U.S. Women's Soccer Team Members Sue for Wage Discrimination

[MissBarbara]

Five top female soccer players, including World Cup M.V.P. Carli Lloyd, are accusing U.S. Soccer of wage bias

Thursday, March 31, 2016

Five key members of the United States women’s national soccer team, the reigning Women’s World Cup and Olympic champion, plan to file a federal complaint Thursday charging U.S. Soccer with wage discrimination.

In the filing, the five players will contend that the women’s team is the driving economic force for U.S. Soccer, the governing body for the sport in America, even as its players are paid far less than their counterparts on the men’s national team, their lawyer, Jeffrey Kessler, said.

The players involved in the complaint are among the most prominent and decorated female athletes in the world: the co-captains Carli Lloyd and Becky Sauerbrunn, forward Alex Morgan, midfielder Megan Rapinoe and goalkeeper Hope Solo.


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/01/sports/soccer/uswnt-us-women-carli-lloyd-alex-morgan-hope-solo-complain.html?emc=edit_na_20160331&nlid=2503576&ref=cta



I am not normally one to instantly jump on the feminist bandwagon. But in this instance, it seems the "equal pay for equal work" doctrine should apply. And, tangentially, the fact that women are forced to play on turf (as in the recent Women's World Cub hosted by Canada) while men play on grass, is completely absurd. As someone who has played on both surfaces, I can tell you that there is no comparison, and turf is completely inferior.

There is, I will admit, a certain bias to this article, chiefly in the way that it does not compare revenue between the men's and women's organizations. This is a serious flaw, both to the article and, it might prove, to the lawsuit. The women's players' assertions are based on on-the-field success vs. the men (which is undeniably true) and TV viewership for a small handful of matches. The Women's World Cup final last summer was the most-watched soccer match in U.S. history. But that was only one match.

I'd love to see more detailed comparison of the three major sources or revenue, i.e. TV contracts, ticket receipts, and licensing revenue. If these are comparable, then the women unquestionably deserve equal pay. If they are not, then the women's team faces the same problem as WNBA teams: The quality of play and success of the teams are, in this context, irrelevant. Sports, in the end, is part of the entertainment business, and it is a business, with revenue generation proving the key to remuneration.

[MissBarbara]

The cause of the wage difference here is most likely due to the difference in payout from FIFA for men and womens' teams in soccer. As you said, the men's team may also bring in more revenue in TV rights sales and advertising. Presuming that's the case (since the alternative would be overt sexism for the sake of overt sexism) there's not a lot US Soccer can do about it.

Besides, given the obscene amounts of money professional sports players receive for what they contribute, I'd sooner argue for a cut to the men's wages than for a pay increase for the women.

From what I've read since I posted that, that seems a precise summary of the situation.

My seeming reversal of my original comments was based on the fact that "it isn't fair!" is hardly a determinant. If it were blatant sexism, or financial corruption, it wouldn't be fair. But that simply is not the case.

From a quick google search, it seems there's a significant pay discrepancy in U.S. women's professional soccer vs. men's (i.e. the MLS vs. the NWLS). But that seems to parallel the NBA vs. WNBA situation, where the revenue generated by the NBA incomparably outstrips the WNBA.

Having watched many, many matches in both the men's and women's World Cup, it's also worth noting that the men's and women's games are significantly different, in some ways strikingly so (and there's a pun in there somewhere...).

[watcher1]

In a system mainly dominated by males, who wouldn't be surprised that the women earn less then the men. I would bet that all women players in all the different sports get paid way less then their male counterparts.  Not saying it is right.  The governing body of FIFA has already been proven to be corrupt.

[MissBarbara]

In a system mainly dominated by males, who wouldn't be surprised that the women earn less then the men. I would bet that all women players in all the different sports get paid way less then their male counterparts.  Not saying it is right.  The governing body of FIFA has already been proven to be corrupt.

Interesting thoughts. Especially in your pointing out the endemic and systemic corruption of FIFA. In the U.S. we talk about sports-related "scandals" all the time, but I doubt there's anything in the entire history of American sports (with the possible exception of the "Black Sox" scandal in the early 20th century) that comes even close to rivaling the scandals surrounding soccer's international governing body.

I'll admit that when I first read about this yesterday morning, my first reaction was along the lines of "You Go Girls!" And not just because Megan Repinoe is one of my dream girls. But upon reading and thinking about this further, I've backed off that initial reaction.

As GB pointed out, female athletes are not being deliberately discriminated against simply because they're women. And this isn't a situation of equal work demanding equal pay. In other words, I think the most germane question is this: Should female athletes be compensated parallel to men if their leagues do not produce the same revenue as men's?

To use an analogy, "equal pay for equal work" means that two attorneys working for the same law firm with the same responsibilities should receive equal compensation. But it doesn't mean that a male attorney working at a high power firm in Manhattan and a female attorney working at a small firm in Schenectady should receive equal compensation. And that seems to be the case here.




   

[phtlc]

Besides, given the obscene amounts of money professional sports players receive for what they contribute, I'd sooner argue for a cut to the men's wages than for a pay increase for the women.

How do you make that happen without sports fans boycotting the games? Here in Canuckistan I hear people complaining about how high paid the Maple Leafs players are, and how pricey the tickets are, yet their seats are always sold out.

[jondalart]

The women need to do what the men once did.

About 40 years ago, all athletes were exploited with low wage and sometimes high injury risk. In instances were there was a lot of money involved at the time, which were male dominated sports, the athletes had form unions, go on strike, form alternate leagues. Eventually the stars of the show got paid extremeley well.

I think social media protests may work to get a nudge, but the end of the day, if the people making the millions off of womens soccer did not have a team on the field, they would pay a more fair wage. They pay does have to be in a dertain proportion to revenue minus fixed costs, and if women games cannot get the same revenue, the the pay will be less.

[watcher1]

As GB pointed out, female athletes are not being deliberately discriminated against simply because they're women. And this isn't a situation of equal work demanding equal pay. In other words, I think the most germane question is this: Should female athletes be compensated parallel to men if their leagues do not produce the same revenue as men's?

That is what the overly male dominated owners of women teams are using for their reason why women athletes are paid less -women sports do not bring in the same revenue as men sports do.  Even the corporate sponsorships of women's sports are few compared to the big bucks they throw at the men's sports. 

Professional women's sports have not been around as long as the men's but with increased interest by girls in school and college sports, the demand for more women sports to be televised will increase, drawing more interest which in turn equates into more money. 

[Lois]

Maybe we should start a rumor that men watching men play sports is kinda gay.  Not that it's a bad thing.   

[MissBarbara]

Maybe we should start a rumor that men watching men play sports is kinda gay.  Not that it's a bad thing.   

I was watching a Bears game a couple of years ago and the announcer said that a player "got penetration on the tight end."

That is sooooooo gay!

[SloppySeconds]

In free markets, we get paid who much money we generate.   If women sports don't generate equal box office sakes as men, they should get paid less.  If women sports generate more money than a man's sport, women should get paid less.

It's ironic these women who are capitalist (earning as much as they can based on their talent) are complaining live is not equal.   All pro sports, actors, CEO, CFO, doctors, attorneys are commodities.

[Shiela_M]

If women sports don't generate equal box office sakes as men, they should get paid less.  If women sports generate more money than a man's sport, women should get paid less.

Really? What the fuck is this ignorance? 🤬

[Asmodel]

In free markets, we get paid who much money we generate.   If women sports don't generate equal box office sakes as men, they should get paid less.  If women sports generate more money than a man's sport, women should get paid less.

Y0 SS,

S0 PLEASE JUST

[Wildcat666]

In free markets, we get paid who much money we generate.   If women sports don't generate equal box office sakes as men, they should get paid less.  If women sports generate more money than a man's sport, women should get paid less.

It's ironic these women who are capitalist (earning as much as they can based on their talent) are complaining live is not equal.   All pro sports, actors, CEO, CFO, doctors, attorneys are commodities.

Nothing comes free. The girls have made a lot of sacrifices through their youth to reach the top level they are on. Just like the men.

Capitalist?? These girls work for years to get a chance to make a living in their sports. Just like the men.

The number of years the women can stay at the top and make money in their sport is very limited. Just like the men.

This is not 9-5. The women have to work hard to stay on top and there are many days away from family and friends. Just like the men.

The United States women's national soccer team is currently considered the best women's soccer team in the world. They are bringing lots of medals, joy and good old American pride to their country. - The men’s national team, not so much

I don’t have numbers on how much TV time the two national teams have compared to each other but maybe one can read some of the answer when looking at the top question when you google “us men's soccer team”:

“Does the US have a men's soccer team?”

So. All in all, I don´t think women should be paid the same in this case. They should be paid more

And all of this came from a scandinavian cave man. 

[staci]

Got my Woo wildone

[Dirtymind]

I saw a vid from an attorney a while back on this topic who broke down this whole process. This is what I can remember

The money and audience in the mens game vs the woman's game cannot be compared. The men's world cup generates 10-15 times more sponsorship and a massively bigger audience.

The woman fought for and got a deal where they're paid the same match fees and bonusses as the men. In essence for the amount of the money generated by a world cup for instance, the woman gets a much bigger cut than the men, by a factor of 3 or 4.

Now this is where it gets interesting. For the medical portion of the contract the woman wanted to be treated exactly like the men. The association pay the insurance, but not the medical fees for players. Nor are injured players paid. The women agreed to this. Everyone cheered this as a great step forward for equality.

Until the women realised that won't be getting paid if they're unable to play due to pregnancy.

So after getting everything the men got, and arguably more, the women are now suing to get a better deal than the men, to cover pregnancy.

Surely if equality was the issue, the women should argue for a better medical deal for both sexes, not just the women?

[watcher1]

It has been long overdue that all professional women's sports come to equality with the men's sports.  It won't happen overnight because of long standing biases against women. But it is a start. Professional soccer in the US is nowhere near what it is in Europe in pay or play but we can only hope that it will one day draw top talent and along with top talent, the large payrolls.

The Ladies Professional Golf Association recently announced that their purse money for tournaments has been greatly increased. Another step in the right direction.

[Dirtymind]