Should veterans be a privileged class?

[Lois]

Veterans get advantages with regards to benefits, housing and jobs.  I'm not talking GI bill stuff (home loans and education), but of other things.

I'm personally concerned that it is discriminatory.  Women were once excluded from serving in combat roles and were denied "veteran" status.  When they need public benefits and job training these benefits are being denied.  And then there are all the people with mental and physical disabilities that cannot get into subsidized housing because they are not veterans, and because of these same disabilities military service was never an option.

I understand that our veterans have provided valuable service, but is any life more valuable than another?  Is a homeless mother more or less deserving of subsidized housing than a veteran with no dependants, or an adult with aspergers?

[Katiebee]

I think you are viewing it differently than those “benefits” were intended.

Military service is not compensated up front to a degree commensurate with the risk involved. The pay is low, the working conditions horrendous, and the possible results from service can be very high risk to health. The benefits you speak of are delayed payment for the jobs they do.

$225 a month and tax advantages are a paltry benefit for being in a combat zone.

I think they earn what little they get after service.

[Elizabeth]

My Dad's VA Benefits (for school) after the service were $311.00 Dollars a month.
I'm still trying to figure out what $311.00 dollars could buy back then, especially as he already had a college degree (required to become an officer).
$311.00 dollars today, might buy two or three cheap text books, but not much else.

Love,
Liz

[_priapism]

"He knew what he was getting himself into." -- Donald J. Trump

[Lois]

Someone in the paygrade of E-1 -- with less than two years of service, makes a base pay of $1,467 per month, which includes free housing, food, and medical. (They get more if they live off base or married & have children.)

FYI: Most people in Tucson live on less than $1,467/month.

Also:

* free medical for life
* The Post-9/11 GI Bill has several parts including:
            Up to 100% Tuition and Fee Coverage
            Monthly Housing Allowance
           Up to $1000 a year for Books and Supplies
           Ability to Transfer Your GI Bill to Family Members

I have no problem with providing the above benefits to veterans, my problem is when these veterans are also given an advantage when competing for jobs and housing against people that need these things just as badly.

Do we really need to rob Peter to pay Paul?

 

[Katiebee]

From my fathers’ mouth:

Civilian HR and hiring managers have no frame of reference to equate military experience to civilian jobs.

His favorite way of expressing this is saying “I can call an air strike or artillery, and shoot a man at 400 meters with great regularity. However, it seems that those skills are not in demand by IBM.”

Technical branches may have an easier transition, but combat arms, which makes up the majority of the Army and Marines have a harder row to hoe.

The nation wasn’t keen on the benefits they have now. The nation isn’t willing to take care of its own. That include veterans as well as this with other need.

[Athos_131]

His favorite way of expressing this is saying “I can call an air strike or artillery, and shoot a man at 400 meters with great regularity. However, it seems that those skills are not in demand by IBM.”

That depends on what Human Resources department he might be applying to.

#Resist

[_priapism]

This is starting to sound like perverted neighbor, "Anyone who makes more than me deserves whatever happens to them."

The military is hardly privileged.  They work hard.  Yes, it's a good living.  The kind of living most middle class Americans were able to enjoy, until the 1% bought Congress and began systemically destroying their security.

The only reason the military hasn't been drawn and quartered is that we have a worshipful attitude towards them, and even the dirtiest member of Congress votes surreptitiously to deny veterans their benefits.  But don't worry.  They'll be thrown over a barrel and collectively ass fucked before it is all over.

War is the #1 American export, and it requires cannon fodder to thrive.  We aren't "protecting freedom" in Niger, Chad, and Nigeria.  We are protecting corporate globalism.  So I say give the vets their due.  They earned it.

[Lois]

Veterans usually do get screwed.  They have to fight for any disability rating and have a tough time appealing any rulings on it.  I am glad they get lifetime medical because they usually need it.  I'm also glad they get money towards retraining or college so they can get a good job.

My BF grew up in the military and is most critical of all the privileges he believes they get.  I'm not sure about the rest of the country, but in Tucson there are lots of businesses that post veteran discounts for all kinds of goods and services.  He believes it is actually part of the glorification of war, and warlike behavior, as a way of life.

Like I said, he was an army brat.

[_priapism]

Your boyfriend has a point, but military personnel don't conceive wars, they merely follow orders.  I see no reason to glamorize their mission, nor do I see reason to resent a discount given.

[Sensualtravler]

From my fathers’ mouth:

Civilian HR and hiring managers have no frame of reference to equate military experience to civilian jobs.

His favorite way of expressing this is saying “I can call an air strike or artillery, and shoot a man at 400 meters with great regularity. However, it seems that those skills are not in demand by IBM.”

Technical branches may have an easier transition, but combat arms, which makes up the majority of the Army and Marines have a harder row to hoe.

The nation wasn’t keen on the benefits they have now. The nation isn’t willing to take care of its own. That include veterans as well as this with other need.

Anyone coming out of the military should be guaranteed their old jobs back after   two years of service and returning to civilian life , as it was in WW2. Some of your fathers feeling are true, but a lot of military services may be applied it civilian life.MPs and combat usually go into police, or similar services.Medical   go into similar civilian services. Aircraft and mechanics and aircraft maintenance are well paying jobs that are easily obtained in civilian life. The GI bill provides further training and education if desired as well, and assisted low interest loans for housing.  I can't think of any positions for artillery spotters offhand. Maybe SWAT? Also a large percentage decide to stay in the military as a career. I would think navel personnel would have the most difficult time finding similar civilian positions.More corporations should hire service personnel familiar with military training as HR reps to alleviate problems as you describe. Not likely though as HR reps don't usually pay enough to raise a family on,unless they have advanced degrees or tons of experience.

[Elizabeth]

Of Course Tucson owes a lot to one of it's biggest employer's......Raytheon Missile Systems.

Love,
Liz

[_priapism]

My Dad's VA Benefits (for school) after the service were $311.00 Dollars a month.
I'm still trying to figure out what $311.00 dollars could buy back then, especially as he already had a college degree (required to become an officer).
$311.00 dollars today, might buy two or three cheap text books, but not much else.

Love,
Liz

Consumer Price Index Inflation Calculator

$311.00 in 1965 is worth $2,460.00 today.

[Elizabeth]

My Dad's VA Benefits (for school) after the service were $311.00 Dollars a month.
I'm still trying to figure out what $311.00 dollars could buy back then, especially as he already had a college degree (required to become an officer).
$311.00 dollars today, might buy two or three cheap text books, but not much else.

Love,
Liz

Consumer Price Index Inflation Calculator

$311.00 in 1965 is worth $2,460.00 today.

LOL....What the hell good is that....??
It was still 1965......and he still was only able to receive $311.00 dollars.
Your inflation calculator is nice but worthless......1965 was $311.00 dollars not $2,460.00 dollars, and besides I don't think anybody sat around and wondered what a dollar would be worth in 2017 way back in 1965.

Love,
Liz

[Lois]

[_priapism]

My Dad's VA Benefits (for school) after the service were $311.00 Dollars a month.
I'm still trying to figure out what $311.00 dollars could buy back then, especially as he already had a college degree (required to become an officer).
$311.00 dollars today, might buy two or three cheap text books, but not much else.

Love,
Liz

Consumer Price Index Inflation Calculator

$311.00 in 1965 is worth (equal to) $2,460.00 today.

LOL....What the hell good is that....??
It was still 1965......and he still was only able to receive $311.00 dollars.
Your inflation calculator is nice but worthless......1965 was $311.00 dollars not $2,460.00 dollars, and besides I don't think anybody sat around and wondered what a dollar would be worth in 2017 way back in 1965.

Love,
Liz

I assume you didn't take Economics in college.  Inflation erodes the value of a dollar, as does time.  A dollar in 1965 was worth far more, than a dollar in present day.  That is what the CPI tracks.

Going back to the calculation, $311.00, in 1965, had the equivalent buying power as $2,460.00 today.  Your father would need $2,460.00 today, to have the same economic benefit that $311.00 provided in 1965.

I picked 1965, because I don't know what year your dad got out of the military.  If you give me the actual date, I can run the number for you again.

[Elizabeth]

Toe......

Dad served from 1966 until 1994.
Made final rank of Colonel, eligible for star but did not receive it.

Love,
Liz
 

[_priapism]

Toe......

Dad served from 1966 until 1994.
Made final rank of Colonel, eligible for star but did not receive it.

Love,
Liz
 

An O-6, with 28 years in, takes home about $91,000 a year at today's rates.

[watcher1]

My Dad's VA Benefits (for school) after the service were $311.00 Dollars a month.
I'm still trying to figure out what $311.00 dollars could buy back then, especially as he already had a college degree (required to become an officer).
$311.00 dollars today, might buy two or three cheap text books, but not much else.

Love,
Liz

Liz, the amount you said your Dad received from the G.I. Bill seems about right.  I received roughly that amount when I returned to college after the service. If I am not mistaken, that amount was only for the actual months one attended school, not every month. I also had qualified for the Illinois Military Scholarship that paid for my hours and books, so the $300 went toward room and board, with a little left for beer money.

Katie - I remember being questioned by prospective employers who noticed my military service and asked what skills could I bring to the job that I had learned in the military.  I thought a while then answered - I can blow up things and I am pretty handy with an M-60 machine gun. 

[Katiebee]

Military service would seem to build team and interpersonal skills. Embers a work ethic centered around mission completion. These skills increase as one ascends in rank to include planning skills, logistical awareness, and the big one that civilians don’t understand, leadership.