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Asshole/Asshelmet With A Gun

Athos_131 · 20610

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Offline Gunnerman19

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Reply #220 on: September 23, 2019, 08:35:38 PM
Psiberzerker-you said “you can’t say they are not targeted”. Where did I say that? If you reread my post I used different wording. Yet again bud anyone with one eye and half an asshole can read back for themselves to verify my wording. In Idaho the state that I live in, there is a little town call Moscow. Some dipshit decided to shoot up the county Shariff office and did end up killing a officer. Of course it happens. You are correct that it’s not that likely. Explosives also caused one of our countries worst attack on schools as well. If you look that up you will see. That doesn’t change a thing. Doesn’t matter what a person uses.
Cool you own firearms.  Is there a reason you chose to inform me of that?



psiberzerker

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Reply #221 on: September 23, 2019, 08:40:24 PM
Cool you own firearms.  Is there a reason you chose to inform me of that?

Yes, for IFF.



Offline Gunnerman19

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Reply #222 on: September 23, 2019, 08:44:32 PM
Psiberzerker-hahaha shifting the goal post. Seem we were on topic and I posted that it didn’t matter what they used it will still happen. I let you know that I would be willing to make you look like an idiot when it come to military strategy. Think I was pretty fair in my commenting.



Offline Gunnerman19

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Reply #223 on: September 23, 2019, 08:47:16 PM
ID friend or foe. What are you looking for? Three letters could mean lots of different shit



psiberzerker

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Reply #224 on: September 23, 2019, 08:50:00 PM
Identification:  Friend, or Foe

In military Operations (Between Strategy, and Tactics) we have the technology right now to avoid "Friendly Fire."

"Friendly Fire" is like "Civil War," a contradiction in terms.  In very simplified (Civilian) terms, it's a Signal system, not unlike Radar, only instead of bouncing your signal off of me, you send a coded signal, I receive it, then I send a coded signal back, to confirm I'm a Friend.  Online, in Civilian terms, that's called a Handshake.

Or, there's the old fashioned method, run in shooting, which tends to make EVERYONE your enemy.  That's your Spree Shooter.  All tactical, no Strategy.

Another similar signal system is the Forward Observer, who has a rifle shaped emitter, to Paint a target as an Enemy.  In online terminology, that's called a Straw-man Argument.

I'll let you chose, then.  You said something about finding "Common Ground" in another thread.  I'm a gun owner, in Texas, a Veteran, and IDENTIFIED myself as an asshole.

How about you?
« Last Edit: September 23, 2019, 08:53:37 PM by psiberzerker »



Offline Gunnerman19

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Reply #225 on: September 23, 2019, 08:56:04 PM
Start a new thread and tell me you started it and what to look for. Let’s leave this one to what it was started for. If not I will not answer. You seem to think you’re on some kind of witch hunt...this could be a fun game.



psiberzerker

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Reply #226 on: September 23, 2019, 09:02:58 PM
You seem to think you’re on some kind of witch hunt...this could be a fun game.

What gave you that idea, and what kinds of "Witches" do you believe I seem to be on the hunt for?

Again, I'm on the hunt for an interesting conversation, not a fight, and not a victim to burn at the stake.  

You want to change the subject?  Pick one, you don't even have to tag me in it, I will probably see it...



psiberzerker

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Reply #227 on: September 23, 2019, 09:06:33 PM
One of the major defects, in these Assholes with Guns appear to be IFF.  A gun makes them even more dangerous if they're so delusional that they believe that shooting children in school does anything for their cause.  Or Immigrants, or white people with tans, and dark enough hair to mistake for Immigrants.  Or Muslims, or people that "Look Muslim" like Sihks...

As a matter of fact, that's a pretty good sign that you might be dealing with an Asshole, if they don't differentiate between Friend, and Foe very well.  With, or without a gun, but with one, they can kill a whole lot more "Enemies" than without.



Offline Gunnerman19

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Reply #228 on: September 23, 2019, 09:28:24 PM
Psiberzerker-I think we can agree that a firearm makes it much easier to kill a person (child or otherwise) than say a bow and arrow. What is you stance of firearms? What do you believe needs to be done if guns make it so much easier?
You said “one of the major defects” and explained how you view that one. So what other defects do you see?



psiberzerker

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Reply #229 on: September 23, 2019, 09:32:54 PM
What do you believe needs to be done if guns make it so much easier?

Make it harder for assholes to get Mass Murder guns.  Keep in mind, not all guns are created equal, to the same purpose.  If we're talking Self Defense, or even GGWAG stop that spree shooter, than 10 rounds is PLENTY for that.  "If I need more than 6 shots," of .357, "I'm probably already dead."  ~Elmer Keith.  30 rounds is overkill, and overkill is one of the major malfs I mentioned earlier.

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You said “one of the major defects” and explained how you view that one. So what other defects do you see?

For mass murderers, specifically?  Poor Impulse Control, that's another one.  You want the full profile?  Because honestly, that's how we are going to stop the Spree Shooters:  Getting the full profile to the right people.



Offline Gunnerman19

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Reply #230 on: September 23, 2019, 09:48:37 PM
Psiberzerker-who says 10 rounds is plenty. I see you quoting Elmer but that’s an opinion. Engaging an enemy is not always so clear cut, especially if you have no idea how many enemies there are. As far as your good guys with a gun, if you are in the mall and someone attacks, what is your main goal? Protect me and mine. After they are protected you may make the choice to engage or reengage but by then the conflict is most likely over. It takes as many rounds as it takes. Limiting that limits both sides but to remain legal only one side follows the law.



psiberzerker

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Reply #231 on: September 23, 2019, 10:01:08 PM
Psiberzerker-who says 10 rounds is plenty.

I did specifically for the application of Self Defense.  It's not plenty for every possible application, but 30 rounds is overkill for any Civilian application.

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I see you quoting Elmer but that’s an opinion.

It's a pretty damned qualified opinion.  You rather Jeff Cooper?  Because he helped write the Brady Bill.

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Engaging an enemy is not always so clear cut, especially if you have no idea how many enemies there are.

Okay, but how many enemies are you expecting at once, 5?  Let's say you double-tap, and miss occasionally.  In a 5-on-1 altercation, by the time you accurately fire 10 rounds, you better have made some progress towards your tactical disadvantage, because I don't care if they're in wheelchairs with field hockey sticks, and you've got a semi-auto carbine?  You're still pretty fucked.  

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As far as your good guys with a gun, if you are in the mall and someone attacks, what is your main goal?

Survival.  Then Cover.  Then IFF, then Collateral Damage.

I learned that in the Army.  With an M-4, and a fire simulator clamped to the muzzle.

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Limiting that limits both sides but to remain legal only one side follows the law.

Okay, yeah but that side, that doesn't GAF about the gun laws?  They don't GAF about murder, robbery, and drug laws either.  Agreed?  Okay, then they can bash your skull in from behind with a brickbat before you even clear your holster, disengage the safety, and bring it to battery, let alone line up the sites on a target.  He can end the fight in 1 round, because he's the first one who knows he's in a firefight.

THERE IS NO FAIR STREET FIGHT.  And if it requires more than 10 rounds between reloads (If you carry 2 spare mags?  That's your 30 rounds) YOU ARE ALREADY FUCKED.  Rambo is fucked.  John McClain is fucked.  As a matter of fact, the entire premise of those 2 movies is that the protagonist is fucked, and somehow wins out against impossible odds, right?

Your average citizen does not require more than 10 rounds for self defense.  I'll look up the study, by Jeff Fucking Cooper, which led to the 10mm and the .40 S&W as well as the Brady Ban.

You're not just arguing with me, you're also arguing with Elmer Keith, and Jeff Cooper.  Oddly enough Sun Tsu didn't weigh in on high capacity semi-automatics.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2019, 10:19:17 PM by psiberzerker »



psiberzerker

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Reply #232 on: September 23, 2019, 10:29:54 PM
How about this quote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxgybgEKHHI

Notice the name tags, on the table?  Both Senators.  One of them Amy Klobuchar, who's planning on running against Donald "Take the guns, then go to court" Trump.



Offline Gunnerman19

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Reply #233 on: September 23, 2019, 10:57:28 PM
Psiberzerker- You sure like to quote others. What happens when things don’t go as planned. You are only looking at it from past and current situations. The 2nd amendment was written by some pretty intelligent people who didn’t limit it. They knew technology would progress. They saw lots of terrible things in their time  as well. We don’t always know who are enemies are nor how many or how well prepared they are for what they have decide to go forward with. Never underestimate. Putting a limit on mag size or types of guns owned is a sure way of finding out exactly what’s needed. May not be today or tomorrow and it may not be by those you fear.



psiberzerker

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Reply #234 on: September 23, 2019, 11:14:22 PM
What happens when things don’t go as planned.

Things never go perfectly according to plan.  

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You are only looking at it from past and current situations. The 2nd amendment was written by some pretty intelligent people who didn’t limit it.

The second amendment was written 200 years in the past.  I can't look at Future situations, because they don't exist for study yet.

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They knew technology would progress.

We knew it would progress, too.  They had Mortars in the 19th century, right?  So, do you think "A well regulated militia" means Mortars for all?  

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We don’t always know who are enemies are nor how many or how well prepared they are for what they have decide to go forward with.

No one ever has, and barring a global Hive Mind, or some other situation that would effectively be the end of Humanity as we know it, we never will.  Right now, we have ALL of human history, and science available, and we still have people who think the Earth is Flat, on the internet.  The problem is, and always has been that people aren't perfect.

You are a people.  So am I.  Neither of us is perfect, but this gunslinger self defense strategy is that kind of Delusion:  You're talking about "What if there's 5 or more attackers?"

YOU'RE FUCKED.

Period.  With a 30 round magazine, or a Ma Deuce.  If you have a Browning Heavy Machinegun in the back of a pickup truck, and nobody to drive it, you're technically (Pardon the pun) fucked 5-on-1.  Even if they have hand thrown bricks.  The defense against 5-on-1s isn't moar dakka, it's Awareness.  

If you get jumped by 5 armed assailants, and you have to shoot your way out, you failed to see that coming.  You put yourself in that situation, and I hate to be the one to tell you this, but it's too late to fight your way out of it.

If you're there with your family?  They can help you fight.

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Never underestimate.

Never underestimate, what?  You?  Me?  I don't assume that I can shoot my way out of any situation, I know my abilities, and do everything in my power not to fuck myself that badly in the first place.  It kept me alive in the Siege of Sarajevo.

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Putting a limit on mag size or types of guns owned is a sure way of finding out exactly what’s needed.

That's right, it did.  We had the Federal Assault Weapons Ban for 10 years, from 1994 until 2004, and you know what?  The world didn't come to an end.  I didn't see any stories from that era where "If only I had 5 more rounds, I would have been able to protect my family," and I lived through that ban.  I went to warzones during that ban.

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May not be today or tomorrow and it may not be by those you fear.

Do I sound like a coward to you?  Did I say something, to give you the impression that Fear is something I indulge over much?
« Last Edit: September 23, 2019, 11:20:23 PM by psiberzerker »



Offline Gunnerman19

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Reply #235 on: September 23, 2019, 11:14:46 PM
Psiberzerker-“no fair street fight” yet you want to make sure it’s in the enemies favor. You are correct only in saying no fair street fight but I will say again...never underestimate. Many lives have been lost that way. See that’s not a quote or opinion...it’s fact.
Hahaha I like how you say I’m arguing with Jeff and Elmer. No of the the 3...just you at the moment hahaha.



Offline Gunnerman19

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Reply #236 on: September 23, 2019, 11:17:06 PM
Psiberzerker-How was the word “regulated” used in your opinion?



psiberzerker

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Reply #237 on: September 23, 2019, 11:30:11 PM
“no fair street fight” yet you want to make sure it’s in the enemies favor.

Not at all.  Even if the "Enemies" have 30 round magazines, and I have 10?  It comes down to the numbers of People on each side.  Not the number of Bullets.

You remember my example of 5 guys, in wheelchairs, with field hockey sticks?  That's a real world test, I did, against a DAV Field Hockey Team, with a paintball gun.

I got my ass kicked, over, and over again, and I never even got 8 rounds off.  2 against 1, you're fucked.  3 against 1, you're fucked.  For all practical purposes, if you have 30 rounds, you won't get off the first 9 rounds, against 3 attackers.  

Regardless of how they're armed.  I'm talking about Experience, and Testing.  Now, would you like to talk about Force Multiplication?  Because you're not going to convince me that any civilian needs more than 10 rounds between reloads, because it's been tested, and suggested by Jeff Cooper.

BTW, when he wrote that report for the FBI?  The question wasn't Civilian Self Defense.  They asked him what the bare minimum for Law Enforcement was.  Cops, and detectives. (Not counting SWAT, and Counter-Terrorism)  This isn't a quote, it's an Expert Opinion, and I defy you to tell me that Jeff Cooper isn't an Expert.

10 rounds.  10mm.  200 grains.  At least 1,000FPS.  (Feet Per Second.)  They wanted to make sure that the FBI had enough firepower, to fight crime, and still follow the Brady Bill.

If that's not good enough for you, nothing ever will be.  

Overkill.



psiberzerker

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Reply #238 on: September 23, 2019, 11:33:28 PM
Psiberzerker-How was the word “regulated” used in your opinion?

As it applied to the Militia, and the Security of the State.  It never referred to Civilian Self Defense.  At least use all of the operative words in that quote.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2019, 11:37:44 PM by psiberzerker »



Offline Gunnerman19

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Reply #239 on: September 23, 2019, 11:45:24 PM
Psiberzerker-“Things never go as planned” and “I can’t look at future situations because they don’t exist yet”...right!! So limiting yourself to the trouble of today is fucking stupid as hell. Thanks for proving the point. Many situations have happened throughout history where the odds were against someone or a group of people, military, police, and civilians where they were “fucked” but even with the odds the came out on top. You like you movies but bringing that into play here is ridiculous. Pretty sure you don’t believe everything you see on tv...maybe you do haha.
You speak of experience yet you experiences you use are yours. There are hundreds of accounts that yes you can look up and verify where 3 to 1 odds was no problem. I don’t have to use any experience I’ve had to prove that either but there have been multiple times I’ve take on more than one. I don’t give two shit if it’s in battle or in civilian life, when shit hits the fan you want as much ammo as you can and still be mobile. You are and idiot if you think everyone if fuck. Sure there are situations where I would agree, there always are. That’s why we try to not underestimate what we are going up against  Numb nuts