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Fuck you GOP, and your child raping Senate candidate, Judge Roy Moore

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Offline Lois

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@ MissB

He admitted to the photo, said it was a stupid thing to do, and apologized.  As for the rehearsal, that is ridiculous. Actors kiss each other other all the time without meaning it because they are actors.  She read it in the script, why didnt she object to it then?

And I'm not saying a pat on the ass is perfectly fine, but that many men don't understand it is offensive.  The women had a responsibility to speak out to him about it. There was no power position he held over them.  They were not going to get fired from their jobs for saying, "Uh, Al ...  It really is not appropriate to place your hand on my ass.  The polite place is my shoulder or keep your hands to your side."

As for the last accusation, I wish there were more details.  Did the woman offended tell her friends what happened right away so they could corroborate it?  

As for why I believe Franken, it's a gut reaction.  Nothing more.  Just a feeling that "Metooism" is running amok.

I've also met people that will lie to get attention.  Sad, but true.  It does happen.

Still, it is probably for the best that Franken resigns.  It proves he has integrity.  If only Trump and Moore would be inspired by his actions of apology and resignation.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 03:55:52 PM by Lois »



Offline MissBarbara

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@ MissB

He admitted to the photo, said it was a stupid thing to do, and apologized.  As for the rehearsal, that is ridiculous. Actors kiss each other other all the time without meaning it because they are actors.  She read it in the script, why didnt she object to it then?

And I'm not saying a pat on the ass is perfectly fine, but that many men don't understand it is offensive.  The women had a responsibility to speak out to him about it. There was no power position he held over them.  They were not going to get fired from their jobs for saying, "Uh, Al ...  It really is not appropriate to place your hand on my ass.  The polite place is my shoulder or keep your hands to your side."

As for the last accusation, I wish there were more details.  Did the woman offended tell her friends what happened right away so they could corroborate it?  

As for why I believe Franken, it's a gut reaction.  Nothing more.  Just a feeling that "Metooism" is running amok.

I've also met people that will lie to get attention.  Sad, but true.  It does happen.

Still, it is probably for the best that Franken resigns.  It proves he has integrity.  If only Trump and Moore would be inspired by his actions of apology and resignation.


@Lois

I agree that #MeToo'ism throws the door wide open to a barrage of false allegations and false accusations, and that it's quite possible that #MeToo'ism is "running amok."

I agree that there is an incomparable degree of difference between what Al Franken (allegedly) did and what Roy Moore (allegedly) did.

I agree that there's a degree of difference between sexual harassment and sexual assault, and between inappropriate behavior and criminal behavior.

I agree that concrete evidence will almost always be absent in these incidents, evidence for both a court of law and (sighs) the "court of public opinion."

I agree that there are people who lie to get attention -- or to promote themselves.

And I agree that Franken's resignation does indeed prove that he has integrity.

At the same time, I can easily see why a woman who is a victim of this type of behavior -- in appropriate or criminal -- would keep it to herself, and not mention it to anyone, not even her friends. Many of the women who leveled accusations against Harvey Weinstein were strong and successful women, and they "kept it to themselves," and only spoke out when it became comfortable for them to do so.

My insistence (and my nitpicking) flows from the fact that it's time to draw a line -- or to firmly clarify the line -- where inappropriate behavior and "acceptability" begins. It's time to give those women, and they are clearly many, who have been victims a sense of comfort and security to overcome their fears or trepidation and speak out. And it's time to create a sense of social intolerance for these behaviors.

Finally, I believe that the "court of public opinion" is completely nonobjective and biassed, with favor shown to a member of one's party and condemnation shown to a member of the other party. Again, there's an incomparable degree of difference between what Al Franken did and what Roy Moore did. Yet if we are to gain a social intolerance for this behavior, then we must be objective and equally condemn Franken's and Moore's behavior. To do otherwise, is hypocritical.






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Offline joan1984

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  So.... now the woman who extended the claims regarding how an Alabama Assistant District Attorney signed her yearbook, and kissed her (I believe that was her claim), admits lying about the yearbook signing.

  Well, she says with some prompting by CNN that she added to the 'signature' with some comments, in other words, the yearbook is no longer valid evidence as it has been claimed to be, and the woman is not to be trusted, altered the "evidence" to make it all look better.

  Seems in fact, she TRACED the signature of Judge Roy Moore, or what she thought to be his signature, from her own Divorce papers, which was the only contact she ever had with Judge Moore.  She claimed not to be aware he was her Divorce Judge. The notation "D.A." are the initials of Judge Roy Moore's clerk at the time her divorce was processed, and the 'signature' may have been a rubber stamp, validated by the clerks initials as 'official' on her divorce papers.

  Not a word from Attorney Gloria Alred as of this morning, and Ms. Alred has yet to produce the yearbook for review by a Certified Handwriting Expert as has been requested.

  Another liar, more Democrat B.S. trying to steal a Senate Seat.

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Offline Northwest

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 So.... now the woman who extended the claims regarding how an Alabama Assistant District Attorney signed her yearbook, and kissed her (I believe that was her claim), admits lying about the yearbook signing.

  Well, she says with some prompting by CNN that she added to the 'signature' with some comments, in other words, the yearbook is no longer valid evidence as it has been claimed to be, and the woman is not to be trusted, altered the "evidence" to make it all look better.

  Seems in fact, she TRACED the signature of Judge Roy Moore, or what she thought to be his signature, from her own Divorce papers, which was the only contact she ever had with Judge Moore.  She claimed not to be aware he was her Divorce Judge. The notation "D.A." are the initials of Judge Roy Moore's clerk at the time her divorce was processed, and the 'signature' may have been a rubber stamp, validated by the clerks initials as 'official' on her divorce papers.

  Not a word from Attorney Gloria Alred as of this morning, and Ms. Alred has yet to produce the yearbook for review by a Certified Handwriting Expert as has been requested.

  Another liar, more Democrat B.S. trying to steal a Senate Seat.


SOURCE, you silly twit.

Edited to include the following: By the way, Joan; I'm calling bullshit. Your statements above are lies, you are a liar, and you can't back them up from any REPUTABLE source. Christ, even Fox's reporting -- distorted and deceitful as it almost certainly is -- doesn't claim anything remotely similar to your assertions above.

Retract it or prove it.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 08:25:00 PM by Northwest »



Offline joan1984

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look it up, was all over news on radio today, ABC station here. Lazy?

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Offline Northwest

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Bullshit. I'm on the record calling you a liar.

Retract it or provide the evidence.



Offline joan1984

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 If you are not readily finding this story, you need to question your own 'go to' sources, people.  I retract nothing, and if you look beyond your comfort zone of positive Obama reporting, and positive Hillary reporting, and Trump is bad reporting, you will find a lot of "news" your usual suspects are not telling you.
=================
I just typed: judge moore accuser lies    into my browser, Google search:
 https://www.google.com/search?q=judge+moore+accuser+lies&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS691US691&oq=judge+moore+accuser+lies&aqs=chrome..69i57.5319j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

this is the result.  Methinks you simply do not wish to find what you do not like.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 08:36:02 PM by joan1984 »

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Offline Katiebee

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No Joan. Fox News reports that the only part of the inscription that was added was the date and location.

Your main accusation appears false.

There are three kinds of people in the world. Those who can count, and those who can't.


Offline Northwest

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I find the story, Joan (if you read my comments carefully that would be obvious). Your comments, however, do not match what I read in the reporting. Here are your comments in full, and the parts I have problems with:

Quote
So.... now the woman who extended the claims regarding how an Alabama Assistant District Attorney signed her yearbook, and kissed her (I believe that was her claim), admits lying about the yearbook signing.

  Well, she says with some prompting by CNN that she added to the 'signature' with some comments, in other words, the yearbook is no longer valid evidence as it has been claimed to be, and the woman is not to be trusted, altered the "evidence" to make it all look better.

  Seems in fact, she TRACED the signature of Judge Roy Moore, or what she thought to be his signature, from her own Divorce papers, which was the only contact she ever had with Judge Moore.  She claimed not to be aware he was her Divorce Judge. The notation "D.A." are the initials of Judge Roy Moore's clerk at the time her divorce was processed, and the 'signature' may have been a rubber stamp, validated by the clerks initials as 'official' on her divorce papers.

  Not a word from Attorney Gloria Alred as of this morning, and Ms. Alred has yet to produce the yearbook for review by a Certified Handwriting Expert as has been requested.

  Another liar, more Democrat B.S. trying to steal a Senate Seat.



1. Show me a source which asserts that she has admitted lying about the yearbook signing.

2. Show me a source that says she was prompted by CNN to falsify data.

3. Show me a source that says she traced the signature of Roy Moore.

4. Show me proof that the only contact she ever had with Roy Moore was during her divorce (how the hell could this even be proved?)

5. Show me a source that says that Moore's clerk's initials are "D.A." (and explain why Moore's clerk would be signing her yearbook).

6. Show me a source that says the signature in her yearbook may have been produced by a rubber stamp.

I don't see backup for any of those assertions in ANY of the several articles I have read on the subject.

Retract your claims, or support them.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 09:18:49 PM by Northwest »



Offline joan1984

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  Seems you folks are not following current political commentary. No problem.

Wait some time and see if your sources bother to report the details.

  The woman in this case said she had never seen the judge since he signed her yearbook.  Seems the judge was the person who decided her divorce.
The Initials D.A. are those of Judge Moore's clerk, and are on her divorce papers exactly as they appear in her 'signed yearbook'.

  As I said, you can remain as informed as you are, or not, is up to you.

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Offline Northwest

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  Seems you folks are not following current political commentary. No problem.

Wait some time and see if your sources bother to report the details.

  The woman in this case said she had never seen the judge since he signed her yearbook.  Seems the judge was the person who decided her divorce.
The Initials D.A. are those of Judge Moore's clerk, and are on her divorce papers exactly as they appear in her 'signed yearbook'.

  As I said, you can remain as informed as you are, or not, is up to you.


I fixed this for you:

Quote
1. I can't find sources to back up my claims, so I simply tried one last  silly attempt at distraction above.

2. Of course I lied.

3. I retract my various unfounded assertions and accusations. According to her lawyer, the woman added something below the signature . That's pretty much all we know. The rest of my comments were fictional.

4. Thank you, Northwest, for helping to keep me honest. It's not something I'm able to accomplish without a lot of help from others. Integrity is a distant land which I hope someday to visit.



Offline Athos_131

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joan1984,

Well done.  You refuted one claim.

Were the THIRTY sources the Washington Post interviewed for the initial story lying in your opinion also?

#Resist
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 10:22:38 PM by Athos_131 »

#BlackLivesMatter
Arrest The Cops Who Killed Breonna Taylor

#BanTheNaziFromKB


Offline Northwest

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Here's a description of what's going on which is a) credible and b) sourced and c) documented. Everything else is just spin. This account is up to date -- it was published ten minutes before I reposted it here.

You want to add something to the story? Provide the source of that information, or expect to get laughed out of the discussion.

I mean if "I heard it somewhere" is good enough without further exploration, then I guess that Joan, in fact, IS a pimply faced young man living in his mom's basement. Either we're evidence based, or we're just telling stories and making it up as we go along.

Gloria Allred holds news conference on Roy Moore accuser's yearbook

Gloria Allred held a news conference Friday to defend Beverly Young Nelson amid accusations about the signature in her yearbook, which some Roy Moore defenders have said does not match his handwriting.

Allred says she sought the opinion of a forensic document expert, Arthur Anthony, to analyze the signature. Allred provided reporters with the report provided by Anthony, with his assessment that the signature in the yearbook is Moore's. Included in the sheaf of papers she presented were examples of Moore signature from when he was a deputy district attorney decades ago.

Nelson said she stands by her accusation against Moore that he preyed on her as a teen.

Nelson, one of several women accusing Alabama Republican senate candidate Roy Moore of sexual misconduct, told ABC's "Good Morning America" on Friday that she amended notes to what she says is Moore's inscription in her high school yearbook.

Nelson came forward in an appearance alongside her attorney, Gloria Allred, in a press conference last month to accuse Moore of assaulting her when she was a teenager and he was 30. Nelson claimed that Moore had attempted to force her to perform a sex act on him when she was in high school, and offered what she said was a note Moore left in her yearbook by way of proof.

The message in question reads: "To a sweeter more beautiful girl I could not say Merry Christmas. Christmas 1977. Love, Roy Moore, D.A. 12-22-77 Olde Hickory House."

Allred said after the first news conference she and Nelson held, she sent a letter to the Senate Committee on Ethics requesting a hearing so that Nelson could testify and called on them to call Moore to testify, and she said at such a hearing, they would turn over the yearbook. "We're very transparent," she said.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gloria-allred-news-conference-on-roy-moore-accusers-yearbook/




Offline Jed_

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While it is possible there has been some embellishment by accusers of both Franken and Moore (and Trump for that matter), not metoo-ism run amok as Lois called it in that other thread, but metoo-ism stretched a bit for more attention.  However by and large, all or at least most of these accusers are very believable, to say otherwise is unconscionable.

What bothers me most about Moore isn’t what people seem to be focusing on.  I do not consider Moore to be a child molestor or a pedophile (OK, hold off on your outrage, until I completely finish).  It wasn’t long ago that many states set the age of consent as low as 14, and many states still have it as low as 16.  Child molestor and pedophile are terms more applicable to victims less than those ages, they imply going after girls with no sexual maturity like 8 or 10.  What Roy Moore is for going after teen girls while in his 30s is a creep.

What is a hundred times worse than creepy Roy Moore going after teen girls is that he targeted the vulnerable and their refusal to comply led to him committing assault against these vulnerable young girls.  And what is a thousand times worse than being a creep is he used the power of his office as a DA to threaten and intimidate these girls.

And besides being a creepy assaulter of vulnerable teen girls who abuses his power, he’s an avowed bigot and all around filthy human being.  He's the poster child for what Hillary Clinton aptly named the basket of deplorables.



Offline Northwest

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More...

Well, Joan, I think we're zeroing in on the mystery sites where you're getting your information. Just between you and me, I wouldn't be in any hurry to admit it either.

No, Roy Moore accuser didn't admit she forged his signature in her yearbook
By Manuela Tobias on Friday, December 8th, 2017 at 3:26 p.m.



A conspiracy-minded website attempted to cast doubt on evidence presented by one of eight women who accused Roy Moore of sexual assault in a misleading headline days ahead of the Alabama Senate race.

"WE CALLED IT! Gloria Allred Accuser **ADMITS** She Tampered With Roy Moore’s Yearbook ‘Signature’ (VIDEO)," the headline reads on The Gateway Pundit. We found similar posts on Breitbart, "Roy Moore Accuser Beverly Nelson Admits She Forged Yearbook," and on the blog Silence is Consent, "Roy Moore accuser admits she forged yearbook inscription."

Beverly Young Nelson accused Roy Moore of groping her when she was 16 years old and he, in his 30s, was the deputy district attorney of Etowah County. As evidence, Nelson presented a note she said Moore wrote in her high school yearbook before the incident took place. Nelson has been represented by celebrity lawyer Gloria Allred.

The inscription reads, "To a sweeter, more beautiful girl I could not say Merry Christmas. Christmas 1977. Love, Roy Moore, D.A."

Below the signature reads 12-22-77, Olde Hickory House.

Moore’s defenders have pointed out the date and place seem to have been written in different ink and handwriting than the note.

In a Dec. 8 Good Morning America interview with Nelson about Moore’s response to the allegations (he denies them) and her experience since taking her story public, Nelson addressed the inconsistency. Nelson said she added the date and place of the inscription.

"He signed your yearbook?" ABC News reporter Tom Llamas asked Nelson.

"He did sign it," Nelson said.

"And you made some notes underneath?" Llamas asked.

"Yes," Nelson said.

"Nelson said she did make notes to the inscription, but the message was all Roy Moore," the video voiceover says.

To summarize, Nelson says she added the time and location to the inscription. But she says the note and signature was from Moore.

That’s not what the headlines of the Gateway Pundit, Breitbart or Silence is Consent. All three say Nelson said she either tampered with Moore’s signature or forged the inscription.

There’s no evidence of that.

Yet, the Gateway Pundit wrote that "Nelson admitting that she added to Moore’s alleged signature is the final nail in the coffin," the story reads. "Allred’s accuser is nothing but a fame-seeking fraud."

Fox News made a similar misstatement in their headline and story about the ABC report, which they later walked back.

"Roy Moore accuser admits she forged part of yearbook inscription attributed to Alabama Senate candidate," the original Fox News headline read. It was later edited to say she wrote, rather than forged, part of the inscription. The story did not include a clarification or correction when we last looked at it.

The original Fox News story also said Nelson "wrote part of the disputed note" without specifying what she wrote, whereas the edited version clarified that "she added the date and place in the inscription."

Our ruling

The Gateway Pundit’s headline reads "WE CALLED IT! Gloria Allred Accuser **ADMITS** She Tampered With Roy Moore’s Yearbook ‘Signature’ (VIDEO)."

But Nelson does not claim she tampered with Moore’s actual signature. She said she added a time and location below the signature. Nelson still attributes the note and signature to Moore.

We rate the statement Pants on Fire.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/dec/08/blog-posting/no-roy-moore-accuser-didnt-tamper-or-forge-yearboo/



Offline MissBarbara

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Quote from: joan1984 link=topic=60642.msg488350#msg488350 date=1512761641

[color=yellow
 If you are not readily finding this story, you need to question your own 'go to' sources, people.  I retract nothing, and if you look beyond your comfort zone of positive Obama reporting, and positive Hillary reporting, and Trump is bad reporting, you will find a lot of "news" your usual suspects are not telling you.
=================
I just typed: judge moore accuser lies    into my browser, Google search:
 https://www.google.com/search?q=judge+moore+accuser+lies&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS691US691&oq=judge+moore+accuser+lies&aqs=chrome..69i57.5319j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

this is the result.  Methinks you simply do not wish to find what you do not like.[/color]


Joan, I took your advice and clicked on the link you provided.

In that Google search, the only sources listed that agree with you are FOX News, Brietbart, and Ann Coulter.






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DrRick947

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I understand the weather forecast favors Roy Moore on Tuesday.  They say it's going to dip into the teens ...  :emot_laughing:



Offline Katiebee

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Source, Joan. Lets’s see Where you are picking up your lies and propaganda. Not even Fox News supports your fantasy.

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Offline joan1984

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Google provided 664,000 some odd responses to my inquiry. I did not read them, just provided them as it was alleged, or seemed that way, that Members here could find nothing. There is lots out there, and you may need to read a few and draw your own conclusions as to who is lying, fibbing, weasel words, and who is consistent in their statements.

For how many weeks, since the story broke, one claimed their yearbook was evidence that Roy Moore met her in person, signed her yearbook, proof. We were all told that everything she said was to be considered as TRUTH, and that was that.

Until yesterday, and this morning, when CNN gave her as much of a pass as is possible, phrasing a question in such a way as to not ask about concealment of her own writing and so forth, why did she lie originally and why did she continue to lie for weeks and weeks, and only now, virtually on the eve of the Alabama election, is she saying not Roy Moore, but herself wrote statements in question.  She still claims the signature is his, indicates the D.A. as proof he was District Attorney, when he was not District Attorney at that time, year...

The fact that not until Roy Moore was no longer District Attorney, but was a Judge, and had his clerk with the initials D.A. would such a signature appear.

Judge Moore was one woman's Judge in the matter of her Divorce, and the signature on her divorce papers matches exactly the supposed signature on her yearbook, to my eye, and to Judge Moore's attorney's eye. A request to submit the 'evidence' to a Certified Expert in Handwriting has so far been stonewalled.

And here we are. Who do you believe, and why, what beyond her gender and claim makes her believable. Who will the Alabama Jury believe, if there is a crime to defend in court there?

Democrat and RINO subversives, whispering the the willing ears of The Washington Post reporter who just happened on this information is not enough, not nearly enough, to prompt such a story to be believed, especially unveiled not during the past decades when Roy Moore held many State offices but only just AFTER it is too late to change the ballots for this election.

You betcha, if this were happening to Doug Jones, the Washington Post, and the gaggle of Democrat activists on this board, would be on the far opposite side of this discussion, Ms Barbara.

In fact, if this were the level of evidence in the case of Al Franken many of you would be protesting his leaving the Senate, if he actually intends to leave the Senate... will believe it when I see it.


Quote from: joan1984 link=topic=60642.msg488350#msg488350 date=1512761641

[color=yellow
 If you are not readily finding this story, you need to question your own 'go to' sources, people.  I retract nothing, and if you look beyond your comfort zone of positive Obama reporting, and positive Hillary reporting, and Trump is bad reporting, you will find a lot of "news" your usual suspects are not telling you.
=================
I just typed: judge moore accuser lies    into my browser, Google search:
 https://www.google.com/search?q=judge+moore+accuser+lies&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS691US691&oq=judge+moore+accuser+lies&aqs=chrome..69i57.5319j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

this is the result.  Methinks you simply do not wish to find what you do not like.[/color]


Joan, I took your advice and clicked on the link you provided.

In that Google search, the only sources listed that agree with you are FOX News, Brietbart, and Ann Coulter.






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but they bring a smile to your face as they fall down stairs.


Offline Katiebee

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In other words you got nothing to back up your claims.

There are three kinds of people in the world. Those who can count, and those who can't.