The Trump thread: All things Donald

[Lois]

  The President, with 25 others in his Administration and the US Government listening in, sought cooperation from Ukraine in the investigation underway at DOJ currently, regarding our 2016 Election, and events leading up to it, and continuing after the Election, and through the Transition, and post Transition.

Then there was no reason for Trump to get involved, but he was stupid and did.  He will suffer the consequences.

As for the Emoluments Clause, you also have to understand the original intent behind it, and for that you also have to read the Federalist Papers.  The word "emolument" has a broad meaning.

The prohibition against officers receiving a present or emolument is essentially an antibribery rule to prevent influence by a foreign power.  At the time of the Founding, it meant "profit," "benefit," or "advantage" of any kind.

When Trump asked for an investigation into a political opponent, he solicited a thing of value, otherwise known as an emolument.

[joan1984]

Thank you.

Article 1, Section 9, Clause 8:

No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.
----------------
The above is known as The Emoluments Clause, in our current discussions.
Also known as "The Foreign Emoluments Clause".

Ukraine isn't a Monarchy.  It hasn't been since 1918.

[psiberzerker]

Here:  http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Espionage&s=g

[Lois]

Not only did Trump break the law, but it is clear that the people around Trumo knew he broke the law.  Why else did they all try to cover it up?

[joan1984]

What is the exact law he broke, as you describe?
Is it a Federal Law? If so, maybe Toe knows the law number, detail?

I do not see any law broken by President Trump on the PhoneCall with Ukraine.

Is it a Ukraine law?
Did Ukraine miss out on some money?
Does Ukraine say any law was broken?

A pajama boy reported what he thought. That is his right. Should have been
the end of it, unless the Law Office of NSC elected to take the complaint
forward, noting which specific law was broken, by whom.

Not only did Trump break the law, but it is clear that the people around Trumo knew he broke the law.  Why else did they all try to cover it up?

[_priapism]

Not only did Trump break the law, but it is clear that the people around Trumo knew he broke the law.  Why else did they all try to cover it up?

Actually, a number of them immediately reported it.  Congress is hearing their testimony now.  On the other hand, fucking White House lawyer John Eisenberg, tried to have Trump’s calls classified and moved to a secure server the minute he heard about what had been done.

[joan1984]

Again, IF a law has been broken by the President, regarding the Ukraine call, exactly which law, specifically, please.

We all have had opportunity to read the call Transcript. We have heard many opinions, and should done, and coulda done comments by Democrat opposition House Members and Media Democrats as well, and as yet, NO ONE gives the specific LAW which President Trump supposedly has broken.

Perhaps those who are not authorized to speak on behalf of the US to Foreign Leaders at the Presidential level, may have said other things, or not said, and it was not their call to make, is now public due to a supposed whistleblower who is so far Anonymous, who did not listen in on the call first hand... the DIA Whistleblower Law was altered without fanfare, in August 2019, just so this could be written up and made public! Prior to this, only First Hand info could be reported with Whistle Blower protections... except this anonymous hater, this Democrat stooge...

WHAT LAW EXACTLY?

Some here will take any answer, wishing for any way to overturn the 2016 Election, and still wishing hag Hillary was in the White House today. Get this through your thick heads... Hillary Lost and will never be President.

What LAW?  Nothing specific, just 'feelings' about bully like language, etc etc.

The 'coup' to remove the President has been ongoing since before Trump was elected, and continues unimpeded at Kristens Board by Democrats, and other Haters, and anything will do, anything at all... All the charges without detail made so far have failed to gain traction, been found wanting, and excessive.

You define Biden as Trump's adversary. Biden has bragged about demanding a Foreign Nation FIRE a prosecutor who was investigating Hunter Biden, and there is Videotape, where 'ole Joe makes his demands part of a Speech, tells us all how he threatened to withhold funding from Ukraine, and they gave in to his demands. This is a part of the 2016 Ukraine Investigation, related to the Election here, and all that may entail.

Biden is overdue for accounting for himself. Ukraine is overdue, for accounting for itself and all its actions which are related to the Election, related to the FBI and FISA investigations.

President Trump stands by his words.

Not only did Trump break the law, but it is clear that the people around Trumo knew he broke the law.  Why else did they all try to cover it up?

Actually, a number of them immediately reported it.  Congress is hearing their testimony now.  On the other hand, fucking White House lawyer John Eisenberg, tried to have Trump’s calls classified and moved to a secure server the minute he heard about what had been done.

[psiberzerker]

"An Act to punish acts of interference with the foreign relations, and the foreign commerce of the United States, to punish espionage, and better to enforce the criminal laws of the United States, and for other purposes."

AKA the Espionage Act.  I told you he was a Bond villain.

[joan1984]

Go for it. With the death penalty, of course.

"An Act to punish acts of interference with the foreign relations, and the foreign commerce of the United States, to punish espionage, and better to enforce the criminal laws of the United States, and for other purposes."

AKA the Espionage Act.  I told you he was a Bond villain.

[psiberzerker]

For Impeachment?  They are.  Duh.  You keep asking the same rhetorical question:  "What crime has he committed?"  Espionage.  "What law has he broken?"  

Duh.  If you ask it differently, it doesn't change the answer.

[joan1984]

The President will not be charged with espionage, I am confident.

For Impeachment?  They are.  Duh.  You keep asking the same rhetorical question:  "What crime has he committed?"  Espionage.  "What law has he broken?"  

Duh.  If you ask it differently, it doesn't change the answer.

[psiberzerker]

   Well, as long as you're confident.  Why didn't you say so?   

[Lois]

The ABC's of impeachment:

Abuse of Power, check.
Betrayal (of his oath of office) check.
Cover up, check.

[Jed_]

The ABC's of impeachment:

Abuse of Power, check.
Betrayal (of his oath of office) check.
Cover up, check.

Dereliction of duty
Emoluments violations
Extortion of a head of state
Foreign interference in our elections (solicitation of and collusion with)

Wait, that’s 2 E’s.  Lois, we’ll need to start another list even before finishing this one.

[joan1984]

  So far, playing to the left, the base through leaks to friendly Media. No Law has been broken, just some holdover bureaucrats, deep state types, who don't like how the Boss talks to others, believe they are in charge of US Foreign Policy, since no one has challenged them before, from any Administration.

  Dems are eager for anything, seeking ways to avoid actually winning the 2020 election against President Trump. Media loves it and those who do not follow it all closely are willing to believe actual drama is occurring in Washington.

  Democrats, and Media, need to move quickly to take the air out of the room, before the DOJ reports are completed regarding Intelligence, Obama Admin folk and their involvement with the 2015 and 2016 efforts to derail Trump's election, then to negate it early in his Presidency, and even up to the present.

  Need a counter to what is expected soon, as Clapper, Brennan, and the rest f the culprits begin to sing, to save their hides...

  Once Democrats tire of using secret hearings, or actually find something they can explain as ILLEGAL, some LAW that was broken by the President, or once the DOJ reports begin to be made public and charges become real, the Dems may decide upon Impeachment, and bring charges via Judiciary Comm, which will be public.  Democrats still have the majority in the House, and will make full use of their powers, I am sure.

  Is still Theater Time, searching for something they think will 'stick' and not bite them all in the next election. Until then, drive down Trumps poll numbers and try to convince themselves it is all worth it.

  Trump 2020, KAG

[psiberzerker]

...deep state types...

All else fails, it's a secret government conspiracy, and not a legal prosecution of a career criminal.  The nice thing about that argument is you don't need proof, it's a secret coverup.  You don't have to assume a "Deep state" if you just look at a con man in a cheap suit, and expensive haircut for what he is.  He's selling you something, and you bought it.

The rest is just the Government, governing, as it should.  The only thing out of the ordinary is the snake-oil salesman selling panacea in the middle of it.

[joan1984]

Presumption of Innocence is what we are talking about.
Familiar?

One after another failed attempt to find fault with the President has failed.
Here again we have someone's 'opinion' about what 'should' or 'oughta' be said on he phone to a Foreign leader, by our President. The minions who leak phone call information to Media and Opposition Research House Members, who then lead to the Media, are the problem. They are not IN CHARGE.

[color] deep state types[/color]

All else fails, it's a secret government conspiracy, and not a legal prosecution of a career criminal.  The nice thing about that argument is you don't need proof, it's a secret coverup.  You don't have to assume a "Deep state" if you just look at a con man in a cheap suit, and expensive haircut for what he is.  He's selling you something, and you bought it.

The rest is just the Government, governing, as it should.  The only thing out of the ordinary is the snake-oil salesman selling panacea in the middle of it.

[psiberzerker]

Presumption of Innocence is what we are talking about.

In this thread.  Ironically enough, you're just talking about presumtion of guilt, when it came to brown people in the other.  Within the same minute.

So which is it, presumption of innocense, or presumption of guilt?  If I didn't know any better, I'd suspect a double standard.

[Jed_]

...deep state types...

You’re behind on terminology now.  These days he calls those patriots with integrity ‘Never Trumpers’.

[Lois]

 So far, .... No Law has been broken, ....

Yeah, right ....  I'm sure exactly what laws were broken will be determined shortly.  Read the findings for impeachment when it is completed.