The Trump thread: All things Donald

[Athos_131]

Russian ambassador told Moscow that Kushner wanted secret communications channel with Kremlin

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[Lois]

I just spotted the following headline:

Trump Reportedly Called Germans ‘Very Bad,’ Vowed To Stop German Car Sales In The U.S.

Now I can't think of anything except potential Onion satire based on this:

"Wealthy Trump voters finally say that now Trump has gone too far, in response to BMW/Mercedes import ban"
 

[Athos_131]

While campaigning, Merkel says Europeans can't 'completely' rely on US, others

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[Athos_131]

Kushner’s Relationship With Trump Tested as Russia Accusations Swirl

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[Katiebee]

While campaigning, Merkel says Europeans can't 'completely' rely on US, others

#Resist

Congratulations Trump voters, you and Trump have diminished America. We are no longer great. What a bunch of fucking fools. You elected a smarmy, untrustworthy used car salesman.

[Athos_131]

The many ways Trump has tried to intervene in the Russia investigation, in one chart



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[Athos_131]

While campaigning, Merkel says Europeans can't 'completely' rely on US, others

#Resist

Congratulations Trump voters, you and Trump have diminished America. We are no longer great. What a bunch of fucking fools. You elected a smarmy, untrustworthy used car salesman.

#Resist

[joan1984]

Germany, and all independent and affiliate Nations each need to count on their own ability for their own day to day living.

They each need to provide for their own Defense from those who may wish them harm. Binding together, Nations often can better afford to buy the armaments and training necessary to cause pause by aggressors, and so it should be in their individual interests to do so.

Ms. Merkel is making Campaign speeches in beerhalls, promoting her domestic interests for voters, and her comments make sense to me.  Just as the United States maintains the ability to stand alone, as may be necessary, to defend our values, so should all other nations. Where is the problem with that?

Certainly, each Nation must allocate as they feel is needed for their own defense, and take the steps individually to insure their own welfare. Being reminded of their obligation under NATO, to contribute a MINIMUM of 2% of GDP, should surprise no one, and Germany in particular, has not maintained their obligation, and therefore puts into jeopardy the viability of full dependence upon such NATO membership, should they not be in good standing financially.

Being told, publicly, what they have ignored publicly, is necessary, refreshing even. As we review our own Military presence, we need to take a hard look at bases we staff in far flung locations, and assess the 'advantage' to the US, if any, toward maintaining such facilities.  Germany benefits from having NATO locations, which provide protection, as well as providing help to their economy.

Climate issues are another matter, and Europe needs to follow the beat of their own drummer in that regard. Whether the US actively participates in non-binding, non-treaty, past loose agreements is not up to Germany at all, but to us.

Where is the direct benefit to the United States, needs to be the measure.

While campaigning, Merkel says Europeans can't 'completely' rely on US, others

#Resist

Congratulations Trump voters, you and Trump have diminished America. We are no longer great. What a bunch of fucking fools. You elected a smarmy, untrustworthy used car salesman.

[Katiebee]

let me explain THIS to you, Joan.

Article 5 of the NATO agreement is that all member nations will come to the assistance of a member nation who has been attacked.

The ONLY nation to exercise that article has be the US. NATO responded and stood with us.

TRUMP WOULD NOT AFFIRM OR AGREE TO AFFIRM THAT ARTICLE WHEN HE MET WITH NATO!!!!!!!!!

So he in effect has fucked over all the other members. They stood with us, and we just said fuck you, we got ours.

JUST LIKE YOU FUCKING EGO-CENTRIC, CONSERVATIVES HAVE BEEN DOING FOR YEARS. YOU ARE ALL GIMMEE GIMMEE GIMMEE, YOU DON'T WANT TO PARTICIPATE AND PAY YOUR SHARE.

YOU ARE ALL WHAT YOU DECRY, WELFARE QUEENS. YOU WANT US TO GIVE YOU A FREE RIDE.

[Athos_131]

No, Germany doesn’t owe America ‘vast sums’ of money for NATO

#Resist

[Athos_131]

Trump’s claim that the U.S. pays the ‘lion’s share’ for NATO

In short, direct funding of NATO is allocated on a reasonable formula, with the United States paying just 22 percent of the cost. That’s hardly the “lion’s share.” But indirect funding is a different issue, with U.S. defense spending far exceeding the spending of other NATO members. That’s mainly because the United States is a world power, but it’s also clear that more of the burden for defense of Europe falls on American shoulders.

At the same time, American jawboning about this imbalance and Russian aggression have begun to change the calculation in European capitals so the transatlantic gap on defense spending already may be narrowing.

To sum up, Trump is simply wrong on direct funding and is imprecise and possibly out of date on indirect funding. It’s certainly false to say that most of the other NATO members pay “virtually nothing.” That results in a blended rating of between Two and Three Pinocchios.  We tipped toward Three because he shouldn’t make such statements if his campaign is not prepared to explain them.

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[Athos_131]

Trump isn’t a huge fan of NATO. But his complaints are off target.

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[Athos_131]

AP FACT CHECK: President Trump and his mistold NATO tales

TRUMP: “I will tell you, a big difference over the last year, money is actually starting to pour into NATO from countries that would not have been doing what they’re doing now had I not been elected, I can tell you that. Money is starting to pour in.” — speech to U.S. troops in Sicily on Saturday

TRUMP tweet: “Many NATO countries have agreed to step up payments considerably, as they should. Money is beginning to pour in.”

THE FACTS: First, no money is pouring in and countries do not pay the U.S. Nor do they pay NATO directly, apart from administrative expenses, which are not the issue.

The issue is how much each NATO member country spends on its own defense.

Although the president is right that many NATO countries have agreed to spend more on their military budgets, that is not a result of the NATO summit this past week at which Trump pressed them to do so. The countries agreed in 2014 to stop cutting their military spending and to start increasing it “toward” 2 percent of their gross domestic product by 2024.

That goal was set during the Obama administration and is less than an ironclad commitment.

___

TRUMP: “But 23 of the 28 member nations are still not paying what they should be paying and what they are supposed to be paying for their defense. This is not fair to the people and taxpayers of the United States and many of these nations owe massive amounts of money from past years, and not paying in those past years.” — remarks to NATO on Thursday

THE FACTS: Members of the alliance are not in arrears in their military spending. They are not in debt to the United States, or failing to meet a current standard, and Washington is not trying to collect anything, despite the president’s contention that they “owe massive amounts of money.” They merely committed in 2014 to work toward the goal of 2 percent of GDP by 2024.

#Resist

[Katiebee]

What is the difference between lying and propaganda?

Only a word.

[Katiebee]

Merkel's recent comment.

"The times when we could completely rely on others are, to an extent, over…"

Well done Trump. You have no idea what you have wrought.

[joan1984]

What exactly has Trump "wrought"? He put our 'partners' on notice to pay their fair share for Defense, and to stop carping and begging for US dollars for climate.  Seems like two good positions to me.

Merkel's recent comment.

"The times when we could completely rely on others are, to an extent, over…"

Well done Trump. You have no idea what you have wrought.

[Katiebee]

He broke trust with them. He reduced our standing in their eyes. He broke the pact. We are no longer the super power they trusted.

Way to fucking go.

Besides, the NATO members agreed in 2014 to increase their defense spending. To 2% GDP by 2024. Done under the Obama administration.

So what the fuck has the 12 year old done? Not a damn thing except to alienate our allies.

He has a big mouth, and can't do a single thing.

[Northwest]

This article is a very good read on the subject.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/05/trump-nato-germany/528429/

Trump, a very weak president who didn't even get a majority of the vote, and so far has proved incapable of even the relatively simple task of staffing his administration, is turning the entire Western world order on its ear. And it's a very strong possibility that he's doing it because his master in Moscow wants it done.

We've put a fucking traitor in the White House.

It's in Russia's interest to see the Western Alliance fall to pieces, and Trump is accomplishing it in short order. We're in a race against time between when we've gathered enough proof to have him tossed out of office, versus the amount of irreversible damage he can effect before we do so.

Right now...it's hard to say who's doing better.

[joan1984]

The agreement in 2014 was a restatement of their previous agreement, holding the 2% as a commitment, and only 5 of the 28 or whatever Member nations are spending at 2% today.

An ineffective attempt to get each nation to fully buy in to their own Defense, and with reserves as to armaments and troops to support their alliance, is not any good, if they don't do it.

Trump made good on what he ran on when elected, when he won the election and became our President, he confronted, cajoled and demanded compliance.

What does he get? Disrespect by Germany, in public statements. We expect the US Leftist Media to question all he does, after being so silent for the past 8 years, and I suppose we need to listen to this from some who underperformed on their commitments at NATO as well. Still, they must pay into their own defense, so as to be able to contribute to the collective defense.

It is good policy to make the demands, publicly, so long as they comply.

He broke trust with them. He reduced our standing in their eyes. He broke the pact. We are no longer the super power they trusted.

Way to fucking go.

Besides, the NATO members agreed in 2014 to increase their defense spending. To 2% GDP by 2024. Done under the Obama administration.

So what the fuck has the 12 year old done? Not a damn thing except to alienate our allies.

He has a big mouth, and can't do a single thing.

[Athos_131]

Trump made good on what he ran on when elected, when he won the election and became our President, he confronted, cajoled and demanded compliance.

Yeah, uh no.

Trump Promise Tracker

The good thing is anyone who can type google.com can check that's not true and find verifiable sources.

#Resist