Our Hearts Are With Las Vegas

[Lois]

In my opinion certain controversial topics like mass shootings should always got to 1408.  This is because certain Americans get very emotional regarding this topic and political blame always gets thrown around.

[Lois]

Go, go, go... Chicago!

Lois loves the carnage, and no one is ever covered in the "Press", so it must be just great, all OKey Dokey...

Says the woman who cheers when suspects are killed, thus sparing the taxpayers the cost of a fair trial 

Sorry Joan, But I think you are projecting again.

[MissBarbara]

Please watch this, listen to what he has to say, and think about it...

[Elizabeth]

Gun violence in America, explained in 17 maps and charts

5) States with more guns have more gun deaths

7) States with tighter gun control laws have fewer gun-related deaths

#Resist

Notice where New Jersey is.....??
Gun Laws Happen To Work.

Love,
Liz

[redhatlover]

I think they work as well as drunk driving laws.

[Elizabeth]

I think they work as well as drunk driving laws.

You Don't Want A DUI In New Jersey......!!!!!
It's expensive AND they tack on an insurance surcharge for three years after the  DUI charge. Plus the state gets involved with a mandatory surcharge for three years also. If you drive in New Jersey and think you can get away with a DUI because you are from another state (Don't), they will come after you through your wages / tax returns and anything else that comes to there minds.

Love,
Liz
 

[redhatlover]

They do similar in Michigan also.  Does nothing to stop drunk driving, repeat offenders, driving on a suspended, or numerous fatalities from drunk drivers.

[MissBarbara]

They do similar in Michigan also.  Does nothing to stop drunk driving, repeat offenders, driving on a suspended, or numerous fatalities from drunk drivers.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but how do you know that it "does nothing to stop drunk driving"?

People commit murder all the time: Does that mean that laws against murder "do nothing to stop murder"? The establishment of a law does not mean, per se, that no one will ever violate it. People break the law all the time, in big ways and little ways, and that fact -- it's basic human nature -- says nothing about the effectiveness or utility of the laws.

We have absolutely no idea how many times someone does NOT drive while intoxicated, following the law, or recognizing the consequence of so doing. And, to the question at hand, we have no idea how many gun deaths have been avoided due to our gun laws.

[GEMINIGUY]

God you're a fucking moron. Thanks for reminding me you exist again.

Talking to yourself is one thing.

Posting to yourself is a different thing.

Seek help.

#Resist

I didn't start the topic, ya fucking idiot.

I can't do it anymore, sweety. I just can't.

Now don't go and fall prey to the Dark Side. If you do the Star Wars fanatics win.

[GEMINIGUY]

God you're a fucking moron. Thanks for reminding me you exist again.

Talking to yourself is one thing.

Posting to yourself is a different thing.

Seek help.

#Resist

I didn't start the topic, ya fucking idiot.

I can't do it anymore, sweety. I just can't.

lol This is getting out of hand here

[Lois]

They do similar in Michigan also.  Does nothing to stop drunk driving, repeat offenders, driving on a suspended, or numerous fatalities from drunk drivers.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but how do you know that it "does nothing to stop drunk driving"?

People commit murder all the time: Does that mean that laws against murder "do nothing to stop murder"? The establishment of a law does not mean, per se, that no one will ever violate it. People break the law all the time, in big ways and little ways, and that fact -- it's basic human nature -- says nothing about the effectiveness or utility of the laws.

We have absolutely no idea how many times someone does NOT drive while intoxicated, following the law, or recognizing the consequence of so doing. And, to the question at hand, we have no idea how many gun deaths have been avoided due to our gun laws.

Indeed. I've never understand this argument against having laws. Of course people will break the law, does this mean we should not have any?

Our laws reflect our societal values.  We don't want murder to be acceptable so there are laws against murder. If no one ever committed murder, it would not be an issue and we would not need laws prohibiting murder.

[ChirpingGirl]

God you're a fucking moron. Thanks for reminding me you exist again.

Talking to yourself is one thing.

Posting to yourself is a different thing.

Seek help.

#Resist

I didn't start the topic, ya fucking idiot.

I can't do it anymore, sweety. I just can't.

Now don't go and fall prey to the Dark Side. If you do the Star Wars fanatics win.

[watcher1]

MissB - Conan hit it on the head in his intro that you posted.  In 9 1/2 minutes of actual shooting, 59 people lay dead and more then 500 injured.  In 9 1/2 minutes!! And we call ourselves civilized?  A majority of Americans want to see something done by our elected officials to stop this carnage but will these elected officials shun the big money coming from the NRA and maybe actually vote their conscious? Time will only tell.

[Lois]

It simply should not be easy to buy high powered rifles designed to kill people.  Only bolt-action single shot rifles should be allowed without a special permit.  Such a permit should only be granted after a thorough psychological evaluation and other considerations.

We also need to look at certain aspects of our culture.  Saturday night I went to the theatre to see the new Kingsmen movie.  Trailers were shown for two upcoming films glorifying vigilantism.  One was a remake of Death Wish.  We need to start saying NO to films that glorify violence and show it as the answer to our problems.  We need to change our culture.

Sorry folks, but guns and more violence are not the answer.  Violence simply breeds more violence.  After each mass shooting we have people trying to top the last one.  It has to stop.

[Elizabeth]

It simply should not be easy to buy high powered rifles designed to kill people.  Only bolt-action single shot rifles should be allowed without a special permit.  Such a permit should only be granted after a thorough psychological evaluation and other considerations.

We also need to look at certain aspects of our culture.  Saturday night I went to the theatre to see the new Kingsmen movie.  Trailers were shown for two upcoming films glorifying vigilantism.  One was a remake of Death Wish.  We need to start saying NO to films that glorify violence and show it as the answer to our problems.  We need to change our culture.

Sorry folks, but guns and more violence are not the answer.  Violence simply breeds more violence.  After each mass shooting we have people trying to top the last one.  It has to stop.

Have you ever seem the video games that are out now.....??
My neighbors boys have some very very graphic and violent games that they play regularly. It's not just the movies that need fixing.

Love,
Liz

[joan1984]

Legislation that would stop human behavior, such as the one in Vegas, One in 310,000,000 or so American Citizens and who knows how many "residents", is one that would gain overwhelming support for us all.

No one has yet to propose such legislation, on a local or State or National level, and there is nothing in sight proven to work. Depriving American Citizens of their right to own and bear firearms is as sacred as each of the Amendments before it, and after it, at least for the first TEN, which were required for the US Constitution to be fully ratified.

Some ideas to prevent older people from owning firearms, or preventing any who have had certain medications prescribed, or any who report specific issues to their Doctors will only result in otherwise good Citizens being able to protect their loved ones and their homes.

Those who plan to kill, to break the law, will find a way to circumvent existing laws, and those passed to regulate specific magazine size, or gun shapes, and the like, and as criminals are already not allowed to use a firearm, or possess one during any crime. Criminals have little regard for legislation passed in a feel good manner by elected legislators pandering to the crowd in the moment.

  Enforce existing laws to keep criminals locked up until we have good reason to believe their life of crime is done, is a good place to start. People who are licensed to carry concealed, licensed to purchase and own certain high power firearms, are some of the most regulated and investigated persons we have.

  This incident in Las Vegas, of which we know only skeletal information so far, may well be the very FIRST mass killing with a AUTOMATIC weapon. Seems sound of such weapons is unique enough that we all presume we know what he had as to access in his Mandolay room.  He had, from reports, up to 29 long weapons with him, could fire them in sequence, and so having a automatic was not any great advantage in this case. He had another 18 firearms at his home.
Again, details and exact count, exact type of weapon are only from reports on TV at this date, and we all know that TV is famous for not giving us accuracy in the early weeks of investigation.

Human Nature is the element that requires some addressing, not more limits on the liberty and freedom of law abiding citizens, no restrictions on firearms.

MissB - Conan hit it on the head in his intro that you posted.  In 9 1/2 minutes of actual shooting, 59 people lay dead and more then 500 injured.  In 9 1/2 minutes!! And we call ourselves civilized?  A majority of Americans want to see something done by our elected officials to stop this carnage but will these elected officials shun the big money coming from the NRA and maybe actually vote their conscious? Time will only tell.

[Katiebee]

You really don’t know anything about firearms Joan. Having automatic weapons meant he only had to change magazines. It made a very great difference. He rate of fire is increased. In the amount of time he was firing at least 200 rounds were fired.

Rate of fire and time between reloading is vastly different when considering the amount of billets placed. He wasn’t aiming, he was spraying his target area.

[Elizabeth]

Legislation that would stop human behavior, such as the one in Vegas, One in 310,000,000 or so American Citizens and who knows how many "residents", is one that would gain overwhelming support for us all.

No one has yet to propose such legislation, on a local or State or National level, and there is nothing in sight proven to work. Depriving American Citizens of their right to own and bear firearms is as sacred as each of the Amendments before it, and after it, at least for the first TEN, which were required for the US Constitution to be fully ratified.

Some ideas to prevent older people from owning firearms, or preventing any who have had certain medications prescribed, or any who report specific issues to their Doctors will only result in otherwise good Citizens being able to protect their loved ones and their homes.

Those who plan to kill, to break the law, will find a way to circumvent existing laws, and those passed to regulate specific magazine size, or gun shapes, and the like, and as criminals are already not allowed to use a firearm, or possess one during any crime. Criminals have little regard for legislation passed in a feel good manner by elected legislators pandering to the crowd in the moment.

  Enforce existing laws to keep criminals locked up until we have good reason to believe their life of crime is done, is a good place to start. People who are licensed to carry concealed, licensed to purchase and own certain high power firearms, are some of the most regulated and investigated persons we have.

  This incident in Las Vegas, of which we know only skeletal information so far, may well be the very FIRST mass killing with a AUTOMATIC weapon. Seems sound of such weapons is unique enough that we all presume we know what he had as to access in his Mandolay room.  He had, from reports, up to 29 long weapons with him, could fire them in sequence, and so having a automatic was not any great advantage in this case. He had another 18 firearms at his home.
Again, details and exact count, exact type of weapon are only from reports on TV at this date, and we all know that TV is famous for not giving us accuracy in the early weeks of investigation.

Human Nature is the element that requires some addressing, not more limits on the liberty and freedom of law abiding citizens, no restrictions on firearms.

MissB - Conan hit it on the head in his intro that you posted.  In 9 1/2 minutes of actual shooting, 59 people lay dead and more then 500 injured.  In 9 1/2 minutes!! And we call ourselves civilized?  A majority of Americans want to see something done by our elected officials to stop this carnage but will these elected officials shun the big money coming from the NRA and maybe actually vote their conscious? Time will only tell.

Is this where you defend his right to shoot and kill 59 innocent concert goers and wound another 500....??  Joan the right to bear arms doesn't really apply to someone who can randomly kill 59 people and wound 500 (for gods sake it sounded more like a Vietnam battle field report).

Love,
Liz

[Lois]

Again, Joan takes the argument that laws cannot stop human behavior, so we should not bother with legislation.

We might as well not have any laws about anything if we followed that line of argument to its conclusion.

I agree that people will commit murder on occasion.  We don't know nor can we predict why they do it, but they do.  But we can make it harder for them to kill so many people when they snap.

Guns are enablers.  They enable people to kill many more than they would be able to kill otherwise.  Yes, people use motor vehicles to kill too, but the main purpose of a motor vehicle is transportation, not murder.  Guns are designed with one purpose in mind: deadly force.  Accordingly, they should be regulated.

I have no problem with guns for hunting and-self defence.  Bolt-action rifles, shotguns, and revolvers are adequate for these needs.  I know because I use them for these things.

If a person wants fancier guns because they are a collector, they can get a special permit.

[ChirpingGirl]

If you need this, you don't know how to shoot it right anyway.