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Separating children from their parents

Lois · 8557

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Offline Lois

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on: June 03, 2018, 08:49:34 AM
Supposedly the current policy of the Trump regime is to separate  the children from their parents if the parents cross into the country illegally.

However, this is not really the case.  If people come to the border and request asylum and they are permitted to cross.  This is not entering the U.S. illegally. There are US and international laws concerning refugees and asylum seekers.  And yet these people are also being separated from their children.  The children are being sent into foster care.

There are more and more stories about parents being released from custody pending a hearing on their status and their children are not being returned to them.

How is this not a crime and a huge human rights violation?

This policy is wrong, period!
« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 07:38:17 PM by Lois »



Offline Katiebee

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Reply #1 on: June 03, 2018, 09:06:44 AM
It’s not a crime if the president does it.

This is what you get when you put an oaf, at best, as POTUS.
Right now the declared values of conservatives, and the GOP are homered in the breach, not the observance of them.


There are three kinds of people in the world. Those who can count, and those who can't.


_priapism

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Reply #2 on: June 03, 2018, 10:50:46 AM
From the Associated Press:

TRUMP: "Democrats mistakenly tweet 2014 pictures from Obama's term showing children from the Border in steel cages. They thought it was recent pictures in order to make us look bad, but backfires." - tweet Tuesday.

THE FACTS: He is correct about widespread misrepresentation of the photos on Twitter.
The photos, taken by AP, were from 2014, during the Obama administration, but were presented by liberal activists as if they showed the effects of Trump's immigration policy now. The photos were taken at a center run by the Customs and Border Protection Agency in Nogales, Arizona. One photo shows two unidentified female detainees sleeping in a holding cell. It's not clear that many prominent Democrats spread the photos, from a 2016 Arizona Republic story, though some did.

Democrat Antonio Villaraigosa, former Los Angeles mayor now running for governor, tweeted that he was: "Speechless. This is not who we are as a nation." Jon Favreau, ex-speechwriter for Obama, tweeted: "This is happening right now." They and others deleted their tweets when they realized the mistake.
___
JIM CARREY, actor: "1500 innocent children ripped from their mothers' arms at our border. Lost in Trump's 'system'. - tweet May 27.

THE FACTS: This didn't happen. Many Trump critics, Carrey among them, misrepresented the fate of nearly 1,500 minors who came to the border - without their parents - and were transferred by U.S. authorities to sponsors in the country.

The Health and Human Services Department followed up with such children by calling their households to check on them late last year, getting information on the whereabouts of most, officials said. But they could not account for 1,475 of them, in part because many sponsors didn't respond to the calls.

On that basis, Trump critics are calling the children "lost." But in that round of calls, the Trump administration actually had a slightly better rate of confirming such children's circumstances than the Obama administration did in 2016, according to an inspector general's report - 86 percent versus 85 percent.

The episode with the unaccompanied children and the 2014 photos distracted from what is actually happening. Under a Trump policy to enforce criminal charges against people crossing the border illegally with few or no previous offenses, separation of parents from children is bound to become more common, and that trend may have started.

A Customs and Border Protection official told lawmakers that 658 children had been separated from their parents at the border from May 6 to May 19, after border agents began referring every illegal entry to criminal prosecutors. This is in addition to hundreds more who were estimated to have been removed from their parents at the border since October.



Offline joan1984

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Reply #3 on: June 03, 2018, 03:39:04 PM
  An American Citizen, caught by authorities breaking a law, may be removed from society upon arrest, and should that Citizen be sentenced to jail, remains removed from society for some time.

  Minor children with that Citizen are separated from the adult, upon arrest or detention, and in the case of Citizens, are turned over to CPS for tending. Jail time is served by a Citizen, separated from their family and society, every day and this is 'normal'.

  Illegal entrants who cross our Nation's borders are breaking the law. Thus a similar treatment is 'normal' for such law breakers, separation from society and family until their case may be resolved.

  Illegal entrant minors who cross borders are also breaking laws, albeit influenced by Adult relatives at times, and they are separated from the other criminal aliens, and from society writ large, while their cases may be resolved.

  There is a legal process to be followed, and those who put themselves into jeopardy by ignoring the legal process, face certain consequences. Hopefully such consequences will deter the law breaking, as word travels to would be lawbreakers prior to the illegal entry to the United States.

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_priapism

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Reply #4 on: June 03, 2018, 03:51:00 PM


Illegal entrant minors who cross borders are also breaking laws, albeit influenced by Adult relatives at times, and they are separated from the other criminal aliens, and from society writ large, while their cases may be resolved.



There is no hell.  For which you should be grateful.




Offline Lois

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Reply #5 on: June 03, 2018, 07:47:54 PM
Crossing into the country illegally is a misdemeanor, just like most traffic violations.  So should children be separated from parents every time either party is caught jaywalking?

And thank you for your post Merv, and I was aware of those misrepresentations.  However, my narrative is based on reliable news sources and none of the erroneous ones mentioned in your article.

Asylum seekers crossing the border and presenting themselves to the authorities as required under US and international law are having their children taken from them.

I do hope that all of these children are reunited with their parents.  It would be a scandal and a human rights violation if these children became lost in the system.  It would be far safer just to keep them together.  I also have concerns for the damage being done to the children by this separation.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 10:52:49 PM by Lois »



ChirpingGirl

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Reply #6 on: June 04, 2018, 12:33:58 AM


Illegal entrant minors who cross borders are also breaking laws, albeit influenced by Adult relatives at times, and they are separated from the other criminal aliens, and from society writ large, while their cases may be resolved.



There is no hell.  For which you should be grateful.



Evidently you've never been through a Midwestern Summer.  :roll:



Offline Lois

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Reply #7 on: June 04, 2018, 12:36:48 AM
What makes you think a Texas summer is any better?  :emot_laughing:



Offline Athos_131

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Reply #8 on: June 04, 2018, 12:48:35 AM


Illegal entrant minors who cross borders are also breaking laws, albeit influenced by Adult relatives at times, and they are separated from the other criminal aliens, and from society writ large, while their cases may be resolved.



There is no hell.  For which you should be grateful.



What about the karma train?

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ChirpingGirl

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Reply #9 on: June 04, 2018, 12:51:09 AM
What makes you think a Texas summer is any better?  :emot_laughing:

I don't know, but the humidity here alone during the summer is horrendous.  :roll:



Offline Katiebee

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Reply #10 on: June 04, 2018, 04:27:16 AM
103 in the shade isn’t any better

There are three kinds of people in the world. Those who can count, and those who can't.


Offline Lois

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Reply #11 on: June 04, 2018, 06:27:49 AM
It reached 107F here, but very dry (6% humidity).  I've always heard Washington DC had the most miserable and hot summers.



Offline Jed_

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Reply #12 on: June 04, 2018, 06:32:09 AM
It reached 107F here, but very dry (6% humidity).  I've always heard Washington DC had the most miserable and hot summers.

Today in DC it was in the high 50’s at times and pouring rain.  I was at a Peruvian food festival at the University of the District of Columbia.  It was damn good food, and good drink.



Offline Athos_131

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Reply #13 on: June 05, 2018, 07:06:10 PM
AP FACT CHECK: Trump blames Dems for border separations

Quote
WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump is falsely claiming that “bad legislation passed by the Democrats” has forced his administration to separate children from their families at the border, even though no such law exists.

TRUMP’S TWEET

Trump tweeted Tuesday: “Separating families at the Border is the fault of bad legislation passed by the Democrats. Border Security laws should be changed but the Dems can’t get their act together! Started the Wall.”

THE FACTS

No law mandates that parents must be separated from their children at the border, and it’s not a policy Democrats have pushed or can change alone as the minority in Congress.

Children are probably being separated from the parents at the border at an accelerated rate because of a new “zero tolerance policy” being implemented by Trump’s own administration. Announced April 6 by Attorney General Jeff Sessions, the policy directs authorities to prosecute all instances of illegal border crossings, even against people with few or no previous offenses.

Administration officials are quick to note that Sessions’ policy makes no mention of separating families. That is correct. But under U.S. protocol, if parents are jailed, their children are separated from them because the children aren’t charged with a crime.

So while separating families might not have been the administration’s intention, it is an obvious consequence of the policy.

According to U.S. Customs and Border Protection, more than 650 children were separated from parents at the border during a two-week period in May.

The U.N. human rights office has called on the Trump administration to “immediately halt” the separations, saying “detention is never in the best interests of the child and always constitutes a child rights violation.”

Trump might be referring to a 2008 law passed unanimously by Congress and signed into law by Republican President George W. Bush, but that legislation is focused on children who illegally cross the border without a guardian, known as unaccompanied minors. That law calls for releasing children into the “least restrictive setting” — often to family or a government-run shelter — while their cases slowly wind through immigration court.

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Offline Lois

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Reply #14 on: June 16, 2018, 06:56:56 AM
Yes Athos, Trump is lying once again.  And Jeff Sessions is using his twisted concept of Christianity as justification.  Sorry Jeff, but Christianity is first and foremost about forgiveness, not about twisting the law to your satisfaction. NEVER EVER has the committing of a misdemeanor offence been a justification for separating families.  And it gets worse:

U.S. Placed Immigrant Children With Traffickers, Report Says

WASHINGTON — The Department of Health and Human Services placed more than a dozen immigrant children in the custody of human traffickers after it failed to conduct background checks of caregivers, according to a Senate report released on Thursday.

Examining how the federal agency processes minors who arrive at the border without a guardian, lawmakers said they found that it had not followed basic practices of child welfare agencies, like making home visits.

The Senate’s Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations opened its inquiry after law enforcement officials uncovered a human trafficking ring in Marion, Ohio, last year. At least six children were lured to the United States from Guatemala with the promise of a better life, then were made to work on egg farms. The children, as young as 14, had been in federal custody before being entrusted to the traffickers.

“It is intolerable that human trafficking — modern-day slavery — could occur in our own backyard,” said Senator Rob Portman, Republican of Ohio and the chairman of the subcommittee. “But what makes the Marion cases even more alarming is that a U.S. government agency was responsible for delivering some of the victims into the hands of their abusers.”

In addition to the Marion cases, the investigation found evidence that 13 other children had been trafficked after officials handed them over to adults who were supposed to care for them during their immigration proceedings. An additional 15 cases exhibited some signs of trafficking.

The report also said that it was unclear how many of the approximately 90,000 children the agency had placed in the past two years fell prey to traffickers, including sex traffickers, because it does not keep track of such cases.

“Whatever your views on immigration policy, everyone can agree that the administration has a responsibility to ensure the safety of the migrant kids that have entered government custody until their immigration court date,” Mr. Portman said.

In the fall of 2013, thousands of unaccompanied children began showing up at the southern border. Most risked abuse by traffickers and detention by law enforcement to escape dire problems like gang violence and poverty in Central America.

As detention centers struggled to keep up with the influx, the Department of Health and Human Services began placing children in the custody of sponsors who could help them while their immigration cases were reviewed. Many children who did not have relatives in the United States were placed in a system resembling foster care.

But officials at times did not examine whether an adult who claimed to be a relative actually was, relying on the word of parents, who, in some cases, went along with the traffickers to pay off smuggling debts.

Responding to the report, the Department of Health and Human Services said it had taken measures to strengthen its system, collecting information to subject potential sponsors and additional caregivers in a household to criminal background checks.

Mark Greenberg, the agency’s acting assistant secretary of the Administration for Children and Families, said it had bolstered other screening procedures and increased resources for minors.

“We are mindful of our responsibilities to these children and are continually looking for ways to strengthen our safeguards,” he said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/29/us/politics/us-placed-immigrant-children-with-traffickers-report-says.html



_priapism

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Reply #15 on: June 16, 2018, 08:15:11 AM
It’s a test of the public’s will.  Greater atrocities ahead.



Offline herschel

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Reply #16 on: June 16, 2018, 02:25:56 PM
When it comes to atrocity, nobody does it better than a sovereign government, which is allowed to screw everything up with complete impunity.



Offline Athos_131

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Reply #17 on: June 16, 2018, 02:51:02 PM
It’s a test of the public’s will.  Greater atrocities ahead.

You make it sound as if Trump and his flunkies have ever cared what the majority of people think.

#Resist

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_priapism

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Reply #18 on: June 16, 2018, 03:32:02 PM
It’s a test of the public’s will.  Greater atrocities ahead.

You make it sound as if Trump and his flunkies have ever cared what the majority of people think.

#Resist

Apologies if that was your impression.  I’ve just noticed that they tend to test the waters, then rush in, if Congress or the judiciary doesn’t stop them.



Offline Athos_131

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Reply #19 on: June 16, 2018, 03:53:32 PM
Your sarcasm detector must be on the fritz.

#Resist

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