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Offline watcher1

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Reply #100 on: October 16, 2009, 01:59:05 PM
Watcher is among those who want to penalize someone with progressive taxation for achieving in their life.  I've read similar numbers from the IRS web site several months back.  It's on that site but far from easy to find.  I recall something like 35% paying no taxes at all after refundable credits are applied.

Not so. Every person should pay their fair share of taxes. What may be deemed fair to a person making a six figure salary could be seen as unfair for a person just making ends meet. The tax code should be simplified, but then that would throw many lawyers out of work and force the wealthy, who legitimately use the codes to their advantage, to actually pay their fair share.  Trickle down economics has not worked for the majority of Americans.

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Reply #101 on: October 16, 2009, 07:32:32 PM
Watcher is among those who want to penalize someone with progressive taxation for achieving in their life.  I've read similar numbers from the IRS web site several months back.  It's on that site but far from easy to find.  I recall something like 35% paying no taxes at all after refundable credits are applied.

Money = power

With great power comes great responsibility.  These responsibilities include paying their fair share of taxes.  A fair share for a rich person is more than a fair share for someone that is barely making ends meet.




Melissa

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Reply #102 on: October 17, 2009, 11:09:10 AM
So, here's your version of "fair share":

10% on income between $0 and $8,350
15% on the income between $8,350 and $33,950; plus $835
25% on the income between $33,950 and $82,250; plus $4,675
28% on the income between $82,250 and $171,550; plus $16,750
33% on the income between $171,550 and $372,950; plus $41,754
35% on the income over $372,950; plus $108,216

If it's fair, why must one who has worked harder to achieve more be forced to pay a higher percentage of their income?

http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm



Offline watcher1

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Reply #103 on: October 17, 2009, 02:07:16 PM
And who set those figures?  Well paid bureaucrats, advised by well paid lawyers and enacted with the blessing of well paid senators and congressmen.  One has to wonder why these well paid individuals would tax themselves the heaviest? Is it because maybe it was the right thing to do?

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Offline Dusty1961

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Reply #104 on: October 17, 2009, 03:16:26 PM
More likely it's just seen as a revenue source. And these well paid congressmen and senators don't put huge taxes on themselves - they strategically place the higher tax brackets just above their wage levels. Funny thing, that...

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Offline Lois

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Reply #105 on: October 18, 2009, 01:42:35 PM
So, here's your version of "fair share":

10% on income between $0 and $8,350
15% on the income between $8,350 and $33,950; plus $835
25% on the income between $33,950 and $82,250; plus $4,675
28% on the income between $82,250 and $171,550; plus $16,750
33% on the income between $171,550 and $372,950; plus $41,754
35% on the income over $372,950; plus $108,216

If it's fair, why must one who has worked harder to achieve more be forced to pay a higher percentage of their income?

http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm

I don't know if these are the official rates or not, but I'd bet you that almost no one in the upper brackets pays all that much.  That is because these folks also get tons of deductions that bring their actual tax contributions way down.



Offline Dusty1961

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Reply #106 on: October 18, 2009, 05:36:51 PM
Those rates are pretty much spot on, with one caveat - they're the actual withholding amounts (meaning, those are the amounts withheld from the person's paycheck based on their projected income for that year.) At the end of the year, when the person files his or her taxes, the actual amount of tax is the figured based on their actual income, and they're either issued a refund in the amount of their overpayment to the gov't, or they must pay the difference between the amount of tax they owe and the amount already withheld.

The rates as depicted above are what’s known as a “progressive tax scale,” meaning that the more you earn, the higher percentage of your earnings you’ll pay in taxes.

I know the idea of cutting tax rates to spur economic growth is branded as “Trickle Down Economics,” or “Supply Side Economics,” and sometimes even “Reaganomics,” but it actually isn’t a Republican idea at all. Those who don’t follow history too closely will be surprised to learn that the idea was first made popular by JFK in 1962. When JFK took office, the top marginal tax rate was 76% - meaning that the top income bracket paid 76% of that income in taxes. We were also in the midst of a recession, inherited from the Eisenhower years of tax and spend. JFK dropped those rates to 58% and there was a major spike in revenue collected by the gov’t – in fact, it almost doubled. Again, people had more money in their hands, and they spent and invested it, boosting the economy.

When Reagan took office, the top marginal rate had crept back up to 61%. By the time he left office, he had incrementally slashed it to 28%. The reduction of tax rates on every income level, not just the top marginal rate, plus the elimination of several tax loopholes, almost tripled revenue collected by the gov’t, and spurred on the largest peacetime economic growth in US history.

There aren’t all that many deductions and loopholes for anyone to use – rich or poor. As outlined before, the top tax brackets not only pay their share, they pay the majority of the taxes.

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Offline watcher1

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Reply #107 on: October 18, 2009, 05:54:58 PM
Good post, Dusty.  Forgot about those high tax rates back in the early 1960s and then again when Reagan took office.  So, looking at these current rates, the wealthy should be lucky they are making their money today rather then in the early 1960s or 1980s, even though the value of the dollar has decreased substantially from those years. But I digress.

Great avatar. Nothing like real and natural. ;D

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Reply #108 on: October 19, 2009, 08:22:36 AM
Keep in mind, those rates are for those still bringing in earned income with most coming from employment first and dividends second.  The truly wealthy who need not work will draw dividends and capital gains.  That's the source of Warren Buffet's ridiculous statement about his secretary being taxed a higher overall percentage than he.  There is no loophole for capital gains.

Here's a couple pieces on the millionaires in Congress.  The second has no source for information but they look pretty close from articles I've read in the past.

http://grantlawrence.blogspot.com/2009/09/millionaires-of-congress.html

http://blog.progressivedem.com/2008/10/28/congress-a-millionaires-club-made-wealthier-by-paluson--perps.aspx

You'll notice the most wealthy in Congress are those who have been around the longest or close to it.  They keep going back again and again.

If the FairTax were adopted, taxes would be truly fair across the board for every citizen and even better for those with low or no income.  Here is a link to Neal Boortz's talk on the FairTax with a very good explanation.  

http://stream.streamaudio.com/wsb_am/081309_fairtax_101.wma




Offline NonDairy

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Reply #109 on: October 29, 2009, 07:11:08 AM
So, here's your version of "fair share":

10% on income between $0 and $8,350
15% on the income between $8,350 and $33,950; plus $835
25% on the income between $33,950 and $82,250; plus $4,675
28% on the income between $82,250 and $171,550; plus $16,750
33% on the income between $171,550 and $372,950; plus $41,754
35% on the income over $372,950; plus $108,216

If it's fair, why must one who has worked harder to achieve more be forced to pay a higher percentage of their income?

http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm

While I might be convinced that there is, in fact, a more fair tax plan, I find it a gigantic leap of logic to assume that those with the highest incomes were those that "worked harder."

I hope one day you get cornered by a group of people who have had to work two jobs in order to put food on the table for their families and still made, say, $30,000 a year to support a family of five and you have to explain to them how it is that you worked harder than they did.

I've said it before. It astonishes me how horrible a person you are.

"I'd rather let a thousand guilty men go free than chase after them." - C.W.


Offline Dusty1961

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Reply #110 on: October 29, 2009, 06:01:16 PM
So, here's your version of "fair share":

10% on income between $0 and $8,350
15% on the income between $8,350 and $33,950; plus $835
25% on the income between $33,950 and $82,250; plus $4,675
28% on the income between $82,250 and $171,550; plus $16,750
33% on the income between $171,550 and $372,950; plus $41,754
35% on the income over $372,950; plus $108,216

If it's fair, why must one who has worked harder to achieve more be forced to pay a higher percentage of their income?

http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm

While I might be convinced that there is, in fact, a more fair tax plan, I find it a gigantic leap of logic to assume that those with the highest incomes were those that "worked harder."

I hope one day you get cornered by a group of people who have had to work two jobs in order to put food on the table for their families and still made, say, $30,000 a year to support a family of five and you have to explain to them how it is that you worked harder than they did.

I've said it before. It astonishes me how horrible a person you are.

I think you may have inadvertently mistaken what Melissa was saying in the post you quoted. She actually said, “If it's fair, why must one who has worked harder to achieve more be forced to pay a higher percentage of their income?”

It’s not "a gigantic leap of logic to assume" that those with the highest incomes have indeed worked harder to achieve more. More often than not, those with the highest incomes own their own businesses. In their 1999 book The Millionaire Next Door, Drs Thomas Stanley and William Danko interviewed 1000 people with a net worth of over a million US dollars, and discovered that 86% of them owned their own business, had an average annual income of $122,000 US, and became millionaires by living well below their means – not by spending it on trendy homes, expensive vacations, and flashy cars.

While it might be fair to say that someone who owns a construction company doesn’t physically do harder manual labor than one of his employees who is digging a trench, it is equally fair to say that the owner of said company has indeed worked harder to become the owner of a construction company, rather than just an employee of another company. It’s not a question of “working harder;” it’s a question of “working harder to achieve more.” That can begin in high school – deciding which career path you want to take, and working toward that goal.

Basing your college education on that goal, and working toward the degrees needed to begin that career are also hard work. Nobody becomes a lawyer, an archaeologist, or a medical doctor overnight. In the case of a doctor, you don’t just wake up one morning and decide to open a private practice. It takes years of education and hard work to even get that diploma to hang on the wall, then there are years of internship and practice in a hospital or medical group. It’s only after a minimum of about 12 years or more of hard work and further education can a doctor even think about opening his or her own office. That doctor had indeed worked harder to achieve more than, say, his receptionist. That’s not to disparage his receptionist – she does indeed work hard at her job – the doctor has simply worked harder to achieve more than the receptionist has. Let's also not forget that for all intents and purposes, a doctor is basically a business owner.

As a former business owner, I can personally (albeit anecdotally) tell you that owners do indeed work harder than their employees do, more often than not. To an owner, a 100+ hour workweek is common, and most often the rule rather than the exception. A weekend off is a rare thing – the number of two-day weekends per year can be counted on one hand. And please don’t think I’m being flip about this whole thing – I’m not. I’m merely trying to explain that anyone who isn’t willing to devote 100+ hours a week to their business will most likely never make that business a real success. It takes 100% dedication to that business – something the overwhelming majority of America simply doesn’t have the desire to do.

I submit to you that “working harder” and “working harder to achieve more” are two different things – they’re two completely different ideas. I think that’s what Melissa meant in her post – although I could be wrong. Now, before you think otherwise, let me tell you that I don’t know Melissa – or you, for that matter. I’m not here to defend her or anyone else. I will, however, defend an idea when I think it’s a good one – I will also defend that which I think is right. I know all about the recent blow-up, and that’s a separate issue. I also happen to think that Melissa’s post, which you quoted, when taken in context, is correct – yes, that means that I agree with her.

As far as explaining how you worked harder than they did to someone supporting a family of 5 on $30,000 a year is concerned; no problem – I’ve done it numerous times. In the vast majority of those cases it was when I was talking to an employee that was having problems at work – being late, missing work, poor performance, and such. It was always presented in such a way as to try to explain to that employee that he or she would never be successful at anything by half-stepping, or just plodding along through life. Success takes drive, desire, discipline, and dedication – not a half-assed attitude, or a “you owe me” outlook on life. It was presented in such a way as to let that employee know that I genuinely did give a damn, and that I was really trying to help said employee – not just going off on someone for the sake of venting my own frustrations. Overall, however, my primary responsibility had to be to the business, and if I could turn the employee’s attitude around, everybody benefited. If not, then maybe we had to part ways.

For the record, I’m not what anyone could consider rich. I sold my business about 24 years ago (probably the biggest mistake I’ve ever made in my life) and now work for an hourly wage – I make about $30,000 a year. I’m not bitter about it either – I am the one responsible for it – nobody else. I no longer have the drive or desire to run my own business, although I do have the discipline, and know that if I wanted to go that route, I would have the dedication. I just don’t want to do 100+ hours a week anymore.

Having said all of the above, if thinking that someone who has worked as hard as the average business owner has to make a business successful should be able to keep more of the money he or she earned makes me a “horrible person” as well, then so be it. I can live with that. I don’t believe in punishing achievement. I think that every person walking the face of the earth is entitled to every penny he or she earns – and the more they earn the better. I also believe it is inherently wrong for any government to confiscate any percentage of that penny for the sole purpose of redistributing that percentage to someone who hasn’t earned as much. If that makes me a “horrible person” too, then that’s a badge I’ll gladly wear.

I'm the one your mother warned you about...


Melissa

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Reply #111 on: October 29, 2009, 07:00:36 PM
Dusty stated it very well and thanks to Dusty for the effort he put into his explanation.  Perhaps another way to put it is there are those who worked not only harder others but smarter in order to achieve more.

You have some who say someone "just got lucky."   I define luck as "opportunity met with preparation."  Those who have achieved prepared for that opportunity that came along in which they became successful.



Offline ebilbob

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Reply #112 on: October 29, 2009, 07:09:00 PM
Dusty stated it very well and thanks to Dusty for the effort he put into his explanation.  Perhaps another way to put it is there are those who worked not only harder others but smarter in order to achieve more.

You have some who say someone "just got lucky."   I define luck as "opportunity met with preparation."  Those who have achieved prepared for that opportunity that came along in which they became successful.

I agree completely. When the opportunity to be born into privilege came up, those gametes worked their asses off to make sure they actually left the womb 9 months after conception.

And after their first few businesses failed, they begged long and hard for daddy and daddy's friends to put up more front money to try again.

And when they drove financial institutions into the ground with mismanagement and ineptitude, collapsing the entire global market under the weight of incompetence, they battled the American Congress with all of their might to keep the multi-million dollar bonuses and severance packages paid to them out of American tax dollars.




Offline Dusty1961

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Reply #113 on: October 29, 2009, 07:34:12 PM
I agree completely. When the opportunity to be born into privilege came up, those gametes worked their asses off to make sure they actually left the womb 9 months after conception.

You mean like the Duponts, Rockefellers, and Kennedys? Oh wait...

And after their first few businesses failed, they begged long and hard for daddy and daddy's friends to put up more front money to try again.

I'm struggling to figure out what this has to do with anything. I really don't know what this means. Begging money from mom & dad is restricted to the rich? Well, hell - I need to let my kids know that when they ask to borrow money again...

And when they drove financial institutions into the ground with mismanagement and ineptitude, collapsing the entire global market under the weight of incompetence, they battled the American Congress with all of their might to keep the multi-million dollar bonuses and severance packages paid to them out of American tax dollars.

Yep - thank you congressional Democrats for making sure they didn't get a dime of taxpayer funds. Oh wait...

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Offline NonDairy

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Reply #114 on: October 29, 2009, 08:39:12 PM
Dusty stated it very well and thanks to Dusty for the effort he put into his explanation.  Perhaps another way to put it is there are those who worked not only harder others but smarter in order to achieve more.

You have some who say someone "just got lucky."   I define luck as "opportunity met with preparation."  Those who have achieved prepared for that opportunity that came along in which they became successful.

I can define "honesty" as "blue mixed with red," but that doesn't change the actual meaning of the word.

I wasn't suggesting that people who work hard and make money should have to pay more than those that didn't. I was suggesting that you seem to feel entitled to paying as little tax as possible because you "worked harder" than those with less money.

And I was suggesting that two great things about this country are that a) someone can come over here with nothing, work two jobs for minimum wage and give their children improved opportunities - and it doesn't ever, ever, mean you worked harder than they did; and b) those who have and care tend to help those who don't have yet.

I'm not certain you understand either of those concepts.

"I'd rather let a thousand guilty men go free than chase after them." - C.W.


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Reply #115 on: October 30, 2009, 12:31:58 AM

I have no problem with paying taxes.  I do have a problem with paying at a greater rate than one of my employees because I simply earn more.  This is why I favor the FairTax or at  least a flat tax.

But, the Democrat in Congress would never go for even a flat tax because that takes away their effect at playing the class envy game.



Offline NonDairy

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Reply #116 on: October 30, 2009, 12:31:37 PM

I have no problem with paying taxes.  I do have a problem with paying at a greater rate than one of my employees because I simply earn more.  This is why I favor the FairTax or at  least a flat tax.

But, the Democrat in Congress would never go for even a flat tax because that takes away their effect at playing the class envy game.
Also, while Dusty's post seems to contradict this (and I'm not arguing with the numbers), mathematically it makes sense that the gov't could collect more tax money with a progressive scale.

To keep the numbers simple, if I'm making $25,000 a year and you're making $100,000 and we're both being taxed at %20, that's $25,000 for the government. If I'm being taxed at %20 and you're being taxed at %25, that's $30,000 for the government. And the argument is that you still wind up with $75,000 to my $20,000.

This isn't even including the fact that your 401(k) is growing faster than mine (if I even have one), you can afford an accountant to find you more deductions than my free TurboTax could find me, etc.

As I said, I could be convinced that a flat tax is the most fair way to go, but I haven't seen much evidence of that.

"I'd rather let a thousand guilty men go free than chase after them." - C.W.


Offline ebilbob

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Reply #117 on: October 30, 2009, 01:28:13 PM
I agree completely. When the opportunity to be born into privilege came up, those gametes worked their asses off to make sure they actually left the womb 9 months after conception.

You mean like the Duponts, Rockefellers, and Kennedys? Oh wait...

And after their first few businesses failed, they begged long and hard for daddy and daddy's friends to put up more front money to try again.

I'm struggling to figure out what this has to do with anything. I really don't know what this means. Begging money from mom & dad is restricted to the rich? Well, hell - I need to let my kids know that when they ask to borrow money again...

And when they drove financial institutions into the ground with mismanagement and ineptitude, collapsing the entire global market under the weight of incompetence, they battled the American Congress with all of their might to keep the multi-million dollar bonuses and severance packages paid to them out of American tax dollars.

Yep - thank you congressional Democrats for making sure they didn't get a dime of taxpayer funds. Oh wait...
1. Yes. Just like them. Btw, why do you know those names? Could it be because it's so rare for families of privilege to actually work for the benefit of people who don't have as much as they do that they become instantly famous as targets of the rest of the moneyed and powerful?
2. I was specifically referring to the good ole' boy network that propped up a drunken cocaine addict through every failed business he ran and finally decided that he was too stupid to succeed in business so they made him governor of Texas. After that it was only a short step and a couple of stolen elections to make him a 2 term president. If being handed a presidency after demonstrating conclusively that your only qualification is that you are stupid enough to be easily manipulated and stubborn enough to do the wrong thing no matter how many people tell you to reconsider isn't a perfect example of privilege, there probably isn't one. I mean even Paris Hilton had to suck cock on a video to claim her place in the sun. Bush only had to do it in the offices of all his daddy's buddies.
3. What does the mismanaged financial recovery plan have to do with how we got there? If someone slices open my femoral artery, I don't think anyone is going to blame the guy who doesn't know how to apply a tourniquet if I bleed to death (well, some people would, but they're fucking idiots). They'd blame the guy who caused the actual damage. But I guess if you can't argue the point, you just try to change the topic. Take your strategy from the RNC playbook much?



Offline Dusty1961

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Reply #118 on: October 30, 2009, 08:48:51 PM

I have no problem with paying taxes.  I do have a problem with paying at a greater rate than one of my employees because I simply earn more.  This is why I favor the FairTax or at  least a flat tax.

But, the Democrat in Congress would never go for even a flat tax because that takes away their effect at playing the class envy game.
Also, while Dusty's post seems to contradict this (and I'm not arguing with the numbers), mathematically it makes sense that the gov't could collect more tax money with a progressive scale.

To keep the numbers simple, if I'm making $25,000 a year and you're making $100,000 and we're both being taxed at %20, that's $25,000 for the government. If I'm being taxed at %20 and you're being taxed at %25, that's $30,000 for the government. And the argument is that you still wind up with $75,000 to my $20,000.

This isn't even including the fact that your 401(k) is growing faster than mine (if I even have one), you can afford an accountant to find you more deductions than my free TurboTax could find me, etc.

As I said, I could be convinced that a flat tax is the most fair way to go, but I haven't seen much evidence of that.

You’re absolutely right, NonDairy, when you say that “mathematically it makes sense that the gov't could collect more tax money with a progressive scale.” When viewed statically, it makes perfect sense that the higher the rate you charge, the more money you’ll collect. The problem is that there’s nothing static about the economy – and taxation and the economy are inseparably linked. I’ll illustrate my point.

Using your numbers (me making $25,000 a year and you making $100,000 a year, and a tax rate of 20% for both of us,) you’ll pay approximately $20,000 to my $5,000 – this is assuming no further deductions or loopholes for either of us. That gives you a net income of $80,000 per year to my $20,000. It’s likely that you’ll be able to invest some of that money, whether weekly, monthly, or annually. It’s also likely that you’ll spend some of that money on goods and services, whether weekly, monthly, or annually – say, a vacation, a car, new furniture, etc… My $20,000 isn’t going to let me do that – or at least it’ll make it a bit more difficult to do so.

When you invest your money or buy goods and services, you stimulate the economy by, effectively, redistributing your money to someone else. (Before anyone jumps on the word ‘redistributing,’ remember that in this context I’m referring to the exchange of money for something in return – not just passing out money for nothing.) Buying goods stimulates the economy in that someone has to create those goods, someone has to transport those goods to market, and someone has to sell those goods. Buying services (say a meal in a restaurant,) stimulates the economy in that your purchase not only employs a server and cook, but the food suppliers, farmers, and transport personnel (among many others.)

Now remember that I’m keeping $20,000 of my annual salary. I’m less likely to buy a new plasma screen TV than you are, so I’m less of a factor to the overall economy than you are. You’re keeping $80,000, so you’ll be in a better position to buy that plasma screen TV.

Now, the tax rate suddenly changes – for you, anyway. You’re suddenly keeping $5,000 less a year. While some may argue that $5,000 isn’t all that much to someone making that kind of money, let me assure you that it is. That additional $5,000 will come out of your disposable income – the money you would have spent on goods, services, or investments. So you’re less likely to buy that plasma screen TV, buy that new car, or go on that vacation – and everyone involved in the businesses you would have patronized suffers for it. You only have to look at the number of stores, restaurants, and other small businesses that have closed down in your own town to see evidence of that.

Lest you think that disposable income isn’t all that important, or is restricted to the rich, let me ask you how many times a year you currently go to the moves, rent a DVD, or eat out? Are you more likely to do one of those things when you have more money in your pockets at the end of the week or month? Of course you are – you have the money to spend. I work in the casino industry – an industry that is dependent on disposable income. I’m living the results of a reduction of disposable income for the general public – people don’t have the money to spend, so they’re not spending the money they do have. They’re staying home because they just don’t have the money to spend on entertainment. The industry is suffering for it – and it’s not restricted to the casino industry. Nation-wide, hotel, restaurant, car rental, and theater incomes have dropped dramatically. The travel industry is really suffering.

By dropping the tax rates, therefore allowing you to keep more of your $100,000 per year, the gov’t is effectively putting more money back in your hands. You might save some of that money, but you’re more likely to spend it in one way or another. That’s what “supply-siders” hope for – and history proves that this is in fact the case. Given the opportunity to keep more of the money they’ve earned, the average American will spend it, therefore boosting the economy. It worked when JFK did it in the early 60s, and it worked again in the 80s under Reagan – in both cases revenue collected by the gov’t at least doubled because more people were buying and selling, creating more jobs that provided taxable income.

I know this a very long post, but it’s difficult to explain a dynamic economy in one or two sentences. I maintain that a dynamic economy can’t be taxed statically. I’m saying that while a 25% tax rate on your $100,000 might look good on paper, but when put under the spotlight of reality, it just doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. Yes the gov’t will collect $30,000 (using your numbers,) but misses out on the additional revenue it could have collected from the jobs you directly and indirectly created by spending that $5,000.

A good demonstration of that principal is the Luxury Tax of the 90s.

Starting in 1991, Washington levied a 10% tax on cars valued above $30,000, boats above $100,000, jewelry and furs above $10,000 and private planes above $250,000. Democrats like Ted Kennedy and then-Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell crowed publicly about how the rich would finally be paying their fair share.

But it wasn't long before congress realized they’d made a big mistake. The taxes took in $97 million less in their first year than had been projected — for the simple reason that people were buying a lot fewer of these goods from US suppliers. Boat building, a key industry in Messrs. Mitchell and Kennedy's home states of Maine and Massachusetts, was particularly hard hit. Yacht retailers reported a 77% drop in sales that year, while boat builders estimated layoffs at 25,000 – that’s 25,000 jobs lost. With bipartisan support, all but the car tax was repealed in 1993, and in 1996 Congress voted to phase that out too.

The boat-building industry still hasn’t fully recovered. We’re talking about an entire industry being seriously damaged on just a 10% tax, and a resulting estimated loss of $97 million in projected revenue. The congress viewed things statically, thinking that people would buy the same number of cars, boats, and such, and they’d just sit back and collect – well, it didn’t happen.

My point in this e-novel? Let people of ALL income brackets keep more of their own money and they’ll use it to boost the economy – then everyone wins. A flat tax may or may not be the answer – I really don’t know. I do know that in our current economy, tax increases of any kind is precisely the wrong thing to do. It’ll discourage people from spending and boosting the economy, which I think everyone would agree is what we really need right now.

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Reply #119 on: October 30, 2009, 09:42:27 PM
Dusty,

Well stated e-novel. Let the people keep more of their money and stimulate our economy. Fine in theory but right now, people are saving any extra money they have for fear of job loss, cutback of hours, etc. For years economists have chided the American people for not saving money. Now they are worried that because people are saving money, the exact notion you have stipulated in your post is not happening. Plus the government is spending like there is no tomorrow, all the while taking in less revenue.  Until the average person has some assurances that their jobs are relatively safe, discretionary spending will be very limited and our economy, if it does recover, will recover at a much slower pace then expected. Only my opinion though.

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