Trump Win A Shocker!

[Sensualtravler]

An American friend of mine is studying law.

We were chatting online yesterday, she said that the morning after the result, without any planning, her whole class arrived at their lectures wearing black.

Everyone at my lawfirm called in sick.  There was a sick-out at my children's high school also.

Somebody explain the point of all this.....
Do you think the Government will grind to a halt...??
The only thing I'm seeing is the "Entitled Generation" acting out their frustrations "yet again" about not getting what they wanted.
Has nobody ever explained to them that in an election (even in High School) there is a winner and a loser..??
My opinion (for what it's worth) is that I want to see what he manages to do in his first 100 days (I have a feeling that Congress is going to block him at everything he tries to do). This next 4 years might just be a "Do Nothing Government".

Love,
Liz
 

Love,
Liz

Why do you feel that way Liz, when both the House and Senate are now Republican?

[MissBarbara]

Somebody explain the point of all this.....
Do you think the Government will grind to a halt...??
The only thing I'm seeing is the "Entitled Generation" acting out their frustrations "yet again" about not getting what they wanted.
Has nobody ever explained to them that in an election (even in High School) there is a winner and a loser..??
My opinion (for what it's worth) is that I want to see what he manages to do in his first 100 days (I have a feeling that Congress is going to block him at everything he tries to do). This next 4 years might just be a "Do Nothing Government".

Love,
Liz
 

Why do you feel that way Liz, when both the House and Senate are now Republican?

I agree with ST. Now that Trump has been elected, Trump vs. GOP rancor will slip away, and he will work with Congress.

[MintJulie]

There has been heated discussions with my father who has never voted for a Democrat as president.   We generally do not talk about politics but he is a Republican that didn't want Trump, calling him a wolf in sheeps clothing.   Even saying Trump was a democrat just 8 years ago.

My dad came over tonight to help me put up some Christmas lights.   On the drive over he heard that Trump was considering keeping part of Obama care in place.   My dad doesn't swear very much, but after telling me about the news he had heard, he said, "I told you he's still a fucking democrat."

My worries of Trump being our next president............Driving my father to an early grave.   

I suggested he join the protests in Detroit.   He's considering it. 

[Elizabeth]

Now that Trump is going to be President, I think he will have to "temper" his mouth and his attitude. Republican Congress or not, I don't recall anybody supporting him from either the house or senate, hopefully that will all change. He's going to have to learn a whole new set of rules, those simply being "give and take" if he wants to get anything done. Being a "Bully" in Congress or at least trying to be, I doubt will get him very far. But as I said before, give him a fair chance and see what and how he does.

Love,
liz
 

[Sensualtravler]

I love the knowledge and eloquence of these protestors.

Nice scenery though. 

[watcher1]

Wasn't it the media who ran with the story that there may be violence in the streets if Trump was not elected, suggesting that people who voted for Trump are in some ways a violent sort of people?  Nice to see members of the media saying that they had a part in building up Clinton to a point that she would be the foregone winner.

Glad to see the youth out there protesting, even though many of them cannot vote yet. Not good to see some of them doing acts of violence. 

Best news headline I have seen so far about the Trump election: Holiday sales may be down this Christmas because people are too depressed to shop. Unbelievable.

[Elizabeth]

Hey Rick........
Don't forget all those students to depressed to take mid-terms and classes.
You know those same students that will scream at the end of the year simply because they didn't/won't get their diplomas (and of course blame it all on Trump).

Love,
Liz

[Sensualtravler]

There has been heated discussions with my father who has never voted for a Democrat as president.   We generally do not talk about politics but he is a Republican that didn't want Trump, calling him a wolf in sheeps clothing.   Even saying Trump was a democrat just 8 years ago.

My dad came over tonight to help me put up some Christmas lights.   On the drive over he heard that Trump was considering keeping part of Obama care in place.   My dad doesn't swear very much, but after telling me about the news he had heard, he said, "I told you he's still a fucking democrat."

My worries of Trump being our next president............Driving my father to an early grave.   

I suggested he join the protests in Detroit.   He's considering it. 

If Obama and Clinton hasn't driven your Father to an early grave Julie, I don't thing he has anything to worry about from Trump. LOL
'

[Katiebee]

You have elected a president, not an Emperor.

And the fear that is based upon his personality and his actions, is that HE thinks he was made royalty and has ascended the throne. His comments are very strikingly pointed toward the belief that HE can do the governance by himself. Without Congress.

Almost as though he can rule by decree, in fact as well as in desire.

[Sensualtravler]

You have elected a president, not an Emperor.

And the fear that is based upon his personality and his actions, is that HE thinks he was made royalty and has ascended the throne. His comments are very strikingly pointed toward the belief that HE can do the governance by himself. Without Congress.

Almost as though he can rule by decree, in fact as well as in desire.

Sounds as if you're describing Obama and his flaunting of Executive order.

[Sensualtravler]

If Obama and Clinton hasn't driven your Father to an early grave Julie, I don't thing he has anything to worry about from Trump. LOL
'

What specific things has Obama done in the last 8 years that bother you and for what reason do they bother you?

His constant abuse of Executive order.

His constant attempt to define areas of our Constitution to suit his personal agendas.

His compensatory appointment of Hillary as Secretary of State after 2004 election.

Not keeping almost all of his pre 2004 election promises, even after 8 years.

His and Clintons lies about the reasons for the attack in Benghazi.

Attacks on our 2nd amendment.

Being an apologist and cow-towing to foreign governments.
-------------------------------------------------------------
The reasons should be self explanatory.

[Katiebee]

Sensualtraveler, there has been no abuse of executive orders. They have been well within the executive mandate. Just not what you like.

All presidents define their actions within the constitution, and according to all experts, he has not exceeded the powers granted by the constitution.

The president, contrary to your wishes, is allowed to nominate HIS choices for his cabinet. For his reasons, not your preferences.

 Obviously Benghazi is a big deal for you. Well I see that your conservative representatives have cleared Clinton of any wrong doing SIX FUCKING TIMES.

You can't accept that can you? Perhaps you ought to wake up and realize you are wrong.

2nd Amendment attacks? You are delusional. There have been none.

It's hard to keep campaign promises when the opposite party decides to oppose all of your platform. Remember that the Democratic Party isn't the same monolithic ideological driven party that the Republicans are.

As for foreign policy, I guess you are of the opinion that we should bomb the rest of the world back to the Stone Age, for your claim makes absolutely no sense in context with what is happening.

Or are you ready to go to war with Russia?

[watcher1]

Think the major reason Obama used his Executive Privilege powers was that he kept being stonewalled by Congress on issues important to him or his constituents.

[Elizabeth]

Are you ready to go to war with Russia?

Let's take a "PASS" on this.......I'd rather not do that.
Besides, I'm not so sure that we are the super power that we think we are (anymore). But I am willing to bet that a "War With Russia", the outcome would be a very simple "No One Won, And Everyone Lost".

Love,
Liz

[Lois]

Yes, America will do fine.  All Trump has to do is spend lots of money on government projects (the wall) and increase military spending and there will be lots of jobs and the economy will boom.  Also, cutting taxes on the wealthiest Americans will make them happy.  If he does these things he will be a very popular President.

My concern is the aftermath, when the next president inherits a huge debt and unrealistic expectations.

My big fears are twofold: 1) Possible attacks on the Constitution and the erosion of civil rights, and 2) Foreign conflicts and the possible use of nuclear weapons.

You have elected a president, not an Emperor. [/guote]

I am aware of this.  I hope Trump is.  A great deal can be done with the use of executive power. I became aware of politics in the days of Nixon, and his abuses bothered me a great deal.

Perhaps most importantly, fear mongering with what may perhaps possibly some day happen for polemical reasons does no good for anyone.

I am sorry that being honest about my fears is seen by you as fear mongering. If I was saying "OMG!  Trump is going to destroy America!", then yes, possible fear mongering.  But to state "My fears are ....." is not fear mongering, but rather being honest about my own fears.

I suspect your attack of "fear mongering" directed at me has more to do with your dislike of the me rather than listening to what I am trying to communicate.

[ChirpingGirl]

Are you ready to go to war with Russia?

Let's take a "PASS" on this.......I'd rather not do that.
Besides, I'm not so sure that we are the super power that we think we are (anymore). But I am willing to bet that a "War With Russia", the outcome would be a very simple "No One Won, And Everyone Lost".

Love,
Liz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpmGXeAtWUw

[Lois]

If Obama and Clinton hasn't driven your Father to an early grave Julie, I don't thing he has anything to worry about from Trump. LOL
'

What specific things has Obama done in the last 8 years that bother you and for what reason do they bother you?

His constant abuse of Executive order.

His constant attempt to define areas of our Constitution to suit his personal agendas.

His compensatory appointment of Hillary as Secretary of State after 2004 election.

Not keeping almost all of his pre 2004 election promises, even after 8 years.

His and Clintons lies about the reasons for the attack in Benghazi.

Attacks on our 2nd amendment.

Being an apologist and cow-towing to foreign governments.
-------------------------------------------------------------
The reasons should be self explanatory.

LOL!

And the election promises already keep tumbling one after another in a matter of days.

1) Now only parts of Obamacare will be repealed.

2) Trump said first thing he would do is to appoint a special prosecutor to go after Hillary, now says other things come first.

3) Build a wall all along the Mexican Border? Now all of a sudden it will be partly fenced?  Mind you, the border is already fenced, and walls along critical portions were built under under Bill Clinton.

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37969112

[MissBarbara]

LOL!

And the election promises already keep tumbling one after another in a matter of days.

1) Now only parts of Obamacare will be repealed.

2) Trump said first thing he would do is to appoint a special prosecutor to go after Hillary, now says other things come first.

3) Build a wall all along the Mexican Border? Now all of a sudden it will be partly fenced?  Mind you, the border is already fenced, and walls along critical portions were built under under Bill Clinton.

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37969112

Do you think it's a bad thing that Trump is walking back on these issues? Specifically, do you think that Trump declining to immediately appoint a special prosecutor to "go after" (your words) Hillary Clinton.

Do you believe that Trump is the first president in U.S. to walk back election promises?

Finally, Trump, as president, has zero authority or ability to repeal the ACA, neither in whole nor in part. The ACA was passed by Congress, and only Congress has the authority to abolish or amend it.

[IdleBoast]

This electoral college thing is odd - how can it be democratic if a majority vote for X, but Y ends up in power?

Technically, a U.S. president is indirectly elected: Voters for for electors, who in turn vote for the president. In other words, it's determined on a state-by-state basis. It has happened more than a few times in our history that a candidate has won the popular vote, but lost the electoral vote. This is what happened in 2000, as well as several times in the 1800s.

There are good arguments for abolishing the Electoral College and switching to a system where the president is elected directly, by the popular vote. There are also good arguments for keeping things the way they are -- chiefly the way in which campaign contributions would have an even larger role in determining an election's outcome. Either way, this topic only comes up for discussion when there is a close election, and it is brought up exclusively by those on the losing side.

Has the raw voting data been published?  I saw a comment from a pundit that 53% of voters earning below $50k voted for Clinton, and that most of Trump's votes came from those on higher wages, which isn't exactly the "rise of the little people" that this is being presented as, so I was wondering what the real picture is?

This information does not exist as "raw data." Voting itself is anonymous. Post-election data of this type comes primarily from post-voting polls. Polls only give a "flavor," and never raw data. Right now there's no information indicating either side of this argument, though I suspect that pundit was both speculating...and wrong.

Here's a vital point: The chief reason why Trump's victory was deemed by many to be "a shocker" is that far too much reliance was placed on polling data (well, that and the fact that the polling data was likely faulty). Judging by what people "said," a Clinton victory seemed assured. But it was far from it, as the results proved. The vituperative hatred of Trump in many circles created a situation in many parts of the country -- especially outside the South -- where many Trump supporters were afraid to express their support for Trump. Thus, they said nothing -- but DID something when they entered the voting booths on Tuesday.

I had a back-of-an-envelope-after-a-pint-or-three explanation of the history of the college since I posted that - voting strength linked to numbers of slaves owned etc.

I've also seen articles over here saying that, by the time all votes are finally counted, the popular vote will end up in Hillary's favour by around 2 million.

That means that she got the highest popular vote of any president in history, excepting only Obama.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/us-election-hillary-clinton-more-votes-popular-vote-any-candidate-barack-obama-donald-trump-a7413596.html

To my mind, that gives those complaining about the result have a valid point to make (though I am not suggesting that the result be overturned).

[MissBarbara]

I had a back-of-an-envelope-after-a-pint-or-three explanation of the history of the college since I posted that - voting strength linked to numbers of slaves owned etc.

I've also seen articles over here saying that, by the time all votes are finally counted, the popular vote will end up in Hillary's favour by around 2 million.

That means that she got the highest popular vote of any president in history, excepting only Obama.

To my mind, that gives those complaining about the result have a valid point to make (though I am not suggesting that the result be overturned).

It does seem likely that Clinton will receive "the highest popular vote of any president in history, excepting only Obama."

But that's a pretty meaningless point, given that the total U.S. population increases quadrennially. In fact, it's more of a point against her, since her estimated popular vote total will be less than Obama in 2012 and 2008, and only slightly more than Bush in 2004.

Electoral votes stopped be tied to slave ownership about 150 years ago, and I'm pretty sure it didn't play a role in this election.

There is an argument for overhauling or abolishing the electoral college, and there are valid points to be made on either side of the debate. But the argument that Clinton should be the victor since she won the most popular votes is erroneous, since that is not, nor has it ever been, the way presidents are elected in the U.S. And, as I noted above, there have been several instances when a president won the popular vote and lost the electoral vote. Like it or not, agree with it not, that's the way the system works.

Somewhat troublingly, as witnessed by posts here over the past few days, the overwhelming majority of Americans haven't the slightest idea what the electoral college, and why it was established (i.e. why U.S. presidents are neither directly nor indirectly elected).

And, most to the point, the existence of the Electoral College played no role in Clinton's losing the election. Perhaps now is the time to enjoin an intelligent, fact-based and history-based discussion about the continued existence of this body.