take her child away from her, no doubt, for abuse. This is a economic migrant, two time deportee (soon to be), with some issues we don't need.

[ChrisHailey]

I understand why you don't like the picture. It was powerful as hell.

There's always a backstory to every picture. And someone who is a heartless fuck can always massage that backstory into some kind of evil tale. Remember how we heard from the right-wing spin machine (aka Russian trolls) that this or that of the Parkland kids failed a class, or couldn't get into the university they wanted? Some even said they were "paid actors," for God's sake.

But, again, if this was all fake news, why did your brave leader, the right-wing's Great White Hope, who is your champion against PC and the fake news MSM--why did he cave like a lily-livered chickenshit? Seriously, I'd love to know how that makes a Trumpista feel. The hurt must be intense, if it can ever get past the cacophony of the cognitive dissonance.

[Athos_131]

#Resist

[joan1984]

  Good that you recognize that the picture does not reflect reality, and of course you endorse, will not bother or ask anyone to bother, using imagery and this Fake News pic, as the motto is: By any means necessary.

  Correct? 

  Let us look at another iconic photograph, the Tiananmen Square one and consider how, if you found out the man standing before the tank, was actually with the Tank Division of the Chinese army, and was simply directing traffic.

  Very similar now, not only the 2 year old who was not ever separated from her parents, well separated from her Mom by the U.S. (she was separated from her Dad by her Mom, who paid thousands of dollars to criminal coyote smugglers to bring her to our border). The Mom was Deported by the U.S. in 2013, and so is not afraid of breaking laws, and precedent by trying anew.

  Hopefully, Mom will be ejected forthwith, once processing mores to the point where she matches the deportee exactly, and for whatever reason President Obama found her unsuitable then, she is rejected anew. Perhaps she should do time for trying after being Deported once, but unlikely unless she lied on the current application, or other statements made to authorities.

  When two U.S. Presidents endorse her deportation anew, will be interesting to see the reaction of the KB faithful.

  When you saw those pictures of kids in cages, wrapped in foil, seeming so wrong, were you at all of a different mind to learn those were Fake News, not at all what is happening now, but what happened when the prophet ran the show in 2015?

  Jeh Johnson stated he looked for publicity then, so as to use as a deterrent the fact that aliens claiming asylum, or breaking laws with kids in tow, were not simply passing thru to the interior, with only a 'summons' to bind them. Publicity was hard to find in 2015, because... well... Obama.

  MSM gave him a pass, and Republicans were too dense, ineffective, and complicit in wanting cheap labor, and having no effective sway with the media could not stop him. Hell, this week Republicans have shown how inept they remain, in trying to push through simply awful legislation to welcome six million more illegals, and all the cousins and whoever they may muster as future invaders, and still they failed.

  Imagine if they actually sought what they promised during their election cycle or in the election advertising. Sad, and the fight remains, for Constitutional government. One at a time, time after time, the fight continues.

  MAGA, KAG.

[Athos_131]

You're upset by a magazine cover.



Snowflakes, indeed.

#Resist

[Athos_131]

You know who bankrolled the purchase of Time Magazine?

The Koch brothers.



#Resist

[Lois]

Just because the crying child pictured was not separated form her parents does not change the fact that children ARE crying because they were separated from their parents.  It does not make this fact a lie.

The truth is that this policy is also extremely costly: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/20/cost-us-immigrant-detention-trump-zero-tolerance-tents-cages.html

Much cheaper would be releasing such immigrants after processing with ankle monitors.  The court appearance rate for immigrants using ankle monitors was between 90-97 percent and they cost about $1,430 per year per client.

@ Joan:  We can argue about individual cases all you want, but the vast majority of asylum seekers believe their lives are at stake.  Leaving one's home with a child in tow is a desperate measure that flows from a desperate  situation.  Did you know that the murder rate in El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala is higher that in most war zones?

You can read more about the situation here:
http://theconversation.com/why-is-el-salvador-so-dangerous-4-essential-reads-89904

I have a simple solution:  Be kind.  We should offer our hospitality to asylum seekers and not treat them like criminals.  Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.   And ignore the Cheeto in Chief. He is a negative influence.

[joan1984]

  Who decides when a citizen of another nation is justified to seek asylum in some other nation? Well, in actuality, the nation who grants such asylum, or not, makes that decision.

  The number of asylum cases and people admitted by the U.S. is a limited number, whatever it may be, and people who cannot demonstrate a worthy status will be declined. You decide who you may support financially, welcome into your property, to sleep in your home, or not.

  Those who enter the U.S. illegally, and upon being caught, present themself as an asylum seeker, need to be treated as the criminals they demonstrate to be first, and rejected as the first choice, for consideration of asylum. Go try that pitch to some other Nation, folks.

  This wave, like the last mid-term wave, is a manufactured crisis, organized by leftists who seek destruction of the United States. Whatever malady poor folks find themselves in at home, in no way equates to an entitlement to come here.

[Athos_131]

I've never seen anyone try so hard to be openly racist.

#Resist

[Athos_131]

Activists vandalize billboard to blast ICE: ‘We make kids disappear’

#Resist

[Lois]

One quarter of all children in the state of Texas* have at least one foreign born parent. When these children turn 18 who do you think they will vote for?

There is no dastardly plan by leftists. The GOP is self destructing on their own. As for America, we will be all the better for it.

* Taken from US birth certificate information, meaning these children are citizens.

[ChrisHailey]

Just because the crying child pictured was not separated form her parents does not change the fact that children ARE crying because they were separated from their parents.  It does not make this fact a lie.

The weird thing about this latest Russian trollbot spin on that picture is that it was obvious that this particular scene wasn't of the child already separated from her parents. Her parents were standing right there, getting arrested by ICE agents.

So the Russian trolls are just pointing out the obvious and trying to pretend it's some sort of scandal.

Another thing that is obvious in the picture is that the kid is scared. Scared out of her mind.

That's the point. That's what we're doing to children, in the name of "fighting" an entirely fake immigration crisis.

[ChrisHailey]

  This wave, like the last mid-term wave, is a manufactured crisis, organized by leftists who seek destruction of the United States.

And your chickenshit leader totally caved like a coward.

That must hurt. I feel for ya. :/

[Lois]

Who decides when a citizen of another nation is justified to seek asylum in some other nation? Well, in actuality, the nation who grants such asylum, or not, makes that decision.

You are correct Joan, and that is why we have laws regarding asylum seekers.  So why is the Trump administration ignoring the direction provided by these laws?

I should also point out that a record high of 75% believe that immigration is good for the United States.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/235793/record-high-americans-say-immigration-good-thing.aspx

So why is Trump ignoring the will of the American People?
 

[joan1984]

 Trump is enforcing immigration law, which provides a 6 month sentence for criminal border crossers, for a first offense. Prior Deportees and prior illegal alien border crossers commit a Felony, with longer time possible.

Lawbreakers are arrested, and upon arrest they law breaker it taken into custody by the U.S. Marshal Service.

  Children are not incarcerated in adult prisons with law breakers, unless there is some special circumstance of law breaking by the particular child. The fact that President Obama enforced the law, the same law, with the same result, gives testimony to the existence of the law for criminals prosecuted who cross borders without a visa.

  That President Obama's Administration at some point stopped enforcing the law with criminal prosecution is not relevant to what this Administration does regarding law enforcement.

  The time a minor may be held by Federal authorities, as established by law, and upheld, strengthened by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, has been set at twenty days. That clock begins when a minor alien is positively identified, processed for criminal history in their origination nation and any criminal US history, vetted for other crimes, gang membership and other as needed.

  With a known identity, AND with a suitable legal relative, arrangements may be made for release to such a suitable relative, just as arrangements could be made for a foster home. It all depends upon the individual case.

  Separation of the family is not the goal, but it is the law at present when the adult has broken the law and is facing prosecution for same, so incarcerated.

  I have not seen extensive discussion regarding Bail/Bond, or which Bonding agents may be interested in taking assurance via property as is common for Bail Bonding companies, when the criminal has no community history that s/he will not simply flee.  Perhaps relatives of such criminals have community ties to support bonding of criminals prior to their court hearings. We shall see.

  By the way, as you know, there is no difference by race involved for criminal prosecution of law breakers, nor for holding of asylum seekers to the U.S., as to how each is processed.

[Lois]

 Trump is enforcing immigration law, which provides a 6 month sentence for criminal border crossers, for a first offense. Prior Deportees and prior illegal alien border crossers commit a Felony, with longer time possible.

The actual law says "up to a 6 month sentence."  I remind you that crossing the border illegally is a misdemeanor, like most traffic violations.  Now imagine if that the Judge was mandated by some idiot to pursue the maximum sentence for first time violations and you ended up serving 6 months in prison.  Stupid right?

It is stupid in this event as well.  It is also incredibly expensive to incarcerate people. 

So much for the GOP being the party of fiscal responsibility.

[joan1984]

  Criminals who are first time crossers, without other crimes, often plead guilty and are sentenced to time served, gathered with their offspring if there are any, and Deported. They are not welcomed to live in the U.S. or work here, have no visa at all, and this should be a short process.

  Leftist lawyers encourage the criminal to file an asylum claim, which delays the process, while the criminal remains in custody. The alien minors who are proven to be offspring need to be housed until the phony asylum case is heard, deliberated, lawyers hired and paid by the U.S. Taxpayer, the alien minors held safely until a reputable citizen or legal alien, who qualified as a safe guardian, can be located, and arrangements made to ship the minor alien there, awaiting deportation, or awaiting an asylum acceptance for the criminal alien.

  Those who do not unlawfully enter, but comply with the minimum, arrive at a designated Port Of Entry, have a different path, a legal path to follow.