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The Trump thread: All things Donald

joan1984 · 282084

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Offline Athos_131

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Reply #3500 on: December 06, 2017, 11:57:22 PM
Something is fishy.

John Dowd claims he authored the tweet that made it pretty clear Trump obstructed justice in the Comey firing over Flynn.

The DOJ stated in a filing that Trump's tweets are official presidential position.

Given these statements, why is John Dowd setting presidential policy?

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Offline Athos_131

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Reply #3501 on: December 08, 2017, 01:09:46 AM
 "  Russia,  Russia , Russia  "

Exclusive: Previously undisclosed emails show follow-up after Trump Tower meeting

This might be explain the surfeit of comically hypocritical posts by joan1984.

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Offline Northwest

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Reply #3502 on: December 08, 2017, 07:16:00 PM
More on the consequences of putting a crazed dotard in the White House:

Trump’s 'fake news' mantra a hit with despots

Leaders or state media in at least 15 countries use the president’s favorite denunciation to quell dissent, question human rights violations.



Authoritarian rulers across the globe are adopting President Donald Trump’s favorite phrase to limit free speech, with prominent leaders or state media in at least 15 countries using his “fake news” line to denounce their critics, according to a POLITICO review.

By aligning themselves with Trump’s words, despots have been able to use the U.S. president as a shield for their attacks on press freedom and human rights, said Joel Simon, executive director of the Committee to Protect Journalists.

“I’m seeing it more and more,” he said. Trump, he added, “is providing a context and framework for all sorts of authoritarian leaders—or democratic leaders and others who are dissatisfied or upset by critical media coverage—to undermine and discredit reporting.”

In February, for example, Syrian President Bashar Assad brushed off an Amnesty International report that some 13,000 people had been killed at one of his military prisons by saying, “You can forge anything these days, we are living in a fake news era.”

In the Philippines, President Rodrigo Duterte has complained of being “demonized” by “fake news.” Last month, with Trump laughing by his side, he called reporters “spies.”

And in a meta-moment in July, Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro complained to RT, the Russian propaganda outlet, that the world media had “spread lots of false versions, lots of lies” about his country, adding, “This is what we call 'fake news' today, isn't it?”

Over the weekend, a state official in Myanmar attracted notice when he said, “There is no such thing as Rohingya. It is fake news,” referring to the persecuted ethnic group.

Those are hardly the only examples of Trump’s phrase being deployed internationally: In March, Chinese state media dismissed a prominent rights activist’s account of torture as “fake news.” And in May, the People’s Daily ran an op-ed with the headline, “Trump is right, fake news is the enemy, something China has known for years.”

During a July press conference in Warsaw with Polish President Andrzej Duda, Trump complained about “fake news” CNN, before turning to Duda and asking if he dealt with the same problems. Duda, who has cracked down aggressively on the press, smiled and nodded. That same day, after a mini-controversy over whether Duda’s wife snubbed Trump for a handshake, the Polish president declared on Twitter, “Contrary to some surprising reports my wife did shake hands with Mrs. and Mr. Trump @POTUS after a great visit. Let's FIGHT FAKE NEWS.”

Last week, Libyan media jumped on a Trump tweet accusing CNN of reporting “fake news” to attempt to undermine a report by the network on modern day slavery within the country.

The Russian foreign ministry’s website drops big red “Fake news” stamps on stories it deems untrue.

Even Spain’s foreign minister said that police violence against Catalonians during their independence referendum was “fake news,” despite photos and videos to the contrary.

The list goes on to Uganda, Somaliland, Angola, Cambodia and Turkey. Leaders in Singapore, a country known for restricting free speech, have promised “Fake news” legislation in the new year.

“These governments, they’re pushing the boundaries of what it’s possible to get away with in terms of controlling their national media,” said Steve Coll, the dean of Columbia Journalism School, “and there’s no question that this kind of speech makes it easier for them to stretch those boundaries.”

White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders pushed back against the idea that Trump bears responsibility. “This story is really ridiculous,” she said in an email. “The president isn’t against free speech but we do think reporting should be accurate.”

The phrase’s spread has come against a backdrop of rising violence and persecution against journalists—at the end of 2016, the Committee to Protect Journalists counted 259 reporters jailed around the world, more than any year since it began counting in 1990. (The organization expects updated numbers for 2017 soon.)

Trump’s go-to insult has become such a touchstone that members of far-right groups or political parties in countries like the Netherlands or Germany often write “fake news” in English in their tweets, said Cas Mudde, an international affairs professor at the University of Georgia.

“I have seen it particularly in social media used by radical right leaders who have been clearly influenced by Trump’s use,” he said. “Even if they have a tweet in Dutch, there will be a hashtag #fakenews in it.”

“Ironically, you could call this the soft power of the U.S.,” he said. “The U.S. always had massive soft power -- you just think about hip-hop or McDonald’s.”

Trump has claimed that he invented the term, but in reality, it predates him. In the initial 2016 election conception, “fake news” described fabricated news stories meant to deceive readers, primarily on social media. But shortly after his election, Trump began using it to refute mainstream news stories—or entire outlets—he disagreed with.

“He took this term that had been used against him and turned it into a weapon against the media itself,” Simon said. “The meaning has been so diluted and distorted that it’s just become an insult without a lot of meaning.”

As a result, Coll said, it’s obscured the concerns around actual fake news. “We’ve lost the engagement through that phrase with something that is truly new and important,” he said. “It meant originally to refer to something distinct, but it no longer does, and that’s kind of an achievement of the president’s appropriation of the term.”

In Singapore, for example, leaders are billing the anticipated “Fake news” law as a way to fight against the same scourge of disinformation that plagued the U.S. election. But given the regime’s history of restricting free speech, it’s easy to imagine it being used to squash dissent.

Ruth Ben-Ghiat, a history professor at New York University who studies authoritarianism, said that, to her, the phrase does now have a clear meaning: “It’s anything that contradicts with a leader’s version of reality,” she said, pointing to the situation in Myanmar. “You can will away genocide, you can will away events that you didn’t want people to know happened.”

Ben-Ghiat recently published a New Yorker story asking why so many fascist memorials remain in Italy, and was stunned by the number of responses she received in Italian on Twitter that attacked her using the phrase “fake news,” once again, in English.

“People still see the president of the United States as a very important figure. That’s his slogan,” she said. “It’s one prong of a program that also is dismissing human rights, the whole turn against liberal democracy, the new illiberalism.”

Leaders, of course, have been seeking to stifle dissenting voices since long before Trump, but Simon said that the cudgel of “fake news” gives them an additional tool. Traditionally, he said, repressive leaders most often justify silencing reporters by citing the fight against terrorism. “I don’t think it’s going to supplant anti-terror,” he said, “but I think it will supplement it quite nicely.”

Trump’s attacks on the “fake news media” have signaled that protecting freedom of speech is not a priority for the country, essentially handing the world a permission slip, Mudde said.

“A lot of countries look to the U.S. partly for inspiration, but mostly as the policeman of the world,” said Mudde. “If you see that the policeman actually doesn’t care about freedom of speech and the free press anymore, you feel that you don’t have to care too much either.”

Coll, the Columbia dean, said that promoting freedom of speech has always been a pillar of American policy, no matter which party has been in power.

“This has been such a constant of American voicing in the world. And it’s not just about press freedom, it’s about religious freedom, it’s about democratic participation, more recently about women’s rights, about LGBT rights,” he said. “To just kind of turn around and coin a phrase that gives cover in this way—it’s one of those aspects of this time that we’re in that you really have to step back and think about to recognize what a departure it is.”

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/08/trump-fake-news-despots-287129



Offline joan1984

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Reply #3503 on: December 08, 2017, 07:41:53 PM
 Sometimes, the truth really hurts, eh?  So long as media outlets editorialize in their Headlines and Slant as to what is reported, emphasis, and what is not reported, individuals must presume all 'news' hey hear, and see on TV, to be biased, tainted, not the whole truth no matter the source.

  People of any country need to be their own best friends, and learn to filter the 'news' they see, to best understand what may actually be happening in life. This is always a prudent thing to do, and is emphasized by the network issues of Dan Rather, and virtually all the mainstream 'news' reporters since him, if not prior to him.

  The getting it out first, 24/7 new cycle created by online reporting, simply makes it so readily noticed.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 08:48:43 PM by Katiebee »

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Offline Northwest

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Reply #3504 on: December 08, 2017, 08:08:34 PM
I don't know, Joan, it sound like only the mentally challenged are continuing to hold on to arguments like you keep making. How isolated do you have to get before you realize you're just plain wrong? Looks like we're going to find out.

Keep in mind while reading this opinion piece that Jennifer Rubin writes from a conservative, right of center perspective. The synopsis; this is what a failed presidency looks like.

How low can Trump go?
By Jennifer Rubin December 8 at 12:00 PM



The Pew Research Center finds:

    Currently, 32% of the public approves of the way [President] Trump is handling his job as president, while 63% disapprove. Trump’s job approval is little changed since October (34%), but lower than in early February (39%), a few weeks after Trump’s inauguration. …

    While just 30% of Americans think senior Trump officials definitely had improper contacts with Russia during the campaign, a majority (59%) thinks such contacts definitely or probably occurred; 30% think they definitely or probably did not happen. In views of [special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s] investigation, 56% are very or somewhat confident he will conduct the probe fairly.


There is no good news there for Trump or Republicans. Passage of tax legislation in both houses (still to be reconciled) and nonstop blather about the “deep state” and the “corrupt” FBI (odd rhetoric for the GOP to demean law enforcement, isn’t it?) have not arrested a historic slide in approval. (“Trump’s job rating of 32% is lower than those of recent presidents dating back to Ronald Reagan near the end of their first year in office.”)

Trump is not holding onto his base despite grandstanding efforts (e.g. moving the embassy to Jerusalem, attacking the special counsel). It seems that “his job ratings are lower today among Republicans than they were in February. … Currently, 76% of Republicans and Republican leaners approve of Trump’s job performance, compared with 84% who did so in February.” His ratings with other groups are remarkably poor:

    Trump’s job rating has declined among several groups that gave him relatively high ratings in February, including older adults (38% of those 50 and older approve today, compared with 47% who did so in February) and whites (41% now, 49% then), as well as white evangelical Protestants (61% now, 78% then). … While 40% of men approve of the way Trump is handling his job as president, only 25% of women do so. Fewer than a third of adults with postgraduate degrees (24%) or four-year college degrees (27%) approve of the way Trump is handling his job, compared with 35% of those who have not completed college.

Trump’s incessant focus on his base is very likely an attempt to insulate himself from any findings the special counsel may present. And it’s not a winning strategy. Republicans are not as critical of Mueller as one might expect, given the nonstop propaganda from Fox News and the rest of the right-wing echo chamber. The Pew poll finds that “44% of Republicans and Republican leaners are at least somewhat confident that Robert Mueller will conduct a fair investigation, compared with 68% of Democrats and Democratic leaners. … Among Republicans and Republican leaners, 58% of those who say senior Trump officials probably or definitely had improper contact with Russia during the 2016 campaign are at least somewhat confident in Mueller to conduct a fair investigation, compared with 39% of those who think no improper contact occurred.”

Things don’t look much better for Republicans when you drill down on 2018 Senate and House races. For example, Cook Political Report says: “In a recruiting victory for Democrats, former Gov. Phil Bredesen announced today that he will run for the open seat created by the retirement of GOP U.S. Sen. Bob Corker. Bredesen’s announcement puts the race into the Toss Up column, a rating change that has larger implications for the 2018 Senate map.” Depending on what happens in Alabama’s special Senate election on Tuesday, Democrats have a small but not insubstantial chance of winning both houses.

It’s heartening to see that selling lies and throwing red meat to a narrow contingent of the electorate don’t get you much support — or even help you retain the support you once had. Trump hasn’t been able to arrest the steady erosion in his support. But he has been able to galvanize opposition. That’s quite an accomplishment after just 11 months in office.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2017/12/08/how-low-can-trump-go/



Offline joan1984

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Reply #3505 on: December 08, 2017, 08:24:46 PM
So another mainstream media opinion piece, dressed as reporting on news. When you say "right of center" how do you arrive at tha designation. Is this perhaps a person less left of center than you are?

Was she a Cruz supporter in the Republican Primaries in 2016? How would you know if someone is 'right of center' at all, given your own bias which you all seem to believe is 'just about right' politically.

Perhaps she is not known for rabid, pussy hat wearing, Antifa suppoting,
 anti-Trump reporting lately? Would that be 'right of center' to you? Is she a past Obama supporter, like James Comey, SC Mueller, virtually all the Special Counsel's hired guns in the "Russia" investigation?

What would you consider a CENTER position, or reporter, specifically?
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 08:30:35 PM by joan1984 »

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Offline Northwest

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Reply #3506 on: December 08, 2017, 08:38:26 PM
...When you say "right of center" how do you arrive at tha designation. Is this perhaps a person less left of center than you are?

Click the link and read, Joan; that's why I put it there. She defines herself as right of center. Her regular opinion column is called "Right Turn", and her blurb (at the bottom of the article) says:

Quote
Jennifer Rubin writes the Right Turn blog for The Post, offering reported opinion from a conservative perspective.

I take her at her word when she says she writes from a conservative perspective. I can understand your confusion, however, because she doesn't come across as stupid. There are, in fact, some conservatives who have not embraced stupidity. I understand that this might be hard to swallow for someone in your position.



Offline Katiebee

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Reply #3507 on: December 08, 2017, 08:49:01 PM
  Sometimes, the truth really hurts, eh?  So long as media outlets editorialize in their Headlines and Slant as to what is reported, emphasis, and what is not reported, individuals must presume all 'news' hey hear, and see on TV, to be biased, tainted, not the whole truth no matter the source.

  People of any country need to be their own best friends, and learn to filter the 'news' they see, to best understand what may actually be happening in life. This is always a prudent thing to do, and is emphasized by the network issues of Dan Rather, and virtually all the mainstream 'news' reporters since him, if not prior to him.

  The getting it out first, 24/7 new cycle created by online reporting, simply makes it so readily noticed.

So you are ok with our president aligning himself with dictators and other authoritarians?

Why do you hate America?

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Offline joan1984

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Reply #3508 on: December 08, 2017, 09:25:37 PM
  Even your trolling report does not claim President Trump aligned himself with anyone, but rather the opposite. I know the news is fake here, regarding most of what is said about our President, and can only vouch for him, not other leaders who also are not amused by biased reporting of 'media' experts.

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Offline Athos_131

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Reply #3509 on: December 09, 2017, 12:33:35 AM
I know the news is fake here,



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Offline Athos_131

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Reply #3510 on: December 09, 2017, 12:35:44 AM
December 6, 2017 - 47% Of U.S. Women Say They've Been Sexually Assaulted, Quinnipiac University National Poll Finds; People Speaking Up Will Make U.S. Better, Americans Say

Quote
It is hypocritical for President Trump to criticize men accused of sexual harassment, 73 percent of Americans say, while 16 percent say he has a right to criticize these men.

The U.S. Congress should investigate accusations of sexual harassment against President Trump, Americans say 70 - 25 percent.

"The message to President Donald Trump on calling out offenders: People who live in glass houses, even if it's the White House, shouldn't point fingers," Malloy said.

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Offline Athos_131

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Reply #3511 on: December 09, 2017, 12:46:07 AM
I know the news is fake here,

On a serious note, if you truly believe this why should anyone engage in a dialogue with you here?

Screaming fake news at everything you dislike isn't a counterargument, it's just a lazy and ill-educated position.

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Reply #3512 on: December 09, 2017, 01:09:14 AM
I know the news is fake here,

On a serious note, if you truly believe this why should anyone engage in a dialogue with you here?

Screaming fake news at everything you dislike isn't a counterargument, it's just a lazy and ill-educated position.

#Resist

Exactly.

Fake news is what you claim when you dislike something, but have no basis to make a rational argument against it.



Offline joan1984

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Reply #3513 on: December 09, 2017, 01:44:14 AM
Athos, please stop all dialog with me. Thank you.

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Offline Athos_131

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Reply #3514 on: December 09, 2017, 01:50:49 AM
Athos, please stop all dialog with me. Thank you.

Are you so cowardly you refuse to answer the question?

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Reply #3515 on: December 09, 2017, 02:25:50 AM
I know that Trump is fake. Fake hair, fake brain, fake tan, fake teeth. Every about Trump is fake. He's a fake president.



Offline Athos_131

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Reply #3516 on: December 09, 2017, 02:30:04 AM
He's not a fake racist, misogynist, or grifter.

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Reply #3517 on: December 09, 2017, 05:34:34 AM
Yes, Athos. He is all the things you said he is.

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Reply #3518 on: December 09, 2017, 03:30:45 PM
He has a 32% approval rating now.  I wonder if this gradual fleeing of support has pealed away all the non-deplorables yet, and this represents the foul putrid core of deplorables?

I suppose it's possible there are a few decent people in that 32%, people who allow right wing pundits to do their thinking for them.  I sometimes wonder if thinking for themselves makes their head hurt or something?



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Reply #3519 on: December 09, 2017, 06:55:07 PM
Yes, Athos. He is all the things you said he is.

You forgot one.......

He's an embarrassment to not only the United States but to the Free World as well.....

Love,
Liz