The Trump thread: All things Donald

[_priapism]

[Lois]

25,000 bombs/drone/missile attacks just in the past year, with virtually all Muslim targets, in at least 5 Nations, plus a few others that are not yet on the list for Nations requiring more scrutiny when arriving in the United States...

Actually the targets were right-wing fundamentalist radical Muslims that were known to be terrorists or affiliated with terrorist groups.  Not all Muslims are terrorists.  Most are very nice people and are very much against terrorism.

[Katiebee]

Lois, "Because 'Murica!!!!"

Nuance is lost on a lot of people. So are detailed facts.

[_priapism]

I have several friends who spent their weekend obtaining release for refugees and foreign nationals, ALL with valid travel documents and visas, who were held by Homeland Security (Sieg Heil), without due process or access to counsel.

This is America folks.  This is not how we do things.  If you want to live in a totalitarian state, there are plenty of options, besides turning our country into one.

[Lois]

Agreed.  They can move to North Korea.

[joan1984]

25,000 bombs/drone/missile attacks just in the past year, with virtually all Muslim targets, in at least 5 Nations, plus a few others that are not yet on the list for Nations requiring more scrutiny when arriving in the United States...

Actually the targets were right-wing fundamentalist radical Muslims that were known to be terrorists or affiliated with terrorist groups.  Not all Muslims are terrorists.  Most are very nice people and are very much against terrorism.

Right Wing Muslim Terrorists... hmmm... and Lois, was there ANY collateral damage to innocent family members, or farm animals, or neighbors who were just simple lefties minding their own business, chewing khat or whatever they do when not slaughtering innocents? 

Kill 'em all, and let Allah sort them out?

[Lois]

All members of ISIS are right-wing because they are fundamentalist in their views of Islam.

[watcher1]

Part of living in a democracy such as ours is that we allow people from all over a chance to immigrate to the United States. We also check on the backgrounds of those coming from certain countries that are tied to terrorism. But the price we pay for living in our country is that there is always a chance someone will slip through the cracks and commit a terrorist act.  But to blatantly shut off immigration from countries in the chance there may be a terrorist slipping in is not what we stand for.  That and the last few terrorist acts that have occurred in the U.S. have been committed by home grown terrorists.

[Athos_131]

AP: Trump's voter fraud expert registered in 3 states

[Northwest]

AP: Trump's voter fraud expert registered in 3 states

I laughed.

[Athos_131]

SEAL, American Girl Die in First Trump-Era U.S. Military Raid

"Almost everything went wrong," the official said.

[Lois]

A perspective on the threat that Americans face from Muslims:

[Athos_131]

Fact check: White House claims 109 affected by travel ban - it's more like 90,000

[Athos_131]

DeVos questionnaire appears to include passages from uncited sources

[Lois]

A Facebook friend sent out a message last night:

3 votes short of blocking Betsy DeVos. If you live in ME, TN, AK, GA, UT, NC, WY, LA, KS, SC, or KY, call your Senators and ask them to block her nomination.

As you may know, Betsy DeVos is Trump's pick to head the Department of Education.  This is a woman who does not believe in public schools, and whose family has supported anti-gay legislation.  As for Betsy herself, she has declined to comment on her own leanings.  But it is fair to say that LGBT rights activists are concerned.

And then there is Trump's pick for Attorney General, Jeff Sessions.  Sessions once wanted to execute pot dealers.  Sessions is known to have used the n-word and joked about the Ku Klux Klan, saying he thought they were “okay, until he learned that they smoked marijuana.”

[Lois]

The countries affected by Trump's ban:

Iraq
Iran
Syria
Yemen
Sudan
Somalia
Libya

It is interesting that some countries are not on this list.  The 9-11 terrorist attack was carried out by citizens of Saudi Arabia (15), and the others were from the United Arab Emirates (2), Egypt, and Lebanon.  None of these countries are subject to the travel ban.

I think it is clear that the ban is not aimed at stopping terrorism, but at stopping Muslim immigration to the United States.  The list of banned nations is aimed at preventing refugees from finding safety.  It is important to remember that the United States also denied refuge to Jews fleeing Hitler, fearing there might be Nazi spies among them. 

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/us-government-turned-away-thousands-jewish-refugees-fearing-they-were-nazi-spies-180957324/

The above story shows that a NAZI spy was caught trying to infiltrate the US as a Jewish refugee and was caught. People forgot the part about him failing, and used it as an excuse to deny Jewish refugees entry.  How many people died because of this policy?  How many people will die because of Trump's anti-refugee policy?

Refugees are thoroughly vetted.  It usually takes more than two years to clear the vetting process and gain asylum in the United States:

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/01/i-went-through-americas-extreme-vetting-214703

Take away:  Just because you didn't know there was a vetting process does not mean it is not there.

[joan1984]

The seven countries are not specified in the Trump EO, never mentioned in fact, what is specified is the existing list of nations where suspicion of terror infiltration may originate, as described by President Obama.  The Trump EO simply defines when and specifics about the added scrutiny to be applied over the next few months.

So, the selection was made by President Obama, with good reason, and Trump is starting with this group of Nations as it is a good place to begin. Will further adjustments, added Nations make sense to address in addition to these seven? Perhaps, and those Nations may be addressed at a time decided, by legislation or by order as may be necessary.

[MissBarbara]

The countries affected by Trump's ban:

Iraq
Iran
Syria
Yemen
Sudan
Somalia
Libya

It is interesting that some countries are not on this list.  The 9-11 terrorist attack was carried out by citizens of Saudi Arabia (15), and the others were from the United Arab Emirates (2), Egypt, and Lebanon.  None of these countries are subject to the travel ban.

I think it is clear that the ban is not aimed at stopping terrorism, but at stopping Muslim immigration to the United States.  The list of banned nations is aimed at preventing refugees from finding safety.  It is important to remember that the United States also denied refuge to Jews fleeing Hitler, fearing there might be Nazi spies among them. 

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/us-government-turned-away-thousands-jewish-refugees-fearing-they-were-nazi-spies-180957324/

The above story shows that a NAZI spy was caught trying to infiltrate the US as a Jewish refugee and was caught. People forgot the part about him failing, and used it as an excuse to deny Jewish refugees entry.  How many people died because of this policy?  How many people will die because of Trump's anti-refugee policy?

Refugees are thoroughly vetted.  It usually takes more than two years to clear the vetting process and gain asylum in the United States:

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/01/i-went-through-americas-extreme-vetting-214703

Take away:  Just because you didn't know there was a vetting process does not mean it is not there.

I'll reiterate that I in no way support this ban, nor would I support any ban of this sort.

And I agree that the current vetting process is reasonably thorough enough as it now stands.

But if you believe that "the ban is not aimed at stopping terrorism, but at stopping Muslim immigration to the United States," then you completely contradict yourself in this post. If residents of the nations you cite (and note that Lebanon is only about 50% Muslim) are not being banned, then how is it a Muslim ban?

Further, if you look at the list of nations worldwide with the highest number of Muslim residents, you'll find that only one of them -- Iran -- on Trump's list. In fact, the combined total number of Muslims from those seven countries is less than the total number of Muslims in Indonesia, the country with the highest number of Muslims. And together they represent less than 10% of Muslims worldwide. So, how can it be viewed as a "Muslim ban" or as "stopping Muslim immigration to the United States"? 

Please also note that the ban affects ALL residents of the nations on the list. A Christian, or Catholic, or Jew, Hindu, or Agnostic, or Atheist from those countries is also banned. Again, how is that a "Muslim ban"?

Take away: I firmly believe in fighting injustice, via legislation, court orders, protests, or even, at times, more direct means. But I also believe that if one is to engage in a fight, one should first know whom one is fighting, and what one is fighting for.

[ChirpingGirl]

Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, and Somalia were bombed during the Obama administration’s final year.

I noticed you left that out so I mentioned it for you.

I think it is clear that the ban is not aimed at stopping terrorism, but at stopping Muslim immigration to the United States.

No one pays any attention to what's going on in Europe. More to the point leftists think it's wonderful. The entire continent is being overrun. Women and children are being raped. Crime has skyrocketed. Entire areas are no-go zones and are unrecognizable. It's almost entirely young men flooding in. If you want that here then please take the migrants into your home.

The list of banned nations is aimed at preventing refugees from finding safety.  It is important to remember that the United States also denied refuge to Jews fleeing Hitler, fearing there might be Nazi spies among them.

Obama admitted more than 12,000 Muslim refugees from Syria in Fiscal Year 2016, but fewer than 100 Christian refugees from the same country. Christians make up about 10 percent of the population in Syria, some 2.2 million people. Yet they only made up about one-half of one percent of Syrian refugees admitted that year.

[Athos_131]

Please also note that the ban affects ALL residents of the nations on the list. A Christian, or Catholic, or Jew, Hindu, or Agnostic, or Atheist from those countries is also banned. Again, how is that a "Muslim ban"?

Trump says US will prioritize Christian refugees