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Racism is alive and well, Thanks Trump and his supporters!

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Offline joan1984

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Reply #1000 on: February 15, 2019, 04:01:43 PM
  Remarkable how clear some believe they understand another's Slogan.

  When yelled in the frozen streets, by the two Nigerian show extras in Chicago, all of us instantly knew what the white thugs were saying, right, am I right?

  Those two guys from a Chicago suburb, took a LYFT into town, hoping to spot a known acting STAR, and finding one, they recognized him instantly, called him out about his Race and Sexual Preferences, and told him Chicago is MAGA country. Right? Am I right?

  Clearly they knew their favorite Slogan would translate clearly to a actor, and just to be sure, they added a length of Ace Hardware clothesline, left the actor with his working cell phone, which had been recording the exchange, and left him with his freshly purchased Subway footlong sandwich as well (or did he shop for his sandwich, while wearing the clothesline, after the thugs ran off?

  So many facts, can be confusing. I am sure Chicago Police will get to the bottom of it all, and somehow I think the "MAGA" quote will not be a big part.

Some people are like the 'slinky'. Not really good for much,
but they bring a smile to your face as they fall down stairs.


Offline joan1984

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Reply #1001 on: February 15, 2019, 04:16:28 PM
Please explain how "President Trump has set back our country for at least 60 years for minority people". Please be specific, if possible.

Actions taken to date, such as withdrawal from the Paris Accord, are occurring while our Nation continues to conserve, striving for the same goals in every way, as we did while more formally embracing the Paris Accord. Net change, ZERO, except we have freedom to choose, to decide, to do as we wish to do.

NATO is much the same, except now, some slow to commit, slow to pay their obligations to which those nations freely agreed, now make some attempt to pay their rightful dues, living up, or closer to their agreements.

Enforcement of the Nation's Laws is the obligation of every Presidential Administration, and if there is a difference, it is that President Trump takes such law enforcement seriously, while others may have given different emphasis, or ignored some laws, and were not taken to task for such lax behavior.

Legal Immigration continues apace, daily new Citizens take their oaths, and are encouraged in this regard.

The excellent nature of our Economy, due to actions and revisions by this Administration, has resulted in more Americans, and more legal immigrants, working than ever before, certainly since the early Bush years and beyond.

Blacks, Hispanics, Women, everyone is benefiting, or could benefit if they chose to work.

I just am not seeing a setback for anyone who is welcome in this country.
Certainly not for any reason of race or color or 'minority' status, that is different, or any worse, than what folks may have encountered before President Trump, whether at his control or not.


Well at least "The Donald" will be only a one term president.
The only problem for the next president is that he / she will be spending the next four years repairing what "The "Donald" did to this country and to our allies in general.
The next president will have a huge job ahead of him / her.
Lets face it "The Donald" set this country back at least 60 years for minority people.

Love,
Liz

Some people are like the 'slinky'. Not really good for much,
but they bring a smile to your face as they fall down stairs.


psiberzerker

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Reply #1002 on: February 15, 2019, 04:19:33 PM
Excuse me, and as I recall, I have not characterized the President's Election Campaign Slogan(s) at all.

Trump AND his Supporters.  That would be You.  You take all his talking points, about those people not being people, but criminals.  That's a Trump supporter being racist.  Dehumanizing people based on where they come from, yearning to be free.

If you make America great (He hasn't) then everyone will want to be American, again.



Offline joan1984

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Reply #1003 on: February 15, 2019, 04:57:30 PM
You choose to expound, presume and ascribe motives and meanings, twisting what is, until it no longer resembles itself, then condemning the strawman you have created. Not placing blame, just saying, taking your own interests, worries and whatever, and finding ways to interpret a Campaign Slogan to fit what you wish it fit more neatly... once it is different, then you condemn it.... of course.

Methinks this is part of how we talk past one another, often, that and a refusal to accept the result of the 2016 election.

Meanwhile, understand that I do not share your motives, presumptions, and such. So, many who enjoy President Trump at times, as he stumbles through the word salads necessary to make himself clear, understand that he can be trusted to do the correct things, by whatever means is necessary, for the betterment of America.

The Democrats are lost, no worry of mine anyway, and the Republicans who believe the latest offering is in the best interest of the United States of America need to be "Primaried" and replaced, as quickly as may be possible.

I sincerely hope the President does not race into the signing of this legislation, at least taking the time to VET the legislation, including every word, every comma, then demanding as needed a cleaned up version, and a CR to allow such time as may be necessary to insure that the enemy within, enemies from all parties who pushed this legislation through without sufficient debate and airing, are unable to shove down our throats such that cannot be tolerated.


Excuse me, and as I recall, I have not characterized the President's Election Campaign Slogan(s) at all.

Trump AND his Supporters.  That would be You.  You take all his talking points, about those people not being people, but criminals.  That's a Trump supporter being racist.  Dehumanizing people based on where they come from, yearning to be free.

If you make America great (He hasn't) then everyone will want to be American, again.

Some people are like the 'slinky'. Not really good for much,
but they bring a smile to your face as they fall down stairs.


psiberzerker

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Reply #1004 on: February 15, 2019, 05:41:28 PM
You choose to expound, presume and ascribe motives and meanings, twisting what is, until it no longer resembles itself, then condemning the strawman you have created.

You're not concealing it very well.  Think of the word Illegal.  What color is that?  What color is "Criminal," not people?  I'm not adding anything to your rhetoric, it is racist rhetoric, that's why we (Not just me who's noticed it) keep pressing you about the White illegals.  The Canadian border, and the other issues you gloss over in this blatant, explicit condempt for the victims of racism.

Don't write racist rhetoric (Or regurgitate it after you swallow what's shoved down your throat by your racist heros) and we won't have any to read in it.  Stop being the poster child of racist Trump supporters, and we'll stop having to point it out to you.  The only one that doesn't seem to realize how racist you sound.  You don't want to sound racist, but you do.  Blatantly, obviously, uninterpretably.  Probably because you get your news, and narratives from unabashed white supremacists like the bleached blonde talking heads at Fox News, and the great orange one, with his Eastern European Immigrant wives he cheats on.

He can afford legal immigration.  If he wants a wall, he and his friends can afford to build it, but unless you're that fucking gullible, the rest of US ain't buying it.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 05:47:12 PM by psiberzerker »



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Reply #1005 on: February 15, 2019, 05:48:35 PM

Well at least "The Donald" will be only a one term president.


I urge you to think back to the Summer and early Fall of 2016. The time when the seemingly universal opinion was that Trump would never be elected president. Read (or re-read) the many posts right here on KB, where it was firmly asserted that Clinton would win handily, even by a landslide, and where even the possibility of Trump winning was barely even mentioned, and when it was mentioned, it was immediately dismissed.

Then ask yourself two questions:

1) Who won the 2016 presidential election?
2) Which approach will prove more successful: Reverting back to the failed strategies of 2016, or developing a new approach that focuses on the specific candidate, and not his or her opponent?




Lets face it "The Donald" set this country back at least 60 years for minority people.


In what ways has Trump "set this country back at least 60 years for minority people"? Can you point to anything specific in terms of legislation he signed, or presidential proclamations he has issued?

If anything, Trumps policies and proclamations have -- inadvertently and ironically -- proven a boon to "minority people." They have focused a spotlight on minorities, and the instances where their rights may have been violated or denied, and they have engendered a positive national discussion. And, perhaps most to the point, they have exposed the troglodytic [sic] deniers of rights as unacceptable outliers.






"Sometimes the best things in life are a hot girl and a cold beer."



psiberzerker

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Reply #1006 on: February 15, 2019, 05:55:01 PM
If anything, Trumps policies and proclamations have -- inadvertently and ironically -- proven a boon to "minority people." They have focused a spotlight on minorities, and the instances where their rights may have been violated or denied, and they have engendered a positive national discussion. And, perhaps most to the point, they have exposed the troglodytic [sic] deniers of rights as unacceptable outliers.

Excellent point.  Unintentional as it may be, he's not only shewn a spotlight on the plight of Americans, but he's also emboldened the Racists so they came out of the woodwork.  We had no idea how bad our white supremacy problem was, until the cowards got brave enough to march down the streets, waving their conflicting flags together.

Now we know who the enemy is among us.  It's the Nationalists, in spite of, or even because of him pointing the finger at the Mexicans.  It's obviously not the Mexicans, to anyone with 2 neurons to rub together.  They don't have enough power to ruin the economy.  The wealthy elite do.



Offline Elizabeth

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Reply #1007 on: February 15, 2019, 05:55:31 PM
He does need to "sign anything".....his actions, his words inflame crowds against minorities. This country left the 60's behind and started down a road of equality for all, now with Donald we are seeing a resurgence of hate that has not been seen since the 60's (the only difference is now we have become more of an equal opportunity haters...). We are not moving ahead, we are moving backwards.

Love,
Liz



psiberzerker

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Reply #1008 on: February 15, 2019, 05:57:51 PM
We are not moving ahead, we are moving backwards.

We were until the mid-terms.  It looks like (Too early to tell) we've stopped it.  We're not yet turning it around to Progress, but we've at least started to.  IMNSHO.



Offline Elizabeth

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Reply #1009 on: February 15, 2019, 06:05:54 PM
We are not moving ahead, we are moving backwards.

We were until the mid-terms.  It looks like (Too early to tell) we've stopped it.  We're not yet turning it around to Progress, but we've at least started to.  IMNSHO.

I'm hopping that it would turn around......
But as you stated only time will tell.

I'm dropping out of this conversation, simply because I don't think that we should speak for the minorities (Jews, Blacks, Mexicans and a host of others).....They would be the ones that would tell you what they are suffering. Economics does not mean a damn thing when your church is vandalized, you are being beaten by a crowd, or just plain shot because of your skin color...... It's on the increase, not decrease.....but don't ask me, ask a minority member.....they will be the ones who will tell you the truth.

Love,
Liz
 



Offline Jed_

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Reply #1010 on: February 15, 2019, 06:11:52 PM


Methinks this is part of how we talk past one another, often, that and a refusal to accept the result of the 2016 election.




Actually, recent events could mostly be characterized as a refusal to accept the 2018 election.



Offline Athos_131

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Reply #1011 on: February 15, 2019, 06:25:17 PM
Yellow Wall got really defensive, didn't it?

Funny how a little deodorizing sunshine does that.

Apparently they find it bad form to called the bigots that they are.

#Resist

#BlackLivesMatter
Arrest The Cops Who Killed Breonna Taylor

#BanTheNaziFromKB


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Reply #1012 on: February 15, 2019, 06:32:18 PM


If anything, Trumps policies and proclamations have -- inadvertently and ironically -- proven a boon to "minority people." They have focused a spotlight on minorities, and the instances where their rights may have been violated or denied, and they have engendered a positive national discussion. And, perhaps most to the point, they have exposed the troglodytic [sic] deniers of rights as unacceptable outliers.


Excellent point.  Unintentional as it may be, he's not only shewn a spotlight on the plight of Americans, but he's also emboldened the Racists so they came out of the woodwork.  We had no idea how bad our white supremacy problem was, until the cowards got brave enough to march down the streets, waving their conflicting flags together.


While it's highly debatable whether or not Trump has "emboldened the Racists," even if he did 'embolden them," the results prove my point. These "emboldened racists" (or White nationalists, or Neo-Confederates, or White supremacists or anti-Semites, etc.) have only succeeded in exposing themselves as extreme outliers. The second they popped their heads out of their holes, they opened themselves up to ridicule and condemnation.

To my mind, the most important, and least commented-upon, aspect of the infamous Charlottesville Rally was precisely this. The rally did not, contrary to the popular opinion, reveal a hidden, powerful, and deep-seated group of White nationalists, or Neo-Confederates, or White supremacists or anti-Semites, etc. It revealed that these White nationalists, or Neo-Confederates, or White supremacists or anti-Semites, etc. were surprisingly few in number, almost completely powerless, utterly lacking in influence, and patentently ridiculous.

We have no White supremacy problem in the U.S. today. We had a White supremacy problem at many points in our past. After all, we elected -- and re-elected -- a man who was an outspoken White supremacist to the White House, a man whom many today consider one of our greatest presidents. And the second iteration of the Ku Klux Klan, which widened its focus from Blacks to anyone who wasn't deemed pure enough (e.g. Jews, Catholics, immigrants, etc.), flourished not just in the South, but in places like Pennsylvania, Indiana, and Upstate New York.

But today, we have no White supremacy problem. Sure, White supremacists still exist, and the advent and near omnipresence of social media today allows their distaff views to be read by hundreds of millions of people. But White supremacists today are less a problem than at any other point in our nation's history.

Again, let's go back to Charlottesville. The rally, was very well planned and very well organized, beginning months in advance. A wide number of these distaff groups were invited, and many arrangements were made, including car pools, local accommodations, and the like. People from many groups game from many states to participate in the rally. And how many "cowards got brave enough to march down the streets, waving their conflicting flags together"? Liberal estimates put their number around 200 people. 200 people, from a country of 375 million people. That percentage is so small it's almost impossible to calculate.






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Reply #1013 on: February 15, 2019, 06:41:45 PM
I'm dropping out of this conversation, simply because I don't think that we should speak for the minorities (Jews, Blacks, Mexicans and a host of others)

Fair enough, that's your perogative.  However, we don't have to speak for minorities to speak as progressive white people, trying to turn away from the bigotry, and atrocities of the "Great" old days.  Segregation wasn't great.  Slavery, and Manifest Destiny went against the core beliefs of this nation, all men being created equal, as a self evident Truth, in no uncertain terms.  Without African Americans, First Nations, or Latin people here to apologize to, we can hold racists to task, and urge them to rethink the assumptions that enable, and ignore the crimes of White Supremacists, while in the same sentence characterize PEOPLE as "Criminals."
« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 06:44:45 PM by psiberzerker »



Offline joan1984

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Reply #1014 on: February 15, 2019, 06:42:09 PM
  There is a lot wrong with the world, and the country, and I see the #whatabout dialog, which often is cast as a way to turn the conversation elsewhere, rather than to open additional conversations.

  Illegal activity is of concern wherever it occurs. Canadians forming gigantic caravans and herding their young children across farmland and woodlands, in order to fulfill some technical legislative loophole that will let them stay in our Nation, for whatever length of time, to learn how to speak English (from French, for instance), to make them wards of the State forever, and then to honor 'the children' after some time and bring in their entire extended family from grinding Canadian poverty, carrying whatever sickness or plague, whatever, just dump it here... except, that is not happening so much today.

  Bleeding; Breathing; Poison; Shock... Ropefiend knows where this is going, no doubt... one must prioritize, and put the first and maximum efforts where the trouble is greatest, and the urgency demands action NOW...

  Such a simple premise, to construct a barrier which by itself is so formidable as to discourage extended foot and vehicle travel, seeking a way over it, and under it, and through it, with whatever contraband a criminal wishes to bypass legal entry to our Nation. Build a effective, fully effective, WALL, to slow down and allow the flood of those seeking entry into the United States, across the Southern Border where the NEED is URGENT, so all enter legitimately.

  Are there other solutions? Of course. Should we prevent travel in remote areas of the Border by placing effective preventative measures such as is done at many nations borders? Mines and other forms of deadly response?

  Whatever becomes necessary to gain control and STOP unauthorized entry, is where we need to go. Either we have borders or we do not have borders. Very simple, actually, and worth extreme efforts to control and enforce, and prevent unauthorized, unwanted, illegal trespass entirely.  One giant step at a time, until it is done.

  Canada as a porous border may not be overlooked, far from it, and I trust we are expending the necessary time and attention to maintain control over all unauthorized entry, trespass by anyone without authorization. This is not an extreme position, it is a natural and reasonable position.

  People live in homes or apartment buildings, with doors, and people lock said doors, so as to have some assurance of control of entry to those authorized. In a less safe, more hostile environment, such as in my City, Washington, DC, we pay for and maintain metal bars or grates on accessible windows, skylights, and doors, for the same reason. We add lighting, in an attempt to shame away those who would dawdle, seeking to find unauthorized entry in less street visible areas, alley ways, rooftops, and so forth. We add NOISE alarms for the same reason, to shame away such who may be tempted to break the law, and make unauthorized entry, and then who knows what mayhem may be planned.

  Further we employ security measures, beyond the Alarms and Bars/Gates, Lights, and to that end, we maintain a large, 24/7 presence of Police Officers, for good measure.  The District of Columbia has at least 28 different armed Police Organizations within the 7 Square Mile footprint of my city.

  DC is a nice town... imagine living where it is less nice... It would be intolerable without taking the steps and precautions we individually take here, to make our life least filled with drama, by those living and passing around us.

  So, yes, I am aware of problems, and in the case of defending our Southern Border, the solutions are many, and ALL need to be put into place, the WALL being the most passive, neutral, non-confrontational, un-race-related solution of the bunch. The wall simply makes seemingly futile the effort it takes to pass in some manner other than the intended legal ports of entry.

  We can and hopefully do, and I support doing, all the additional items that make sense so the Country may contain and have knowledge of all residents.
People who are not here as 'authorized' need to be removed, sent elsewhere, in a humane and not costly manner, and the WALL, along with additional expensive prevention methods and systems, can hopefully maintain entry for any who enter to be with authorization. Period.

Some people are like the 'slinky'. Not really good for much,
but they bring a smile to your face as they fall down stairs.


psiberzerker

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Reply #1015 on: February 15, 2019, 06:45:07 PM
 :roll:

The border states were Mexico, before we invaded them.  Immigrants, European Americans, legally or not annexed Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California.  That's why there's all those Spanish names along the areas you people seek to wall off, and make "More American."  San Diego was founded by Mexicans.  So was Nogales, and El Paso, Laredo, these are not English names.  They are not, never were, and realistically never will be White America.  

Ask Beto, he's from there.  Don't listen to the crowds the Schyster in Cheif had brought in from other states to chant what he wanted to hear.  Those weren't Texans, those were Shills, reading from a script.  They weren't New Mexicans, either.  They were yankees, imported to a whole 'nother country to extend the echo chamber for that publicity stunt.  That rally was straight up scripted "Reality TV" complete with Actors.  Saying what he wanted you to hear.

You missed Beto's rally, didn't you?  "Fake News," so it wasn't publicized.

Canadians speak English.  French Canadians also speak French, but English is an official language in Canada.  Apparently, you didn't learn any more about our northern neighbors than our southern ones.  By the same "Logic" you should be going down to New Orleans, and telling the Cajuns to speak 'Merican too.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 06:50:04 PM by psiberzerker »



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Reply #1016 on: February 15, 2019, 06:48:53 PM

He does need to "sign anything".....his actions, his words inflame crowds against minorities. This country left the 60's behind and started down a road of equality for all, now with Donald we are seeing a resurgence of hate that has not been seen since the 60's (the only difference is now we have become more of an equal opportunity haters...). We are not moving ahead, we are moving backwards.

Love,
Liz


I've heard assertions like that hundreds, if not thousands of times. And repeating it over and over does not make it any more true.

The fact that these hate-filled people have become more and more exposed -- chiefly through the omnipresence of social media -- in no ways means that they are growing in number, or in influence. It means exactly what I stated above: Their exposure has made them more and more outliers, and more and more exposed them to condemnation and ridiculed. If anything has increased, it's the opposition to this point of view, and an exploding social nonacceptance or them and everything they represent.

And you need to be careful when making comparisons with the 1960s. Especially given the fact that in the 1960s, some states denied -- in the face of federal law -- basic rights to Black Americans. Have you seen the movie "Hidden Figures?" Do you recall those famous pictures of Governor Wallace personally barring black students entry into the University of Alabama? Have you seen the movies "Mississippi Burning" and "Ghosts of Mississippi"? Do you remember how three of the nations leading Civil Rights leaders were murdered (and do you know that one of the assassins was acquitted of his crime by a state jury)?

Is THAT what the U.S. is like today?






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Offline joan1984

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Reply #1017 on: February 15, 2019, 06:54:33 PM
  Reality is, we have a Southern Border, and it must be defended, and it must be enforced against unwanted, unauthorized entry by anyone, and everyone.

  What difference does it make if a particular town is mostly White skinned residents or not? So long as all the residents are authorized to be in our Country the pigmentation of their skin is irrelevant. Citizenship is what is desired for most residents in any Country, and authorized non-citizen residents is expected, in fact planned for and around by local government folks.

  Legal residents are the goal, hopefully good folks who obey the laws, and support the ideals of their neighbors as well, and who mind their own business, live their own lives, and support their own families, pay their bills, etc. etc.

  We need always to be working toward those goals in a serious way.

Some people are like the 'slinky'. Not really good for much,
but they bring a smile to your face as they fall down stairs.


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Reply #1018 on: February 15, 2019, 07:00:14 PM

I'm dropping out of this conversation, simply because I don't think that we should speak for the minorities (Jews, Blacks, Mexicans and a host of others).....They would be the ones that would tell you what they are suffering.


Good God, Liz, surely you don't mean that?!?

The whole point of this country is speaking out for minorities. In fact, that was one of the core principles of the U.S. Constitution and the primary intent of the Founding Fathers.

Most to the point, non-minorities have a moral obligation to speak out for minorities, especially when their rights are being trampled, to advocate for them, and to advocate for laws -- or Constitutional Amendments -- to legally protect them.

I'm not Black, Jewish, Hispanic, or a member of "a host of other" minority groups. Does that disqualify me from participating in this or any other conversation about their rights? Should I -- and everyone else who isn't a member of these groups -- similarly "drop out" of this and every other conversation about these issues?

Really?






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psiberzerker

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Reply #1019 on: February 15, 2019, 07:04:59 PM
 Reality is, we have a Southern Border, and it must be defended, and it must be enforced against unwanted, unauthorized entry by anyone, and everyone.

Citizenship is what is desired for most residents in any Country, and authorized non-citizen residents is expected, in fact planned for and around by local government folks.  Legal residents are the goal, hopefully good folks who obey the laws, and support the ideals of their neighbors as well, and who mind their own business, live their own lives, and support their own families, pay their bills, etc.

  We need always to be working toward those goals in a serious way.

Yes, but a wall works against these espoused goals.  Deportations, and holding familys' children Hostage works against LEGAL immigration, and provides an incentive for those who had their children Taken to try to get them back.  Making people Illegal, while allowing the wealthy to Buy immigrants from Europe (Ivanka, and Melania) is Racial Favoritism from White Supremacists.  

I know you can't see that, but that's what you're supporting.  Tearing families apart, and puting a wall up so they can't be re-united.  What are those parents supposed to do, obey the law, and give up their children who're imprisoned for the crime of being born here, or break the law, and try to get their children back?

Oh yeah, and criminals are still PEOPLE.  If you still haven't gotten that point.  Any law that makes having children, or being born here a crime if you're not white is a racist policy.  Putting a wall up is just making that worse.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 07:09:30 PM by psiberzerker »