KRISTEN'S BOARD
KB - a better class of pervert

Lois · **Reply #260 on:** October 19, 2017, 01:30:29 AM

Thank you for the post Athos. I hope Joan reads it. It explains why kneeling is a respectful alternative to just sitting on the bench.

Athos_131 · **Reply #261 on:** October 19, 2017, 02:26:43 AM

Cheerleaders apparently thought screaming ‘f–k n–gers’ was the height of wit

#Resist

MissBarbara · **Reply #262 on:** October 19, 2017, 03:26:20 PM

Quote from: joan1984 on October 18, 2017, 10:52:40 PM

Actually, Katiebee, the First Amendment dictates that the government shall not interfere with a citizen's rights, and in this case, does not apply, as the government has nothing to do with what the NFL and it's employees may do.

On the one hand, the First Amendment in no way "dictates that the government shall not interfere with a citizen's rights." It bars the federal Congress from passing legislation that violates a small group of specific and defined rights. And understanding this difference is vital.

On the other hand, taking your statement at face value, if "the government has nothing to do with what the NFL and it's [sic] employees may do," should I assume you join me in condemning the U.S. president -- the personification of "the government" -- for dictating what the NFL and its employees may do? You know, those "sons of bitches"?

Quote from: joan1984 on October 18, 2017, 10:52:40 PM

This is between the NFL, it's employees, it's rules, and it's fans/sponsors. The President, as a fan, has an opinion and voiced it, as have many citizens who care about the issue, and it is his right to express his opinion, as we all agree.

In past years, you routinely condemned Obama when he voiced his opinions on issues. Why is what was proscribed for Obama celebrated for Trump? Why did Obama not have a right to express his opinion, while his successor does?

I can very clearly imagine how, had Obama issued a profanity-laced condemnation of a private business and its employees, your cries of objection could be heard clear across the country.

Add to that, you're guilty of one of the biggest (and, unfortunately, most preponderant) logical fallacies of them all: Just because someone has a right to say something doesn't mean he's right in saying it. So yes, "we all agree" that Trump had the right to say what he did. But "we all" condemn the content (and appropriateness...and sanity...) of what he said. His right to say it, in this context, is completely irrelevant.

MintJulie · **Reply #263 on:** October 19, 2017, 03:36:07 PM

Quote from: Athos_131 on October 19, 2017, 02:26:43 AM

Cheerleaders apparently thought screaming ‘f–k n–gers’ was the height of wit

#Resist

I played the video before reading the article and something seemed off. It was only the last girl that seemed like her voice matched her lip movement. But then there is mention that the video might be playing backwards. Watch that last girl after she voices the phrase....she quickly closes her mouth and licks her lips. The natural movement would be licking your lips and then speaking. I do think it is being played backwards.
If not, such a shame.

joan1984 · **Reply #264 on:** October 19, 2017, 03:43:16 PM

I agree, that there are things for which "rights" may exist, that are wrong.
When Obama interfered with his opinion, without gathering facts, then stayed with that opinion, such as the 'Skip Gates' incident, and the Ferguson tradgedy in which our President took positions opposite of the lawful action of Police, I was upset, damn right I was upset.

That made no difference to how some felt here, nor was it expected to make a difference. The fact is he was wrong, which was later shown, as his own DOJ investigated ad nauseum, in those and in many other cases.

Does not mean President Trump is a racist. He is not a racist, never has been and I don't expect he will be. Calling him racist is wrong. Ignoring the calling of racist when it is clearly wrong, the slandering of our President that way, is also wrong.

Time will tell how the NFL actions, and inactions, are accepted by football fans who pay to view, pay to attend games, pay a lot, only to face leftists prior to each game, essentially spitting on America. Feeling it in their wallet may be the only solution, to get this tax subsidized group to do the right thing.

MissBarbara · **Reply #265 on:** October 19, 2017, 03:57:46 PM

Quote from: Northwest on October 18, 2017, 09:04:28 PM

Quote from: joan1984 on October 18, 2017, 08:14:07 PM

Standing during the National Anthem is the expected form of respect.

  The issue Colin Kappernick and other players wish to address with their public display may well be within what their employer expects of players. Such display of not standing during the National Anthem, if one is physically able, is not what NFL Fans expect of the teams, and league, and players.

  Fans will display their displeasure with their dollars, and game attendance it seems, from the look of the empty seats in many NFL stadiums in past weeks.

  The 2018 NFL Season will tall the tale, as most teams sell out their available seats for every game, to Season Ticket Holders and to advanced sale to fans or ticket brokers. The 2017 empty seats are less burdensome financially to Teams then are the lost sales at the stadiums, and the lost tax revenue on such sales to the various towns whose citizens support the NFL stadium in their midst.

  If season ticket sales go wanting for 2018, the NFL will have only itself to blame for how they handled this issue, for which there is a clear rule, and for which there is clear precedent, with a player fined a game check, threatened future game checks, who then decided to comply.

  The fiction that some ex-Army guy counseled Colin Kappernick to kneel as a sign of respect for the Military is just that. Believe that, and I have a bridge in Brooklyn, NYC to sell you, a really great deal.

  Did his ex-Army friend advise him to support Fidel Castro, and other dictators and urge him to wear Police Are Pigs socks as well?

  Seems to me a valid cause is receiving lots of publicity, and getting little help from NFL viewers and fans, due to the venue in which this protest occurs. The National Anthem has nothing to do with such a protest.

Unless and until you start backing up your endless assertions with evidence and sources, you're just a pair of lips flapping in the wind.

-----

Post edited to add the following:

Joan: "Such display of not standing during the National Anthem, if one is physically able, is not what NFL Fans expect of the teams, and league, and players."

You don't speak for the players, and you don't know their minds. Provide evidence of your claim, or retract it.

And, more to the point, you don't speak for "NFL fans." You're right: There are some fans who object to the players' protests, most of whom object in general to Black Americans struggling for equal rights.

Then again, your post appears in a thread that demonstrates that "Racism Is Alive and Well, Thanks to Trump and His Supporters," so those fans objections -- and yours -- are, sadly, to be expected.

P.S. Props to Northwest for his wonderful line, "Unless and until you start backing up your endless assertions with evidence and sources, you're just a pair of lips flapping in the wind."

Northwest · **Reply #266 on:** October 19, 2017, 04:36:38 PM

Quote from: joan1984 on October 19, 2017, 03:43:16 PM

I agree, that there are things for which "rights" may exist, that are wrong.
When Obama interfered with his opinion, without gathering facts, then stayed with that opinion, such as the 'Skip Gates' incident, and the Ferguson tradgedy in which our President took positions opposite of the lawful action of Police, I was upset, damn right I was upset.

  That made no difference to how some felt here, nor was it expected to make a difference. The fact is he was wrong, which was later shown, as his own DOJ investigated ad nauseum, in those and in many other cases.

  Does not mean President Trump is a racist. He is not a racist, never has been and I don't expect he will be. Calling him racist is wrong. Ignoring the calling of racist when it is clearly wrong, the slandering of our President that way, is also wrong.

  Time will tell how the NFL actions, and inactions, are accepted by football fans who pay to view, pay to attend games, pay a lot, only to face leftists prior to each game, essentially spitting on America. Feeling it in their wallet may be the only solution, to get this tax subsidized group to do the right thing.

MissBarbara, I thought your comments were well reasoned and well stated. Joan, however, simply did what she usually does -- grabbed bit and pieces out of the whole and applied them selectively, while employing double standards and ignoring your essential meaning. One set of rules for those on the left; an entirely different set of rules for those whom she supports.

The writing above is a mass of disorganized semi-coherent thought fragments which imply (though not state, for nothing is stated clearly) that Obama is always guilty of everything, while Trump is perpetually innocent.

And, as is frequently the case with Joan's writing, the important points are simply assertions, sans evidence or proof, where opinions are offered as fact, while Joan speaks authoritatively about the thoughts and feelings of others claiming knowledge of things about which she does not know, and could not know:

Quote

" That made no difference to how some felt here, nor was it expected to make a difference."

If they give points for stubbornness, then Joan will max out that category. But in all other respects, her writing is simply a display of lousy reasoning, paired with poor expression: Obama bad; Trump good. Ugh.

Northwest · **Reply #267 on:** October 19, 2017, 05:51:00 PM

Quote from: MissBarbara on October 19, 2017, 03:57:46 PM

And, more to the point, you don't speak for "NFL fans." You're right: There are some fans who object to the players' protests, most of whom object in general to Black Americans struggling for equal rights.

Then again, your post appears in a thread that demonstrates that "Racism Is Alive and Well, Thanks to Trump and His Supporters," so those fans objections -- and yours -- are, sadly, to be expected.

P.S. Props to Northwest for his wonderful line, "Unless and until you start backing up your endless assertions with evidence and sources, you're just a pair of lips flapping in the wind."

You snuck this in while I was composing my message, and I didn't see it until just now -- an hour or more after you posted it. My comments above, obviously, referred to your prior message. I'm sure that that's obvious from context, but in the interest of complete clarity...

(Interesting, my spell checker informs me that there is no such word as "snuck", but we are going to have to disagree on that point. I sneaked it in, and there's nothing they can do to stop me.)

MissBarbara · **Reply #268 on:** October 19, 2017, 07:22:52 PM

Quote from: joan1984 on October 19, 2017, 03:43:16 PM

I agree, that there are things for which "rights" may exist, that are wrong.
When Obama interfered with his opinion, without gathering facts, then stayed with that opinion, such as the 'Skip Gates' incident, and the Ferguson tradgedy in which our President took positions opposite of the lawful action of Police, I was upset, damn right I was upset.

That made no difference to how some felt here, nor was it expected to make a difference. The fact is he was wrong, which was later shown, as his own DOJ investigated ad nauseum, in those and in many other cases.

You're proving my point. Obama "interfered," while Trump "has an opinion and voiced it."

And in what universe does a sitting president calling employees of a private business to be fired not considered interference?

Quote from: joan1984 on October 19, 2017, 03:43:16 PM

Does not mean President Trump is a racist. He is not a racist, never has been and I don't expect he will be. Calling him racist is wrong. Ignoring the calling of racist when it is clearly wrong, the slandering of our President that way, is also wrong.

I didn't say that Trump was a racist. In fact, I don't think I've ever said that, neither here nor in real life.

Please respond to what I actually write, and not to what you think I think.

Quote from: joan1984 on October 19, 2017, 03:43:16 PM

Time will tell how the NFL actions, and inactions, are accepted by football fans who pay to view, pay to attend games, pay a lot, only to face leftists prior to each game, essentially spitting on America. Feeling it in their wallet may be the only solution, to get this tax subsidized group to do the right thing.

Those NFL fans who pay to view NFL games who are disgusted by "leftists" [read: black people and those who support them] protesting during the National Anthem have one aggressively simple way to avoid this: Don't turn on the game until the National Anthem has concluded. But that's too easy...

Northwest · **Reply #269 on:** October 19, 2017, 07:36:06 PM

Well I, for one, think Trump is clearly a racist. What standard of proof are we operating at here? Do we have to wait until he self identifies and admits it? Isn't a consistent and persistent pattern of treating people of color by entirely different rules de facto racism?

I think it is.

Which, obviously, is NOT a contradiction of your point, MissBarbara. Simply me putting my cards on the table.

joan1984 · **Reply #270 on:** October 19, 2017, 10:04:24 PM

NorthWest, go back and read the dialog in 1408 and Politics from the 2008 election campaign, and the 8 years of the Obama Administration, as to what differences anything made of comments here, of the people here.

Other than 180 degree turn by many, when it comes to The Prophet, versus our current President, opinions expressed here, calling out actions, resulted in absolutely no change at KB. The change occurs outside KB, in the many thousands of voters in U.S. Counties/Districts, that rejected Obama's form of governing, and rejected any chance we may see more of that after he is gone.

Northwest · **Reply #271 on:** October 19, 2017, 10:49:21 PM

If you're making a point which is salient to something I've said, it escapes me. Perhaps if you quoted the original comment?

Or maybe you aren't...in which case I still don't get it. Your post (above) seems to contain several partially expressed ideas, which don't combine to form a whole.

Would it help you to understand my confusion if I told you that I'm absolutely certain that Obama would have secured a third term, had it been possible for him to run again? Trump's victory was not a repudiation of Obama (who remains fantastically more popular than Trump has been at ANY stage of his presidency or candidacy) but a rejection of the "politics as usual" of the Republican party, and a similar rejection of a very disappointing Democratic candidate who fumbled her shot at the presidency.

Your understandings of recent events, and the causes for them, are not very accurate in my view. You come across as highly opinionated, and seriously misinformed. I don't point out the deficiencies in your writing, your sourcing and your reasoning, simply to pick on you. I point out those things because they are, in fact, reality as I encounter it. You have not shown yourself to be capable of building a persuasive or credible argument to support the positions you hold.

Trump is probably the least popular president in the history of the nation (but CERTAINLY the least popular president of the last hundred years) while Obama remains one of the best liked and most respected. I can back those statements up with research, with polling, and I can quantify the differences, and support the positions I just laid out. If you want to convince me of something, try learning to do the same.

Athos_131 · **Reply #272 on:** October 20, 2017, 12:03:39 AM

Quote from: joan1984 on October 19, 2017, 03:43:16 PM

Does not mean President Trump is a racist. He is not a racist, never has been and I don't expect he will be. Calling him racist is wrong. Ignoring the calling of racist when it is clearly wrong,

Quote from: joan1984 on October 19, 2017, 03:43:16 PM

the slandering of our President that way, is also wrong.

Oh, the hypocrisy.

#Resist

joan1984 · **Reply #273 on:** October 20, 2017, 12:16:36 AM

RACIST is a strong claim, a slanderous claim, usually not warranted.

Not everything with a racial component is racist. Crying 'wolf' as is so often done with this claim, leaves people, your opponents in this case, and fair minded people overall, less willing to believe your next claim.

MissBarbara · **Reply #274 on:** October 20, 2017, 12:21:57 AM

Quote from: Northwest on October 19, 2017, 07:36:06 PM

Which, obviously, is NOT a contradiction of your point, MissBarbara. Simply me putting my cards on the table.

I understand your point, and it's at least as valid as mine.

The main reason I've never said Trump is a racist is because the word "racist" has been rendered completely meaningless.

One point that seems inescapable to me is the fact that Trump's campaign slogan was "Make America Great Again." And one of his first acts as president was to ban people from a list of predominantly Muslim countries from entering the U.S. Thus, banning Muslims is the way to "Make America Great Again."

I'm not saying Trump is racist, but...

MissBarbara · **Reply #275 on:** October 20, 2017, 12:24:43 AM

Quote from: joan1984 on October 20, 2017, 12:16:36 AM

RACIST is a strong claim, a slanderous claim, usually not warranted.

In what ways is it "slanderous"?

From your usage here and above, it's clear you don't know what the word means.

Northwest · **Reply #276 on:** October 20, 2017, 12:39:33 AM

Quote from: MissBarbara on October 20, 2017, 12:21:57 AM

The main reason I've never said Trump is a racist is because the word "racist" has been rendered completely meaningless.

A tad overstated, but I take your point and I agree. It's like a word you repeat so many times that it loses any meaning.

But if you ask me to speak the truth as I see it, and if I think Trump is, at the core of his being, a racist, the answer is yes. That's simply what I believe.

Athos_131 · **Reply #277 on:** October 20, 2017, 12:43:53 AM

Quote from: joan1984 on October 20, 2017, 12:16:36 AM

RACIST is a strong claim, a slanderous claim, usually not warranted.

Not everything with a racial component is racist. Crying 'wolf' as is so often done with this claim, leaves people, your opponents in this case, and fair minded people overall, less willing to believe your next claim.

Do you have evidence that refutes the racist actions in those sources, racist?

#Resist

Athos_131 · **Reply #278 on:** October 20, 2017, 03:40:32 AM

Florida Parole Officer's Racist Rant at Latinx Workers Caught on Camera

#Resist

Athos_131 · **Reply #279 on:** October 20, 2017, 04:02:06 AM

George W. Bush’s unmistakable takedown of Trumpism — and Trump

Quote

Speaking at a George W. Bush Institute event in New York, Bush didn't use Trump's name, but his target became clearer as the speech progressed. Here's a sampling:

“Bigotry seems emboldened. Our politics seems more vulnerable to conspiracy theories and outright fabrication.”

“We’ve seen nationalism distorted into nativism.”

“We’ve seen our discourse degraded by casual cruelty. . . . Argument turns too easily into animosity.”

“It means that bigotry and white supremacy in any form is blasphemy against the American creed, and it means the very identity of our nation depends on passing along civic ideals.”

“Bullying and prejudice in our public life … provides permission for cruelty and bigotry.”

“The only way to pass along civic values is to live up to them.”

#Resist

Racism is alive and well, Thanks Trump and his supporters!