Asshole/Asshelmet With A Gun

[psiberzerker]

Psiberzerker- were you born with a penis or a vagina?

Not pursuant to this discussion.  Are you circumcised?

I would also like to see Licensing of firearms, for Carry.  Ownership in your home is one thing, carrying them in Public is another.

Just like Cars.  You can Own a Sherman, but you can't drive it down the street.

[Gunnerman19]

Psiberzerker-I am circumcised, it just so happens to be I was also born with a penis. Look if you were not born with a penis then I will identify your gender as you wish. I have bigger fish to fry and it’s a free country. I mean no disrespect nor do I want to debate gender or sexuality. I’m straight and as long as I can still put it where I want them why can’t others. If you were being attacked I’d have your back no matter what you think you are, you are still an equal human being!

[psiberzerker]

Byegones.  

What I'm saying is that we need a modern definition of Militia.  Without one, it can not be well Regulated.  Thoughts?

I also support public school firearm classes.  (Not In high schools, but as an elective, like any sports, and driver's ed.)

[Gunnerman19]

Psiberzerker-I would say I respectfully disagree because the founding fathers had things written pretty well and they were very intelligent. I don’t believe they thought that in 2 hundred years this would be easy...it wasn’t in their time either.
I would agree that there should be education for all students but I tend to disagree on the elective side. Reason being is that some kids may not choose to do it even tho their parents have firearms. If they see a firearm in their own home being used incorrectly I would hope they would say something. With the education there should be knowledge of what to look for in other students and all people. I believe there is more benefits than harm with it being as important as history.

[Gunnerman19]

Psiberzerker- I would be all for a marksman team tho as an elective.

[psiberzerker]

I would agree that there should be education for all students but I tend to disagree on the elective side. Reason being is that some kids may not choose to do it even tho their parents have firearms.

Right, but in that particular instance, the Parents are liable for their firearms, and their children.  The idea isn't more shooters.

It's better ones.  However, in a class of 200 students, you'd only need what 30 qualified students?  That's an Elective class.

With the education there should be knowledge of what to look for in other students and all people.

That's beyond the scope of High School Psychology students.  The profile should go to Teachers, especially Coaches, and Principals.  Many of those have College level (Developmental) Psychology, and they're Adults, responsible for Children.

Also, I'm not just talking Target Shooting.  If I were the Firearms Coach, we'd have the Kasarda Drill.  That's what I mean by "Well Regulated."

[Gunnerman19]

Psiberzerker-I think you misunderstood what I was saying and that could be because we didn’t discuss what the education would entail. I’m talking about basic firearm knowledge, safety, and operation. Leave out the shooting or limit it. Now as an elective I would say have a marksmanship team that focuses on fundamental of accurate shot placement. I don’t think there is any reason for students to be soldiers even at high school level.
I also completely agree that the firearm(s) and the child are the responsibility of the parents. Couldn’t agree more with that.

[Gunnerman19]

Psiberzerker-now as far as the psychology part of it. I know my 9 year old understands things to look for in people that could pose a threat. I have worked with him on identifying traits that most but not all “assholes” with a gun possess. I was able to understand at middle school age as far as I can remember. Plus it sets a bar that they can clearly see as to what’s acceptable and what isn’t. The sooner they can start learning from a class like I have spoke and speak of, I think the better. It would take some time to agree upon what should and shouldn’t be thought as well as who is qualified to teach such a class?
I do believe that this is “ finally doing something” like many have called for tho it’s not limiting what many believe is our rights.

[psiberzerker]

I’m talking about basic firearm knowledge, safety, and operation. Leave out the shooting or limit it. Now as an elective I would say have a marksmanship team that focuses on fundamental of accurate shot placement. I don’t think there is any reason for students to be soldiers even at high school level.

I also completely agree that the firearm(s) and the child are the responsibility of the parents. Couldn’t agree more with that.

Well, here's where there's room for discussion, we agree that Education is key, across the board for Second Amendment Rights.  Even when it comes to the "Overthrow Tyranny" purpose.  The government need not fear an Armed populance, but Armed, Trained, and Disciplined?

I'm not talking about making them Soldiers either, but part of it should be Firearm Fitness.  A lower impact form of the Kasarda Drill (Let's say 20lb kettelbel for boys, and 12lb for girls?  16 YO Juniors.)  Target shooting is okay, for what it is.  However, it's not very Practical when it comes to Defense.  Self Defense, home defense, school defense, state defense, or National defense.  

Kasarda Drills won't make you a Soldier, any more than it will train the spree shooters of tomorrow.  It just ensures that 1:  They can Handle a rifle.  Not just set it up on a Table.  2:  They can Carry a rifle, safely, even if they have to Run.  3: They can go Prone, and get back up with a rifle.  SAFELY.  4:  They can shoot under stress, because if you HAVE to Shoot.  It's going to be under stress.  It's not going to be safe targets that don't move, and shoot back.

Finally, it's Scorable.  (On the clock.)  I'd also have target shooting, and Bowling Pin.  That kind of stuff, but it's a SPORT.  Not a toy.

Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[psiberzerker]

I have worked with him on identifying traits that most but not all “assholes” with a gun possess.

Right, but that asshole is an asshole, with or without a Gun.  The same asshole can get behind the wheel of a muscle car, or a monster truck.  He can stuff other kids in a trashcan, locker or toilet.  He can kill some damned body with a knife over a game of scrabble.

It's not about the gun.  It's about the asshole.

[Gunnerman19]

Psiberzerker- marksmanship is something that can take a life time or more to master. Many choose to train to just good enough. In my view running with a rifle can wait. Even in a hunting situation running usually doesn’t work out. I see your point with the Kasarda drills but remain where I stand.
Where in this would you think that I went against what I said before about asshole will find a way? What we are talking about here is getting school aged kids recognizing a clear bar of acceptable behavior. Using gun training because currently the view is guns are the problem. Martial arts has been used in the same way...correct?

[psiberzerker]

Marksmanship is something that can take a life time or more to master.

Which is why you start early, when their Hand/Eye coordination is about it's peak.  (16-18)

What we are talking about here is getting school aged kids recognizing a clear bar of acceptable behavior.

Exactly my point.  However, children and even teens can't report an "Asshole with a gun," because there's still no guns in school.  Just Bullies.  

However, if EVERYONE receives Marksmanship Training, then it assures that All of the Assholes get guns.  If you make it an Elective, then repeated Violent behavior can be addressed, with Therapy.  Looking at the Future, if we get the Violent kids Therapy, the Deeply Disturbed (Incurable psychotics, like chronic Sociopaths, and sex offenders) out of general population, and teach the Good kids Gun Safety/Fitness, then we won't Need Background Checks.  That will all be sorted out in School.

Using gun training because currently the view is guns are the problem.

The current Political Debate is about Guns.  There's no consensus that that is the problem, but assholes are a problem, with or without guns.

[Gunnerman19]

Psiberzerker- I would say middle school age. My opinion on that.
As far as “assholes with a gun”... umm there have been plenty in the school setting. So kids don’t have a voice when it comes tho that stuff or that children can’t tell their teachers, parent or whoever that little jimmy got a gun...hmmm.
As an elective or not the same would be true on weeding out the bad apples. I explain my position on that.
Actually the firearms are being debated heavily as the problem. 30 round mags are debated (I believe you think they are not needed  in the civilian setting), pistol grips, semi-auto, bump stocks, etc. all being debated all over the place. Access to them by people that should not have them. Access to them and registration of them by law abiding citizens. Blanket statements such as people can’t be trusted with them. I actually know many that can and are trusted with them. That’s just of the people I know.

[Gunnerman19]

Psiberzerker-you made the comment earlier “make it harder for asshole to get mass murder guns”...Page 15 towards the top . Does that help you understand that the “guns” or firearms are being viewed as the problem? Honestly I’d like to know who makes that model of firearm.

[Gunnerman19]

Psiberzerker-who said everyone should get marksmanship training?

[psiberzerker]

Does that help you understand that the “guns” or firearms are being viewed as the problem? Honestly I’d like to know who makes that model of firearm.

Honestly?  Armalite, Colt...

Yaknow the ones they use in mass murders?  You realize that if you stab someone to death with a pencil, that it's the Murder Weapon, right?

If you commit Mass Murder with a gun.  That makes it a Mass Murder Gun.  In the wrong hands.

[Gunnerman19]

Psiberzerker- no it doesn’t. I see how many go after firearms manufacturers and the nra with views such as that tho. I guess one could use what I said about a gun being as good or bad as the person using it and call it as you have but if someone uses a car as a tool to mass kill I’m pretty sure you just call it a car and focus hard on the person driving. Seem a bit fucked up to me.
Okay so is it fair to say we agree on training for firearm safety and basic operation and knowledge?  We differ in area of age and if it should be an elective or not. We differ in that you see a need for Kasarda drills. I think they need to be students, not soldiers. As an after school activity like you said such as sports okay well whatever is decided.
Now let’s move on to your previous comment that is relevant. Training for that “ militia” or those that will be protecting the children in schools. You don’t seem to think untrained and unprepared (completely forgetting our discussion about 30 round mags here for the moment) women or men should be protecting our children. I would agree as well. You mentioned indiscriminate fire and IFF. So you are for protecting our students using trained people...do I understand that? Also you spoke about response time. Does that mean these trained people should or should not be in the school in your view? I running off of memory here so I apologize if I don’t get it exactly how you typed it.
 

[psiberzerker]

I guess one could use what I said about a gun being as good or bad as the person using it and call it as you have but if someone uses a car as a tool to mass kill I’m pretty sure you just call it a car and focus hard on the person driving.

You're being obtuse.  When you kill someone with something, the investigators call that the Murder Weapon regardless of whether it's a .25 caliber mouse gun, or a Rocket Launcher.  You've heard that, right?  That's what I ment, when I said "Mass Murder Guns."  In the hands of a Mass Murderer, certain guns make it easier for them to commit Mass Murder.  I was talking about keeping these guns out of the hands of Mass Murderers, so that they're not used to comitt Mass Murder.

If a drunk driver runs over a child on a scooter in the street, they don't let them drive again after that, right?  They have proven that the mixture of car keys, alcohol, and their hands is potentially deadly.  

Also you spoke about response time. Does that mean these trained people should or should not be in the school in your view? I running off of memory here so I apologize if I don’t get it exactly how you typed it.

It really depends on the school.  Each one has it's own layout, entry, and exit points, potential overlooks for a "Sniper" (Not going into the technicalities of that military term) and so forth.  I also said that the shooting competitions probably wouldn't be on School Property, but before you ask, the reason for this is that most schools are not equipped for Safe shooting ranges.  So, rather than retrofit say the Football Field with bullet traps (The Kasarda Drill requires 100 yards) it would be better, and more economical just to load them up on the bus, and drive them to the local shooting range.  Which is set up for shooting.

As for protecting schools, from shooters without having ANY guns on campus?  That's obviously absurd.  Even having Shooting classes (Oh yeah, and .22s.  Not .223s.)  would probably mean having a gun locker, to store the team's guns, and ammo.  Even if a punk kid gets caught with a zip-gun, and it's confiscated, it's still kept on School Property until the police come and get it.  It really depends on the school, how best to defend it, as with any building or complex.

[Gunnerman19]

Psiberzerker-I may seem obtuse but it’s that this is a battle I choose not to fight at the moment. Of course it’s a murder weapon. How do you think the people out there with little knowledge of firearms take to a firearm being described as “mass murder gun”?

[psiberzerker]

How do you think the people out there with little knowledge of firearms take to a firearm being described as “mass murder gun”?

I don't know, I haven't even heard that, let alone from them.

I'm here, now, and you can't call me a person with little knowledge of firearms.