Racism is alive and well, Thanks Trump and his supporters!

[joan1984]

NFL players who seek out interviews and media to 'make a statement' place themselves directly in the position of disrespecting citizens and Fans of the team who demand the NFL stick to its published and agreed policy, regarding how a team presents itself during the pre-came ceremony, including standing, in a dignified behavior and manner, during the playing of the U.S. National Anthem.

Disrespect is the only rational explanation for not following the NFL rules for every team, as regarding attendance and behavior during this ceremony, if they are to be considered as a compliant NFL franchise, and player(s).

When hinging some extraneous protest to such a revered and important item as the National Anthem of the United States, while in the United States, such behavior, and further public comment taunting the paying fan base, will draw a suitable and pointed response, is expected, and is to be avoided by the NFL and it's players.

#Resist

[Athos_131]

NFL players who seek out interviews and media to 'make a statement' place themselves directly in the position of disrespecting citizens and Fans of the team who demand the NFL stick to its published and agreed policy, regarding how a team presents itself during the pre-came ceremony, including standing, in a dignified behavior and manner, during the playing of the U.S. National Anthem.

Disrespect is the only rational explanation for not following the NFL rules for every team, as regarding attendance and behavior during this ceremony, if they are to be considered as a compliant NFL franchise, and player(s).

When hinging some extraneous protest to such a revered and important item as the National Anthem of the United States, while in the United States, such behavior, and further public comment taunting the paying fan base, will draw a suitable and pointed response, is expected, and is to be avoided by the NFL and it's players.

#Resist

I'm curious as to your opinion about the few teams who did not come out for the anthem.

#Resist

[MissBarbara]

NFL players who seek out interviews and media to 'make a statement' place themselves directly in the position of disrespecting citizens and Fans of the team who demand the NFL stick to its published and agreed policy, regarding how a team presents itself during the pre-came ceremony, including standing, in a dignified behavior and manner, during the playing of the U.S. National Anthem.

Disrespect is the only rational explanation for not following the NFL rules for every team, as regarding attendance and behavior during this ceremony, if they are to be considered as a compliant NFL franchise, and player(s).

When hinging some extraneous protest to such a revered and important item as the National Anthem of the United States, while in the United States, such behavior, and further public comment taunting the paying fan base, will draw a suitable and pointed response, is expected, and is to be avoided by the NFL and it's players.

Here, and in other posts in this topic, Joan attacks Black people.

In another thread of hers I just read, she attacks Hispanic people.

If you're Asian, watch out, as Joan has you in her sights!

[Athos_131]

NFL players who seek out interviews and media to 'make a statement' place themselves directly in the position of disrespecting citizens and Fans of the team who demand the NFL stick to its published and agreed policy, regarding how a team presents itself during the pre-came ceremony, including standing, in a dignified behavior and manner, during the playing of the U.S. National Anthem.

Disrespect is the only rational explanation for not following the NFL rules for every team, as regarding attendance and behavior during this ceremony, if they are to be considered as a compliant NFL franchise, and player(s).

When hinging some extraneous protest to such a revered and important item as the National Anthem of the United States, while in the United States, such behavior, and further public comment taunting the paying fan base, will draw a suitable and pointed response, is expected, and is to be avoided by the NFL and it's players.

Here, and in other posts in this topic, Joan attacks Black people.

In another thread of hers I just read, she attacks Hispanic people.

If you're Asian, watch out, as Joan has you in her sights!

I'm sure she's attacked Muslim people as well.

#Resist

[joan1984]

  Of course I 'attack' no one, just point out that the people who are breaking the rules, disrespecting the paying audience and team fans, by disrespecting our Nation's customs and anthem are wrong. Whether they are one color or another color is not material to anything at all.

  These folks use the antics of a hasbeen player, who wore 'pig socks' as he suggested police are racist pigs, and directly spoke to his disrespect for the United States, it's flag and anthem, during the Obama Administration, btw, as they try to find something to bitch about, and try to tie this tired belligerant activity somehow to President Trump.

  The President, quoted as to exactly what he said, used a role play style story to relay what he may wish a responsible NFL owner to say, when confronted by players who break NFL rules and disrespect their sponsors, fans and audience, made clear his position. It is the majority opinion/position of the United States and is reflected in lack of attendance at NFL games following such rabid action.

  Again, that those taking offense happen to be of one or another ethnicity or melanin level in their skin makes no difference, the offense is disrespect, the issue is National, and the lack of ratings year over year over Democrat politicization of yet another "social justice issue", no matter how badly misplaced, delivers a similar result.

 

[Athos_131]

  These folks use the antics of a hasbeen player, who wore 'pig socks' as he suggested police are racist pigs, and directly spoke to his disrespect for the United States, it's flag and anthem, during the Obama Administration, btw, as they try to find something to bitch about, and try to tie this tired belligerant activity somehow to President Trump.

   

  Colin Kaepernick should be picked up as a backup QB, if not by the Baltimore Ravens, then by any one of a bunch of NFL teams, and I predict he will be, as the Season begins in September.

  Would not mind the Washington Redskins having him on the roster, as he has a good arm, is capable, and presumably healthy. His issue with being dropped as Starting QB was his inability to make the necessary "reads" in time to get the ball out, keep moving down the field, and not get sacked, broken plays.

 

Hmm...

#Resist

[joan1984]

Read your own post. Again, we all know Opinions are like Athos!

I see no conflict between my statement today, and my statement at the time Barbara noted the ex-QB from the left coast, some months ago.

  These folks use the antics of a hasbeen player, who wore 'pig socks' as he suggested police are racist pigs, and directly spoke to his disrespect for the United States, it's flag and anthem, during the Obama Administration, btw, as they try to find something to bitch about, and try to tie this tired belligerant activity somehow to President Trump.

   

  Colin Kaepernick should be picked up as a backup QB, if not by the Baltimore Ravens, then by any one of a bunch of NFL teams, and I predict he will be, as the Season begins in September.

  Would not mind the Washington Redskins having him on the roster, as he has a good arm, is capable, and presumably healthy. His issue with being dropped as Starting QB was his inability to make the necessary "reads" in time to get the ball out, keep moving down the field, and not get sacked, broken plays.

 

Hmm...

#Resist

[Athos_131]

Read your own post. Again, we all know Opinions are like Athos!

I see no conflict between my statement today, and my statement at the time Barbara noted the ex-QB from the left coast, some months ago.

  These folks use the antics of a hasbeen player, who wore 'pig socks' as he suggested police are racist pigs, and directly spoke to his disrespect for the United States, it's flag and anthem, during the Obama Administration, btw, as they try to find something to bitch about, and try to tie this tired belligerant activity somehow to President Trump.

   

  Colin Kaepernick should be picked up as a backup QB, if not by the Baltimore Ravens, then by any one of a bunch of NFL teams, and I predict he will be, as the Season begins in September.

  Would not mind the Washington Redskins having him on the roster, as he has a good arm, is capable, and presumably healthy. His issue with being dropped as Starting QB was his inability to make the necessary "reads" in time to get the ball out, keep moving down the field, and not get sacked, broken plays.

 

Hmm...

#Resist

Some months?  It's hasn't been 60 days.



#Resist

[joan1984]

umhmm... absent full context to include Barb's original posting, whatever.

I don't have the post sorting time to dedicate to such a response.

[Athos_131]

umhmm... absent full context to include Barb's original posting, whatever.

I don't have the post sorting time to dedicate to such a response.

"I'm too lazy to defend my trolling."

#Resist

[Athos_131]

joan1984, why did you respond to that post and not the question I posed to you?

I'm curious as to your opinion about the few teams who did not come out for the anthem.

[Athos_131]

I’m a white country singer. I still took a knee after I sang the national anthem at an NFL game.

I was on my way to Nissan Stadium in Nashville on Sunday morning when I got a phone call informing me that my performance of the national anthem before the Tennessee Titans game would be televised nationally later that day. President Trump had already spent the day before attacking the NFL players who’ve been kneeling during the anthem to protest police brutality against African Americans, so of course news outlets and all of America would be watching.

I started to get nervous, because I knew what I had to do.

I am a recording artist living in Nashville. I come from a country music background, but I grew up in and around New Orleans, where all kinds of music and cultures mix. When I was 10, we moved to a tiny Louisiana town called Ponchatoula. I remember hearing the “n-word” for the first time at school. It shocked and saddened me. It still does. I saw racism all around me growing up: I remember getting a homecoming ballot in high school and seeing the names divided on the page. One section read “black,” the other “white.” I remember thinking it couldn’t be real. That was in 2004.

Racism is still a huge stain on the heart of this country, and it is still very much alive. I see it often when I am touring with members of my band, who are primarily black men. We recently played a venue where I was told that the promoter did not want to pay me because my “drummer was threatening.” This was at a country club in the Deep South. I was with my drummer, who is like a brother to me, the entire day, and I never saw any type of aggression from him. The only threat she saw was the color of his skin.

So on Sunday, even though I had been looking forward to singing the national anthem at this game for about six months, I knew I had to find a way to stand in solidarity with my brothers, sisters, fans and friends who live with the effects of such toxic hatred all the time and are experiencing an even higher level of anxiety and fear because of the polarizing rhetoric Trump spews out.

I walked out to the middle of the field, sang the song and then peacefully locked arms with my boyfriend and took a knee. I took a knee for those who are mistreated, beaten down and disregarded in this country. I took a knee because every movement needs allies, and I knew that someone who looks like me and comes from my background needed to do it. When you’re white, it’s easy to disregard racism and not see your own privilege. Instead, I wanted to use my privilege — and my platform — to shed a light on systemic racism and social injustice.

A lot of people are calling my peaceful protest “un-American,” but that could not be farther from the truth. I love this country and the men and women who serve and die to protect our freedoms. Part of that freedom is being able to speak out when things are not right. I chose to stand during the anthem because I didn’t want my message to get misconstrued. I was not protesting the military or police or flag. I was protesting in solidarity with those whom the flag also represents: my fellow humans of color.

My decision may hurt my career, but it was the only choice for me. This cause is more important than my record sales.

I walked off the field to mixed reactions. Some people got my attention and shouted “thank you.” A lot of them booed. The booing didn’t bother me so much. What bothers me more is the silence: the silence of millions of white people every day, when they watch a video of a black woman’s son who is murdered simply for reaching for his driver’s license. We have to do better. We have to speak, and we have to be allies.

In the past few days, I have received death threats and had cancer wished upon me by the same people who claim to be great patriots. I’ve had people say that they should have executed me on the field. People are threatening my life because the idea that someone who looks like me would act against racism upsets them so much.

I can’t think of anything more un-American than threatening someone for an act of free speech. I am not afraid of these people, because I know that I am living on my mother’s prayers and God will protect me. It just hurts my heart to stand in the face of real unadulterated hate. But it’s the same hate that so many other people in this country face simply because of the color of their skin.

The only way we can move forward as a nation is if we bring it all back to love. We have to live it and demonstrate it every day in our own lives — and we have to point out injustices every time we see them. I am praying for our country. I know that there has to be more love out there, and I pray that we find it and fast.

#Resist

[MissBarbara]

  Of course I 'attack' no one, just point out that the people who are breaking the rules, disrespecting the paying audience and team fans, by disrespecting our Nation's customs and anthem are wrong. Whether they are one color or another color is not material to anything at all.

  These folks use the antics of a has been player, who wore 'pig socks' as he suggested police are racist pigs, and directly spoke to his disrespect for the United States, it's flag and anthem, during the Obama Administration, btw, as they try to find something to bitch about, and try to tie this tired belligerant activity somehow to President Trump.

  The President, quoted as to exactly what he said, used a role play style story to relay what he may wish a responsible NFL owner to say, when confronted by players who break NFL rules and disrespect their sponsors, fans and audience, made clear his position. It is the majority opinion/position of the United States and is reflected in lack of attendance at NFL games following such rabid action.

  Again, that those taking offense happen to be of one or another ethnicity or melanin level in their skin makes no difference, the offense is disrespect, the issue is National, and the lack of ratings year over year over Democrat politicization of yet another "social justice issue", no matter how badly misplaced, delivers a similar result.

I'll admit that, over and above watching an occasional Bears game, I'm not exactly knowledgeable about the NFL. But, fascinated by this controversy, I've read widely on this topic.

NFL ratings are indeed down over previous years. However there's no evidence, other than baseless assertions, that this controversy has anything to do with the decline in ratings. That decline is attributed chiefly to the fact that broadcast and basic cable ratings are down across the board. Thus, the decline in ratings for NFL games parallels the decline in ratings for all other sports, sitcoms, dramas, reality shows, etc. It has nothing to do with a reaction against NFL players protesting racism, and everything to do with people seeking alternative means for consuming video content.

I also suspect that the continuing revelations of the devastating physical effects of head trauma and CTE  are also affecting NFL TV viewership. But I haven't any evidence to support that, so it's just my surmise.

I'd love to know how NFL players "taking a knee" before the game are "disrespecting the paying audience and team fans," or how they "disrespect their [the NFL's] sponsors, fans and audience." Disrespecting the sponsors? I got a good laugh out of that one!

Meanwhile, your assertion that the protestors and their supporters "try to tie this tired belligerant activity somehow to President Trump" is the epitome of hypocrisy (or, perhaps, self-delusion). The protests couldn't have been milder or more unoffensive, and they were peaceful and, surprisingly, non-controversial. Yet your president decided to wade into the situation with an expletive-laced tirade (calling citizens exercising their First Amendment rights "sons of bitches" is very presidential!), thereby both ratcheting up the controversy and, and in a delightfully ironic way, giving credence to the protestors and their message.

Your contention that Trump "used a role play style story to relay what he may wish a responsible NFL owner to say" is, in a word, completely nuts. Please read what Trump actually said at the rally, and what he actually tweeted.

Your assertions the that you "are attacking no one," that "whether they are one color or another color is not material to anything at all, and that "those taking offense happen to be of one or another ethnicity or melanin level in their skin makes no difference" are blatantly hypocritical. Racism isn't always overt and obvious. The is exactly the type of racial code speak that Lois likes to point out.

[Lois]

I got a laugh out of Joan's assertion that NFL players taking the knee were breaking the rules.  What rules?  Who wrote them?  Are these rules the same as laws?

 

I would also point out that taking the knee was taken from how US military veterans respect their fallen comrades.  If it was meant to be disrespectful, wouldn't mooning the flag be a better message?

Taking a knee is similar to flying the flag at half mast, and yet that is not considered disrespectful.  It's a sign of mourning or distress.

[Athos_131]

I got a laugh out of Joan's assertion that NFL players taking the knee were breaking the rules.  What rules?  Who wrote them?  Are these rules the same as laws?

Does the NFL Require Players to Stand for the National Anthem?

Here's what the game operations manual says regarding the national anthem, according to an NFL spokesperson:
The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.

During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.


It's important to note the use of the word "may" here. The NFL is not considering punishing fines on players or teams who choose to kneel or stay in the locker room during the national anthem, the spokesperson says.

#Resist

[MissBarbara]

I got a laugh out of Joan's assertion that NFL players taking the knee were breaking the rules.  What rules?  Who wrote them?  Are these rules the same as laws?

Does the NFL Require Players to Stand for the National Anthem?

Here's what the game operations manual says regarding the national anthem, according to an NFL spokesperson:

The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.

During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.


It's important to note the use of the word "may" here. The NFL is not considering punishing fines on players or teams who choose to kneel or stay in the locker room during the national anthem, the spokesperson says.

#Resist

Thanks for posting this, I've been wondering that myself.

To my mind, the whole point of protesting is doing something you're "not supposed to do." Even though the message has now been completely lost, Kaepernick's initial protest, albeit extremely mild, was effective for precisely that reason, he was doing something he was "not supposed to do."

[MissBarbara]

Though a slight hijack, here's something I've been wondering since last Fall, and have yet to find a satisfying answer:

How good an NFL quarterback is Colin Kaepernick? Is he of a caliber that he should be starting for an NFL team right now, or at least serving as a back-up? I've tried googling to find more information about this specific topic, but the answers vary widely, from he's better than half the current starting quarterbacks, to he's a back-up every NFL team should want on its roster, to he's a washed-up has-been.

The answer to this question, to my mind, cuts right to the heart of this matter, i.e. is he being deliberately blackballed by NFL owners for his actions, or is he simply not good enough to play on an NFL team, and his lack of a current contract is simply a reflection of the latter.

Any insight here from people with knowledge of the NFL would be greatly appreciated!

[Athos_131]

The NFL lists about 80+ players as quarterbacks.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/players/_/position/qb

In my opinion, given his talent and history, conservatively he's better than 1/5th to 1/4 of those listed.

The product in the NFL is pretty bad right now, lack of practice and time to recover from injury is a huge factor, many, many among other things too numerous to mention.

Football is not my bailiwick, but I certainly understand lack of preparation and lack of rest can have quite a negative effect on an athlete's and team's performance.

#Resist

[Athos_131]

#Resist

[joan1984]

Kapernick started acting out when he stopped being a starter. He stopped being a starter due to 'common sense', as he was a loser, too many games, too many stray balls, too many happy feet quick throws to some imaginary player, some of which turned into interceptions.

His attitude likely did not shift, just become a more visible part of his persona, and the fans on his team hated him, plus if he ever was to go in and play, the expectation by all who saw him play in their history was marginal, did not win.

My answer months or weeks ago, whatever, would check with the resident archvist, grrr, is that he has a big arm, can throw long passes, and for a while did so with accuracy. He was playing behind a poor Offensive line, so was not able to handle the pressure to stay put until a receiver got open, and 'happy feet' would get rid of the ball, ineffecively... not tossing where the opposing team could not get it.

Attitude is most of what people pay Quarterbacks big bucks about.. Aptitude is a necessity for every level of every position on every NFL team, if you dont have the aptitude, you dont get onto the roster.. that simple... but Attitude is what people pay for with a leader, and pay big... as much to keep him away from their competitors, as for his performance for the home team.

Kappernick lost the battle to whoever replaced him at the time, who found a way to overcome that lousy protection the team offered, and his attitude took a dive. He was never a Hall Of Fame contender, no on his best day. He was, and might be, a capable NFL Quarterback, that is to say, he understands the job, and once did it with some competence.

When there are enough injuries in the NFL in this season, he will be considered to be a backup who can capably end a losing game without further problems, and maybe surprise some people and do well, at least part of the time and at least when the Team that hires him, should it happen, can give him the O Line he needs to take the time and read the plays as they develop, to connect to his own receivers.

I saw the post about 80 QBs listed for this season.  Figure however many teams times two capable QBs each on the field every game. Add to that the number of QB's and ever backup QB's who hold a slot at any given moment on the club's Practice Squad.  Kapernick certainly was good enough to be better than the Practice Squad guys, in recent times, as far as field leadership, communication with his players, communication with the bench... Aptitude.

No one wants a problem player, someone who distracts, someone who holds press conferences, someone the Press wants to interview, especially if that same player is not a STARTER for the team. Bad enough the distractions of the Starting players, who wants to buy trouble, negative attention, distraction.

That said, with enough injuries the NFL team rosters and coaches will look at everyone capable of ending a game without embarassment to the team... they have already called up players who were working in their Mom/Pops Used Clothing stores, and who were mechanics in some garage, and Colin Kapernick is on someones list, maybe a few someone's list, when the situation DEMANDS having the off field and on field distractions he promises to bring with him... and all that was before the political activity this year.

So the answer is " Yes, and.....", and he may get his turn again. Will see.

Wearing the Pig Socks to make his point about police, another violation of the NFL's own rules, did not, has not helped his case.  He had a contract, and walked away from it, choosing to roll the dice as a free agent... and it is what it is...

How many Million Dollars and Cap Space juggling do you want your favorite team to spend on a known quantity like Kapernick?  Did anyone offer him a job in a TV booth, or on sidelines interviews? Did anyone offer him StartingQB money... of course not, he is only qualifed to start upon near death of the current starter, and their backup QB's on the bench... all has to do with injury later this year, whether he can qualify for such a position.

Though a slight hijack, here's something I've been wondering since last Fall, and have yet to find a satisfying answer:

How good an NFL quarterback is Colin Kaepernick? Is he of a caliber that he should be starting for an NFL team right now, or at least serving as a back-up? I've tried googling to find more information about this specific topic, but the answers vary widely, from he's better than half the current starting quarterbacks, to he's a back-up every NFL team should want on its roster, to he's a washed-up has-been.

The answer to this question, to my mind, cuts right to the heart of this matter, i.e. is he being deliberately blackballed by NFL owners for his actions, or is he simply not good enough to play on an NFL team, and his lack of a current contract is simply a reflection of the latter.

Any insight here from people with knowledge of the NFL would be greatly appreciated!