#MeToo’ism and the age of sexual victimization.

[Jed_]

Oh, and our avatars are meant to be taken literally.

If they were, a lot of people around here would have to answer for theirs as well.

But I am a demon that ravages girls.

[MissBarbara]

Oh, and our avatars are meant to be taken literally.

If they were, a lot of people around here would have to answer for theirs as well.

But I am a demon that ravages girls.

And my name begins with a B...

(And I'd bet Lois dances a mean can-can.)

[_priapism]

With whom do you argue? With a woman, of course. Not with a friend, because he accepted all your defects the moment he found you. Besides, woman is mother... have we forgotten? — Marcello Mastroianni

[Katiebee]

Oh, and our avatars are meant to be taken literally.

If they were, a lot of people around here would have to answer for theirs as well.

But I am a demon that ravages girls.

And my name begins with a B...

(And I'd bet Lois dances a mean can-can.)

And I can use a broadsword.

[Athos_131]

Simone Biles Reveals She Too Was Sexually Abused By Larry Nassar

#Resist

[JulesVern]

Sure thing, and the system isnt racist either, so minorities get a fair shot in our court system too. Hahahaha. Do you also believe in unicorns and fairies?

If the present system worked, 25% of women in our society wouldnt be victims of sexual assault, while almost no one gets convicted of it. So obviously its not just my opinion that the present system isnt working.

However, my opinion is that we should err on the other side for awhile and see if that doesnt have a more positive effect on the problem. Maybe if men were more afraid of being accused, we would be more careful of our actions around women. Seems like a good thing to me.

The system definitely isn't perfect, no system is, but your solution... to essentially convict people based solely on an accusation to make a point... is absolutely not the answer. Anyone ... and I mean anyone ... you, me, and anyone else you can name, would be just as vulnerable to such a system. It would be like living in the USSR or Nazi Germany where an accusation of disloyalty would get you arrested and thrown in prison. Do you really want to live in such an environment?

[JulesVern]

Here's a really neat idea (Gentlemen)........
"How about just being polite and showing some respect toward us"......
(If we want to sleep with you...we will tell you ).

Love,
Liz

The funny thing is that could so completely turned around. In your scenario, a woman may well approach a man, tell him she'd like to go to sleep with him (your words), and get accused of sexual harassment if the guy weren't interested. See how easy that was?

In reality, I'd love a society where it worked that way. Someone (male or female) could politely ask someone else if they had any interest. The person being asked would be free to say yes or no without any issues. However, the world doesn't work that way. For one thing, many people (both men and women) enjoy being seduced or seducing others. Should that not be allowed?

One more thing, I once worked with a woman who years later I found wanted to go out with me but was so subtle about it that I missed all her signals. Admittedly I'm not good at reading those signals, and combined with her upbringing, which had taught her not to be too forward, we never even went out on a date. So, yes, I personally love it when women approach me.

[Athos_131]

Congressman Combating Harassment Settled His Own Misconduct Case

Representative Patrick Meehan, a Pennsylvania Republican who has taken a leading role in fighting sexual harassment in Congress, used thousands of dollars in taxpayer money to settle his own misconduct complaint after a former aide accused him last year of making unwanted romantic overtures to her, according to several people familiar with the settlement.

A married father of three, Mr. Meehan, 62, had long expressed interest in the personal life of the aide, who was decades younger and had regarded the congressman as a father figure, according to three people who worked with the office and four others with whom she discussed her tenure there.

But after the woman became involved in a serious relationship with someone outside the office last year, Mr. Meehan professed his romantic desires for her — first in person, and then in a handwritten letter — and he grew hostile when she did not reciprocate, the people familiar with her time in the office said.

Life in the office became untenable, so she initiated the complaint process, started working from home and ultimately left the job. She later reached a confidential agreement with Mr. Meehan’s office that included a settlement for an undisclosed amount to be paid from Mr. Meehan’s congressional office fund.

On Saturday, John Elizandro, Mr. Meehan’s communications director, issued a statement saying that the congressman “denies these allegations” and “has always treated his colleagues, male and female, with the utmost respect and professionalism.”

Mr. Meehan called on the former aide to waive the confidentiality agreement in the settlement “to ensure a full and open airing of all the facts.” Mr. Elizandro did not respond to follow-up questions about why Mr. Meehan had agreed to the settlement and the confidentiality provision if the allegations were false.

Alexis Ronickher, a lawyer for the former aide, called Mr. Meehan’s statement “a desperate effort to preserve his career.” She said the congressman had demanded confidentiality in the first place, and was now asking her client to waive it knowing that she would not agree because she “prizes her privacy above all else.”

After this article was published online, AshLee Strong, a spokeswoman for the House speaker, Paul D. Ryan, said that Mr. Meehan was being removed immediately from the House Ethics Committee, where he has helped investigate sexual misconduct claims, and that the panel would investigate the allegations against him. In addition, Mr. Ryan told Mr. Meehan that he should repay the taxpayer funds, Ms. Strong said.

Sexual misconduct accusations against powerful men across a range of industries in recent months have prompted a national conversation about gender dynamics in the workplace, and the inadequacy of support systems for victims. In Congress, several lawmakers have left office or announced their retirements in recent months over sexual harassment claims.

Still, Congress remains a workplace where victims say they have few effective avenues for recourse.

Mr. Meehan’s case sheds new light on secretive congressional processes for handling such complaints, which advocates say are slanted to favor abusers, allowing them to use the vast resources of the federal government to intimidate, isolate and silence their victims.

As a member of the Ethics Committee, Mr. Meehan was tasked with being a part of the solution. The panel has initiated investigations into sexual misconduct claims against at least four congressmen in recent months. Two have resigned: Trent Franks, Republican of Arizona, and John Conyers Jr., Democrat of Michigan. The other two, Blake Farenthold, Republican of Texas, and Ruben Kihuen, a freshman Democrat from Nevada, remain in office but have said they will not seek re-election.

Mr. Meehan has been pushing for protections for domestic violence victims since his time as a local prosecutor. In Congress, he has sponsored legislation mandating the reporting of sexual violence, and he is a member of a bipartisan congressional task force to end such violence.

This account is based on interviews with 10 people, including friends and former colleagues of the former aide and others who worked around the office. The New York Times is not naming the former aide, who followed the recommended procedures for reporting harassment but came away from the experience feeling traumatized, according to several people with whom she shared her feelings.

Mr. Meehan’s family was close to the former aide, according to friends and colleagues, and she was regarded as an integral employee in the office, according to people who worked in or around the office. They said Mr. Meehan seemed to favor her over other employees, so much so that others saw his favoritism as unprofessional. He expressed interest in her personal relationships outside the office, then seemed to become jealous in April when word spread through the office about the aide’s boyfriend. After Mr. Meehan’s professions of attraction and subsequent hostility, the woman filed a complaint with the congressional Office of Compliance over the summer, alleging sexual harassment.

The handling of that complaint — which included an aggressive pushback by representatives from Mr. Meehan’s office and congressional lawyers, who suggested she had misinterpreted the congressman’s behavior — demoralized the aide. It led to her estrangement from her colleagues, and isolation from friends, family and her boyfriend, according to the people in whom she confided. It set her back financially and professionally, as she continued to pay legal costs associated with the complaint even after leaving her job in Mr. Meehan’s office and struggling to find a new one. She moved back in with her parents and ultimately decided to start a new life abroad.

Mr. Meehan was represented in this process by two officials from his congressional office and two lawyers for the House’s office of employment counsel.

After counseling and mediation sessions mandated by the Office of Compliance, the sides reached an agreement that included a settlement and a strict nondisclosure agreement, according to people familiar with the process.

The exact amount of the settlement could not be determined, partly because Mr. Meehan’s office paid it from a congressional office fund that allows such payments to be disguised as salary and reported months after they were made. But people familiar with the payout said it was thousands of dollars.

Several of those interviewed traced the woman’s difficulties in Mr. Meehan’s office to 2016, when a senior male member of the office staff professed his romantic attraction to the woman. She reported the advance to Mr. Meehan, and the senior employee left his job after reaching an agreement with Mr. Meehan, according to a person with direct knowledge of the episode who worked in the office. Not long after, Mr. Meehan signaled his own romantic desires to the woman.

The aide’s dealings with the Office of Compliance left her feeling as if the settlement was not worth the emotional distress the process had caused, said the friends and former colleagues. All spoke to The Times on the condition of anonymity because they were concerned that, if lawyers for Mr. Meehan or the House accused the woman of violating the nondisclosure agreement, her settlement could be withdrawn and her career prospects further damaged.

#Resist

[Terryhx]

lots of liberal snowflakes in this world .. ill be glad when spring gets here and they all melt . i watched the golden globes and heard all of the timesup and metoo crap , all the while wearing a dress that had half their tits hanging out ... what would happen if a guy had half his dick hanging out ? women expose themselves because they know men like to look . no other reason . be honest with yourselves ladies

[Katiebee]

Be honest with yourself. You have very little insight into cultures, very little understanding, it would seem of political issues.

Do keep warm.

Winter is coming.

[staci]

lots of liberal snowflakes in this world .. ill be glad when spring gets here and they all melt . i watched the golden globes and heard all of the timesup and metoo crap , all the while wearing a dress that had half their tits hanging out ... what would happen if a guy had half his dick hanging out ? women expose themselves because they know men like to look . no other reason . be honest with yourselves ladies

Depends on which half they have hanging. Women dress for any number of reasons. fashion, occasion, attention, style, self confidence, etc.

Seriously, am glad you posted sir, but since August 26, 2013, is this the best you could do?

[Jed_]

lots of liberal snowflakes in this world .. ill be glad when spring gets here and they all melt . i watched the golden globes and heard all of the timesup and metoo crap , all the while wearing a dress that had half their tits hanging out ... what would happen if a guy had half his dick hanging out ? women expose themselves because they know men like to look . no other reason . be honest with yourselves ladies

What a complete Jackass.

Kudos to both staci and Katiebee for calling him out.

[Athos_131]

lots of liberal snowflakes in this world .. ill be glad when spring gets here and they all melt . i watched the golden globes and heard all of the timesup and metoo crap , all the while wearing a dress that had half their tits hanging out ... what would happen if a guy had half his dick hanging out ? women expose themselves because they know men like to look . no other reason . be honest with yourselves ladies

I feel like piling on.

Go fuck yourself.

#Resist

[JulesVern]

I would just say, as long as what you are looking at is in public view, go ahead and look. But don't feel like you can touch or take or talk down to or any of a number of things that go way beyond looking.

[Lois]

lots of liberal snowflakes in this world .. ill be glad when spring gets here and they all melt . i watched the golden globes and heard all of the timesup and metoo crap , all the while wearing a dress that had half their tits hanging out ... what would happen if a guy had half his dick hanging out ? women expose themselves because they know men like to look . no other reason . be honest with yourselves ladies

I find it interesting that some people do not realize they fit the insult they throw at others. There may be liberal snowflakes around, but you are clearly a conservative snowflake.  You are so easily threatened by women that don't want to be sexually harassed anymore, and you fall back on old ideas that women are "asking for it" because of how they dress.

Women that dress in the context of these awards do so because they are expected to do so.  They are selling themselves to a public that wants to see them in their next movie.  Designers also compete to make outfits that will be worn and NOTICED.

Please step outside your conservative safe-space for a moment and be open to how the world actually works.

[oscarlong]

Sure thing, and the system isnt racist either, so minorities get a fair shot in our court system too. Hahahaha. Do you also believe in unicorns and fairies?

If the present system worked, 25% of women in our society wouldnt be victims of sexual assault, while almost no one gets convicted of it. So obviously its not just my opinion that the present system isnt working.

However, my opinion is that we should err on the other side for awhile and see if that doesnt have a more positive effect on the problem. Maybe if men were more afraid of being accused, we would be more careful of our actions around women. Seems like a good thing to me.

The system definitely isn't perfect, no system is, but your solution... to essentially convict people based solely on an accusation to make a point... is absolutely not the answer. Anyone ... and I mean anyone ... you, me, and anyone else you can name, would be just as vulnerable to such a system. It would be like living in the USSR or Nazi Germany where an accusation of disloyalty would get you arrested and thrown in prison. Do you really want to live in such an environment?

Except that isnt at all what is happening, nor are we in danger of that happening. None of these people are being convicted, and in many cases it still has no effect even after they are called out numerous times. The system presently protects them still. The "court of public opinion" is just that, and we use it for such lofty judgments as restaurants, massage parlors, and...sexual assault.

I am impressed we got to Nazis within just a few posts though. Well done

[Athos_131]

Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg Reflects On The #MeToo Movement: 'It's About Time'

#Resist

[JulesVern]

Except that isnt at all what is happening, nor are we in danger of that happening. None of these people are being convicted, and in many cases it still has no effect even after they are called out numerous times. The system presently protects them still. The "court of public opinion" is just that, and we use it for such lofty judgments as restaurants, massage parlors, and...sexual assault.

I am impressed we got to Nazis within just a few posts though. Well done
[/quote]

Again, you must have actual evidence to get a conviction. That is a matter of law. It is that way to protect the innocent. Does it sometimes protect the guilty? Absolutely. But your quote: "my opinion is that we should err on the other side for awhile" argues that you don't care if some innocent people get swept up in the drive for justice. I personally don't want to live in a society that thinks that is okay.

As for the court of public opinion, saying that it hasn't punished anyone is ridiculous. Many people have lost jobs in the last year based on nothing more than an accusation. Are some of them guilty? I have no doubt about it, but with some of the others that isn't at all clear.

[MissBarbara]

Except that isnt at all what is happening, nor are we in danger of that happening. None of these people are being convicted, and in many cases it still has no effect even after they are called out numerous times. The system presently protects them still. The "court of public opinion" is just that, and we use it for such lofty judgments as restaurants, massage parlors, and...sexual assault.

I am impressed we got to Nazis within just a few posts though. Well done

Again, you must have actual evidence to get a conviction. That is a matter of law. It is that way to protect the innocent. Does it sometimes protect the guilty? Absolutely. But your quote: "my opinion is that we should err on the other side for awhile" argues that you don't care if some innocent people get swept up in the drive for justice. I personally don't want to live in a society that thinks that is okay.

As for the court of public opinion, saying that it hasn't punished anyone is ridiculous. Many people have lost jobs in the last year based on nothing more than an accusation. Are some of them guilty? I have no doubt about it, but with some of the others that isn't at all clear.

You're right, JV: The crux of the problem with #MeToo'ism is the potential for the innocent to be cut down through a mere allegation.

I agree with you that OscarLong's solution -- sweep them all up and condemn them all, and if some innocent people get sucked up, well, they'll just have to deal with it -- is ridiculous.

At the same time, looking at the list of those who have "lost jobs in past year," few if any seem to have lost their jobs based on "nothing more than an accusation." Look at the biggest cases: People late Matt Lauer, Charlie Rose, Louis CK, Kevin Spacey (who succeeded, though his ridiculous "explanation," in setting the Gay Rights movement back more than a decade), and, of course, Harvey Weinstein, lost their jobs due to a preponderance of viable accusations. (And Roy Moore didn't lose his job...)

Add to that, as I mentioned above, the court of public opinion is a "court" only in a strictly metaphorical sense. While I'll admit that the potential does exist for false accusations to lead to someone being unjustly fired (or even unjustly prosecuted), as of yet that hasn't been the case.

Finally, let's swing the topic back to the original discussion. The entire point of the #MeToo movement aims at exposing people in power who abuse their positions of power to force sexual favors, of one type or another, from unwilling victims. It isn't, as some have suggested in this thread, a general campaign against all men, nor a misanthropic effort to expose men for the pigs they are.



 

[Athos_131]

Mark Dantonio And Tom Izzo Refuse To Accept Any Blame In MSU Sexual Assault Scandal

#Resist