KRISTEN'S BOARD
Vote now for Pervert of the Year and Author of the Year in the Members’ Bar. Voting concludes on January 1.

News:

Hate Speech = Terrorism

Lois · 2613

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Lois

  • Super Freak
  • Burnt at the stake
  • ******
    • Posts: 11,155
    • Woos/Boos: +768/-56
on: August 14, 2017, 05:48:50 PM
At this point in my life I do not believe hate speech is protected speech. It's a terrorist threat designed to strike fear into the lives of Americans.  Yes, hate speech is terrorism.

If a mob assembled to protest your existence, or your right to be in this country. Would you not feel threatened? It's literally domestic terrorism. It is literally a culture war.

Comparing black lives matter to the alt right, is bullshit. If somebody commits violence in name of a noble cause, it's abhorrent and unacceptable. but should not minimize the noble movement.

The actions in Charlotte were committed not in the name of a noble cause. They were hate and bigotry in the name of a group that preaches hate and bigotry.

If you think their speech is acceptable because they preach peaceful ethnic cleansing, you're one of them. Let's think about this, how do you peacefully move 38.3% of the US population? That's 124 million people. That would create the largest refugee crisis the world has ever seen. Is it possible to peacefully relocate 124 million people? Fuck no! It would require huge concentration camps to be built. This is Nazism, not figuratively, literally.

The declaration of Independence says, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Black lives matter is about unalienable rights, life liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

The alt-right is about denying the unalienable rights of other Americans.

The first amendment reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

The alt-right is violence trying to mask itself as peace to more covertly accomplish their goals. I would argue that there is nothing peaceful about an alt-right assembly preaching hate and violence and it is not covered by the first amendment.

And finally, social media seems to understand this as well.


GoDaddy Pulls The Plug On Neo-Nazi Website The Daily Stormer
The white supremacist site has been publishing its hate-filled propaganda online for years.

Web hosting company GoDaddy announced on Sunday that a neo-Nazi and white supremacist website had 24 hours to move its domain to another provider.

The Daily Stormer, a site the Southern Poverty Law Center described as dedicated to “spreading anti-Semitism, neo-Nazism and white nationalism,” published a derogatory post about 32-year-old Heather Heyer on Sunday. Heyer is the woman who was killed when a car plowed into a crowd demonstrating against white supremacists in Charlottesville, Virginia over the weekend.

Nineteen others were also injured in the crash. Police later charged James Fields, 20, of Ohio, with second-degree murder.

After getting inundated with tweets from activists, including Amy Siskind, who sent screenshots of the degrading post to the company, GoDaddy said it would no longer host The Daily Stormer because the neo-Nazi website had violated the company’s terms of service.

More:  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/godaddy-pulls-plug-daily-stormer-neo-nazi-site_us_5991318fe4b090964297f493?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009



IdleBoast

  • Guest
Reply #1 on: August 14, 2017, 06:09:00 PM
 :sign_iagree:

One person's right to free speech cannot be allowed to threaten another's right to safely exist.

It's insane that a garden decoration manufacturer is more moved to make a statement against the far/alt-right when they use their products than POTUS is when those same Nazis are using his name as their chant!






Offline Katiebee

  • Shield Maiden POY 2018
  • Burnt at the stake
  • *******
    • Posts: 12,197
    • Woos/Boos: +946/-14
    • Gender: Female
  • Achieving world domination, one body at a time.
Reply #2 on: August 14, 2017, 07:50:25 PM
Impeach Trump.

He is incapable of doing the job he was elected to.

There are three kinds of people in the world. Those who can count, and those who can't.


Offline Athos_131

  • ΘΣ, Class of '92
  • Burnt at the stake
  • *******
    • Posts: 8,759
    • Woos/Boos: +376/-53
    • Gender: Male
  • How many Assholes do we got on this ship, anyhow?
Reply #3 on: August 14, 2017, 11:36:00 PM
As much as I despise racism, gender and class bias I am not sure I can agree.

It creates a slippery slope and gets dangerously close to, "Will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?"

Vote with your wallet, encourage others as well to not support businesses that support hate speech and unethical practices.  There's a reason people like Bill O'Reilly get canned.  He lost his advertisers.

#Resist

P.S. Threatening to murder someone is not protected speech.

P.P.S.  Threatening to burn someone's home is also not protected speech.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 11:47:13 PM by Athos_131 »

#BlackLivesMatter
Arrest The Cops Who Killed Breonna Taylor

#BanTheNaziFromKB


Offline Rebecca_shy

  • New Pervert
  • *
    • Posts: 9
    • Woos/Boos: +3/-0
    • Gender: Female
Reply #4 on: August 15, 2017, 09:56:54 PM
NO. All speech is free speech or else there is NO FREE SPEECH. At no time should there ever be someone who gets to decide what is or isn't hate speech. You have no right to feel safe or to have your feelings protected.

Don't you realize you are hanging yourself with your own rope? Any tools you give the government to silence the opposition can just as easily be used on you.



Offline Lois

  • Super Freak
  • Burnt at the stake
  • ******
    • Posts: 11,155
    • Woos/Boos: +768/-56
Reply #5 on: August 15, 2017, 10:22:46 PM
I would remind you that only peaceful assembly is a right guaranteed by the constitution.  Advocating for violence is not.  Nor can you say that you want to kill the President.

From wiki:
Quote
In Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire (1942), the Supreme Court held that speech is unprotected if it constitutes "fighting words".[30] Fighting words, as defined by the Court, is speech that "tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace" by provoking a fight, so long as it is a "personally abusive [word] which, when addressed to the ordinary citizen, is, as a matter of common knowledge, inherently likely to provoke a violent reaction".[31] Additionally, such speech must be "directed to the person of the hearer" and is "thus likely to be seen as a 'direct personal insult'".[32][33]

One legal commentator has suggested that, along with fighting words, speech might be unprotected if the speaker intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly inflicts severe emotional distress.[34] However, the United States Supreme Court has not implemented such an exception, and even if it does, the exception would be probably be limited to private figures. The Court held in Hustler v. Falwell (1988) that satire which could be seen as offensive to a "public figure" is fully protected.[35] Such speech is rooted in a historical protection of political satire.[36] A notable example of a case involving offensive speech was the Court's decision in Texas v. Johnson (1989), which struck down a law criminalizing flag burning in Texas.[37]

Threats of violence that are directed at a person or group of persons that has the intent of placing the target at risk of bodily harm or death are generally unprotected.[38] However, there are several exceptions. For example, the Supreme Court has held that "threats may not be punished if a reasonable person would understand them as obvious hyperbole", he writes.[39][40] Additionally, threats of "social ostracism" and of "politically motivated boycotts" are constitutionally protected.[41] However, sometimes even political speech can be a threat, and thus becomes unprotected.[42]

So I have shown that you are wrong, hate speech can be prohibited.

Germans Aren’t Surprised By The Recent Violence Of America’s White Nationalists
They’ve seen the symbols that were on display in Charlottesville before, and they know where they lead.
Sebastian Christ

MUNICH ― To Germans, it is no surprise that right-wing violence is escalating in America and that the president for days appeared unwilling to explicitly condemn the racists responsible for the death of a young woman during a far-right demonstration in Charlottesville, Virginia.

In Germany, commentators from even the most conservative media organizations now argue the U.S. is moving away from democracy under President Donald Trump; that the president has become, in the words of one well-known sociologist, “the standard-bearer” for white supremacists.

“We are not dealing with a normal politician, but ... with something like a totalitarian ruler,” Harald Welzer, a sociologist, told a well-regarded German radio program on Monday. “We know this kind of politics from the 20th century. We didn’t expect its return in the 21st century.”

There’s little equivocation here, in part because of Germany’s historical relationship to symbols on display in Charlottesville: the swastika, the torches and the slogans.

History here casts a long shadow. As The Economist rightly observed this week, in Germany, “Relativisation, endorsement by hint or omission, far-right symbols as ‘irony’, dog-whistle prevarications and creeping extenuation are rarely tolerated.”

A lesson from the horrors of Nazi rule in Germany is that there is a direct line from totalitarian speech to open violence. Hannah Arendt wrote about it in The Origins of Totalitarianism, and Victor Klemperer, in his book Language of the Third Reich, has portrayed the brutalization of language during the Nazi regime.

In Germany, this belief has led to laws which at times seem odd to foreigners. But they are justified by history: Never again will totalitarian ideas dominate our political discourse.

While we, too, are in favor of freedom of speech, the denial of the Holocaust is forbidden, as is incitement of hatred, which is punishable by up to five years in prison. Many of the demonstrators in Charlottesville would have fallen afoul of this law in Germany.

The public display of Nazi flags or regalia is forbidden, and even antique dealers must cover any swastikas on display. Nazi salutes are also forbidden, as two Chinese tourists recently learned: They were arrested after making the salute in front of the Reichstag building in Berlin. (A drunken American tourist got even swifter justice when a passerby punched him as he gave several stiff-armed salutes in downtown Dresden on Sunday.)

Right-wing populists, not unknown in Germany, have on occasion criticized some of these laws, referring to them as a “thought-policing.”

But, so far, public opinion hasn’t turned in their favor.

And even to those who advocate stricter controls on immigration, extreme-right symbols are a taboo.

The line between the right and the far right is like a firewall and, in Germany, it’s our democracy that holds it up.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/germany-reaction-to-charlottesville_us_59922bf4e4b08a247276c42d



ChirpingGirl

  • Guest
Reply #6 on: August 16, 2017, 02:01:34 AM
NO. All speech is free speech or else there is NO FREE SPEECH. At no time should there ever be someone who gets to decide what is or isn't hate speech. You have no right to feel safe or to have your feelings protected.

Don't you realize you are hanging yourself with your own rope? Any tools you give the government to silence the opposition can just as easily be used on you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjJN08uqt70



IdleBoast

  • Guest
Reply #7 on: August 16, 2017, 06:54:46 PM
NO. All speech is free speech or else there is NO FREE SPEECH. At no time should there ever be someone who gets to decide what is or isn't hate speech. You have no right to feel safe or to have your feelings protected.

Consider this actual statement:

"Women should not have the vote - their brains are not capable of the level of thought required to decide who governs this country."

Would you not challenge that statement?

Or how about "Women who speak out against their masters should be flogged"A child that wears a short skirt is asking to be raped, it's not the man's fault!"?

I have heard people say all these things, in public, and mean them. If you are happy for a man to say that, to you, in public, and you would feel no need to make a contradictory response, then fine.  You're an idiot, but fine.

Similarly, do you value the right to openly call for the destruction of other human beings, of entire nations or cultural groups, more highly than you value the right of those people to live in safety?

There is a distinct difference between exerting your right to free speech and turning up at a rally carrying weapons & shields and wearing body armour.

That distinction, though, was left far behind the moment a key turned in the ignition of a Dodge Challenger on the afternoon of August 12th, 2017.







KitKat

  • Guest
Reply #8 on: August 16, 2017, 09:03:19 PM
NO. All speech is free speech or else there is NO FREE SPEECH. At no time should there ever be someone who gets to decide what is or isn't hate speech. You have no right to feel safe or to have your feelings protected.

Don't you realize you are hanging yourself with your own rope? Any tools you give the government to silence the opposition can just as easily be used on you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjJN08uqt70

Great speech.



IdleBoast

  • Guest
Reply #9 on: August 16, 2017, 09:16:03 PM
GB - Rebecca appeared (to me) to be saying "anybody can say anything, whatever."

I was pointing out that they cannot (or should not) go unchallenged. You'll note I did not say "banned", I said "challenged".

You'll also note that I pointed out that what the Nazis in Charlottesille did was not exercising their right to free speech - they were inciting, and materially prepared for, open violence.

If they had not arrived with weapons and shields, things would have gone very differently.

Where is the line that divides a legal (though distasteful) expression of an opinion from a crime?

I, personally, cannot definitively draw that line. I'm pretty sure no lawyer or judge can.  I am certain, though, that that line was deliberately, knowingly and with malice aforethought leapt over in Charlottesville.

Having crossed that line, the response cannot be an annoyed frown, or a sternly-worded letter to the local paper. It should not be an equally-violent response from those who do not share that opinion or condone those acts.  It must be an active, legal response to a criminal act.

None of those right-wing protesters can claim to be surprised by the violence. Not when they went armed and armoured, or knowingly accompanied the armed and armoured.  They went, not to express an opinion, but to express hatred through violence.

Yes, the counter-protesters were also violent, and may have been prepared to be involved in violence, but they were not prepared to be violent - their weapons were their fists and banners, not billy clubs, truncheons, firearms or a car.

I am not arguing for a reduction in free speech - I am arguing for actions to have consequences.

If the Nazis had marched with banners, yelled through megaphones, and given straight-arm salutes to all and sundry, that would have been "fine".  The other protesters would (hopefully) have yelled back at them for a while, and then each side would have gone home, confident that they had scored some points for their side.

Freedom of speech, freedom of reply.  Sorted.

There is no amendment, that I am aware of, that gives a group of people the freedom to express their opinion through physical might.




IdleBoast

  • Guest
Reply #10 on: August 16, 2017, 10:08:55 PM
Which part of the 1st amendment says that you have to publish other people's speech?  Which part of UDHR obliges it?

If you think that a web-hosting company is obliged to host such bile, then you must also demand that TV stations give them as much air-time as they demand, that newspapers hand over their front pages.

You have no first amendment rights when you are on somebody else's property, and that includes other people's websites.  Legally, a website is private ground that others have been granted access to under certain conditions.

Think what you like, hold what opinions you like, but say them in my house and you get kicked out.




IdleBoast

  • Guest
Reply #11 on: August 16, 2017, 11:11:06 PM
Well, you are, of course, free to think what you want...








Offline joan1984

  • Burnt at the stake
  • *******
    • Posts: 11,270
    • Woos/Boos: +616/-270
    • Gender: Female
  • Co-POY 2011
Reply #12 on: August 16, 2017, 11:30:41 PM
For the record, as to having "a car" as a weapon, most of the demonstrators on all sides, and observers on all sides, virtually all the Police, even the hare brained McAuliff and his sidekick Moran (who thought it went well, like a hockey game), arrived by some form of transportation, a car or equivalent.

That some Ahole decided to run over people with his car is an illegal act, and he is being held to account for that action. The law will provide it's usual review and if warranted, justice for that individual.

Carrying a firearm openly in VA is not illegal, and thus, any who openly were displaying firearms were not charged or arrested.  IDK the specifics as to if the firearm is loaded or not, as to legality, and would bet any such folks were in compliance with the law, knowing they risked severe penalty to not do so.

Clubs, chains, helmets and ballistic vests were aplenty, both with Antifa thugs and the Nazi/KKK whatever thugs. One difference is the Nazi/KKK folks has a legal permit to be there, for their planned event, a demonstration regarding the Robert E Lee statue in the park.  Clearly, a First Amendment event, or the city would not have issued the permit.

Troublemakers in the 'counter demonstrator' corps, a mix of various curious people, and no goodnick agitators like BLM and Antifa, perhaps others, conspired to disrupt the First Amendment Demonstration covered by city permit, and were successful in doing so.

Whether in error, or whatever, seems Legal Demonstrators were directed into a larger group of thugs within in the corps of observers, who attacked the legal demonstrators, prior even to the planned beginning of the event. Legal demonstrators had parked in a specific location determined by the city/police, and expected to have clear passage from their vehicles to the Robert E Lee statue in the park, and "authorities" decided to not provide such access, and to cancel the demonstration, not due to the legal Demonstrators actions, but due to them being attacked by Antifa and a violent mix of agitators within the observer corps.

The fact that the legal Demonstrators were prepared in dress, and items they carried to withstand such an attack, from past history being attacked in other demonstrations, is to be expected.  The fact that observers came to the event with offensive weaponry as well as helmets and ballistic vests indicates their planning for trouble.

Sadly, the only people standing up to Democrats, and their allies like Antifa and the leftist media as a whole, are such cretins as White Power and KKK folks, which tends now to brand any who defend retention of U.S. History and Monuments with an expected charge of "Racist" by such Democrat Media.

Protection of Monuments to mostly elected Democrat politicians who fought the 1965 Civil Rights Act and prior efforts, including bringing a Civil War to this Nation on a variety of issues, including Slavery, and then supported Jim Crow following the Civil War, should be an American cause, not a "racist" cause, and yet we see Democrats continuing to attempt to erase history, and tar anyone who cares about the factual issues, with incendiary names, having no legitimate issues other than "Russia Russia Russia" and "Race Baiting" to offer.

Some people are like the 'slinky'. Not really good for much,
but they bring a smile to your face as they fall down stairs.


Offline Lois

  • Super Freak
  • Burnt at the stake
  • ******
    • Posts: 11,155
    • Woos/Boos: +768/-56
Reply #13 on: August 16, 2017, 11:52:20 PM
I would point out that counter-demonstrators do not need a permit.  Counter-demonstrators are a given because NAZIs always get them and was a main reason why Charlottesville wanted to deny the permit in the first place.  The rally permit therefore covers all of the demonstrators.

Also, there are those that argue that requiring a permit at all is an abridgment of the right to peacefully protest.  The reason there is a permit process is so that the city can evaluate in advance if police or other security is needed to manage the crowds. 



IdleBoast

  • Guest
Reply #14 on: August 17, 2017, 12:24:38 AM
Joan, watch this.  All the way through, especially the last interview with the far-right spokesman.

Warning:  This video is NSFW and contains graphic and disturbing images and speech.


#Resist



Offline Athos_131

  • ΘΣ, Class of '92
  • Burnt at the stake
  • *******
    • Posts: 8,759
    • Woos/Boos: +376/-53
    • Gender: Male
  • How many Assholes do we got on this ship, anyhow?
Reply #15 on: August 17, 2017, 01:05:23 AM
joan1984 has no proof, otherwise he would post proof.

He is just trying to justify the death of an innocent civilian to further his racist agenda.

As usual he's decided to steer the discussion off topic with such bafflegab.

I call on anyone to provide proof before spouting falsities.

#Resist
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 01:08:19 AM by Athos_131 »

#BlackLivesMatter
Arrest The Cops Who Killed Breonna Taylor

#BanTheNaziFromKB


Offline Athos_131

  • ΘΣ, Class of '92
  • Burnt at the stake
  • *******
    • Posts: 8,759
    • Woos/Boos: +376/-53
    • Gender: Male
  • How many Assholes do we got on this ship, anyhow?
Reply #16 on: August 17, 2017, 01:38:04 AM

#BlackLivesMatter
Arrest The Cops Who Killed Breonna Taylor

#BanTheNaziFromKB


Offline Katiebee

  • Shield Maiden POY 2018
  • Burnt at the stake
  • *******
    • Posts: 12,197
    • Woos/Boos: +946/-14
    • Gender: Female
  • Achieving world domination, one body at a time.
Reply #17 on: August 17, 2017, 03:32:29 AM
The first amendment:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

It only forbids the government from restricting speech.

Please note that advocating the violent overthrow of the government can be acted upon by law enforcement and result not only in surveillance, but in arrest and prosecution.

Individuals and private institutions have no restriction on limiting speech on their property or media.

Should Lois suddenly decide to ban someone for the content of their posts, she is entitled to do so, without fear of legal action. Sure the person could bring a civil suit, and they would likely lose.

There are three kinds of people in the world. Those who can count, and those who can't.


Offline Athos_131

  • ΘΣ, Class of '92
  • Burnt at the stake
  • *******
    • Posts: 8,759
    • Woos/Boos: +376/-53
    • Gender: Male
  • How many Assholes do we got on this ship, anyhow?
Reply #18 on: August 17, 2017, 05:59:38 AM

Clubs, chains, helmets and ballistic vests were aplenty, both with Antifa thugs and the Nazi/KKK whatever thugs. One difference is the Nazi/KKK folks has a legal permit to be there, for their planned event, a demonstration regarding the Robert E Lee statue in the park.  Clearly, a First Amendment event, or the city would not have issued the permit.

Troublemakers in the 'counter demonstrator' corps, a mix of various curious people, and no goodnick agitators like BLM and Antifa, perhaps others, conspired to disrupt the First Amendment Demonstration covered by city permit, and were successful in doing so.


President Trump’s false claim that counter-demonstrators lacked a permit

Quote
President Trump twice claimed that counter-protesters lacked a permit to demonstrate in Charlottesville. But they did have permits for rallies — and they did not need one to go into or gather near Emancipation Park, where white nationalists planned their rally. The president earns Four Pinocchios.

#Resist
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 06:08:41 AM by Athos_131 »

#BlackLivesMatter
Arrest The Cops Who Killed Breonna Taylor

#BanTheNaziFromKB


Offline StrawmanFP

  • New Pervert
  • *
    • Posts: 17
    • Woos/Boos: +2/-0
Reply #19 on: August 17, 2017, 07:09:46 AM
attempt to erase history

How exactly is removal of a statue glorifying a general from the Civil War erasing history? I mean if we are talking about removal from all text-books, teaching methods, and curriculum, then sure, but a statue?

Is that how people think kids learn history these days?

Knowing our country's history does not require us to celebrate it. A statue is a celebration of an individual or ideal, a moment captured in physical medium meant to impart a message to those that see it.

A monument to a southern general, from one of our darkest most shameful times, is obscene to a certain degree. Neither side was entirely wrong or right in their actions leading up to, during, and in the conclusion of that national tragedy. Therefore, a monument that celebrates one-side inherently repeats those same exact mistakes our forefathers made.

Monuments from the Civil War should be glorifying how despite everything we had done to each other, despite the hate and bloodshed, we can still be one nation this day.

That is the only message we need memorialized. More people need to remember that, than the image of a general that oversaw the wholesale slaughter of men that should have been brethren.

Too much hate, too much anger, too much pride.

People need to grow up.