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Does God exist?

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IdleBoast

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Reply #820 on: July 25, 2014, 08:29:56 PM
It seems to me that any religious faith has to be entered into of one's own freewill, or there's just nothing there. Put bluntly: if you think you need to have the forces of Government behind you to impose your religious agenda, your religion is shit.

There. I feel better now.


If your religion needs defending at all, then your "god" is neither omnipotent nor omniscient, both of which are required to qualify as creator of the Universe.





Offline Katiebee

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Reply #821 on: July 25, 2014, 09:21:20 PM
Unless it's a small God.

There are three kinds of people in the world. Those who can count, and those who can't.


Offline MissBarbara

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Reply #822 on: July 25, 2014, 09:42:52 PM

Unless it's a small God.



Or a God perceived by a small mind...


« Last Edit: July 25, 2014, 10:31:52 PM by MissBarbara »


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Offline watcher1

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Reply #823 on: July 25, 2014, 10:08:01 PM
Again I state, those who believe there is a God, cool. And those that don't believe there is a God, cool.  And those who may think there is a God but is not sure, cool too.

Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds.



Offline Lois

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Reply #825 on: July 30, 2014, 07:34:20 AM
Scientists discover that atheists might not exist, and that’s not a joke

Excellent article Toe.  I have often voiced the thought that viewing the world dualistically might be hard-wired into humans.  (This means viewing the world as consisting of both spiritual and materialistic parts.)

While logic tells me there is only a materialistic world (monism), I also tend to abstract a spiritualistic element in my view of the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualism



Offline Lois

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Reply #826 on: August 02, 2014, 08:23:44 AM
I think it is a hard wired evolutionary trait for humans, Lois.  It may be what it means "to be human."

It could be.  Or it could be my religious (spiritual) oriented upbringing.  I honestly think it needs more study.  Most atheists like myself grew up in religious households.  My mom even started her own church.



IdleBoast

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Reply #827 on: August 02, 2014, 11:13:11 AM
There is a sound evolutionary explanation for human religiosity, if anybody is interested...



IdleBoast

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Reply #828 on: August 02, 2014, 01:56:51 PM
Sorry, toe, but that's rubbish.

"Deep existential dread" has no evolutionary benefit whatsoever.

The hypothesis favoured by the majority of evolutionary biologists is simple survival.  Most things humans know, we know because we are taught. We did not learn them for ourselves, and, if we are honest with ourselves, we question very little of what we are taught, if it is taught with authority.  Think back to your school days, the teachers you learned most facts from (not skills) were the confident teachers, who spoke with authority, and could back that authority up.

Picture in pre-history; a party of hunter-gatherers come across a bush with pretty berries. The leader of the party tells the new members not to eat the berries because they are poisonous. The new members have a choice - they do not believe the leader, eat the berries and die, or they take the statement on faith.

Naturally, there is a selective pressure to make young people obey and believe older people.  Disbelievers get selected out by dying.

Early humans, though, knew many things without being able to explain them. To maintain authority, tribal leaders needed to provide some sort of explanation for what they know.

Why are the berries poisonous? Because the bush doesn't want you to eat them.
How do you know the bush doesn't want you to eat them? Because it told me, now shut up while I spear this deer!

Superstition rises when the same pattern-recognition skills that spot the leopard in the rocks starts to mistake correlation with causation: Grog did that weird dance before the hunt, and we all came back safely. So the dance helped us hunt. Somebody must have been pleased by the dance, but who...?

There's authority behind the assertion, and a logic of sorts, especially when the generation that remembers successful dance-free hunts, or what happened to the last person to actually eat those berries, has passed away without leaving a written record.  All that is left is the superstition, which grows from the oral tradition of a single stone-age tribe to a world-spanning religious tyranny,  just because so many humans never got the chance to grow out of the early unquestioning stage of life.

(If you read the parts of the various Abrahamic holy books have in common, large parts of it is sound survival advice wrapped up in theological dressings, like burying your faeces when you are on a hunt/at war, or not eating certain foods that can cause illness if not prepared properly (pigs at the time were riddled with diseases and parasites that crossed easily to humans.))



IdleBoast

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Reply #829 on: August 02, 2014, 02:28:38 PM
I have been in several life-threatening situations over the years, even actually close to death or permanent disability a couple of times, but the only time I have felt genuine, ongoing fear was at university, when I was called on to help run a union debate on "this house declares unconditional support for the PLO".

I found myself between two groups, Arab and israeli, in a fog of anger and testosterone...



Offline Katiebee

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Reply #830 on: August 02, 2014, 03:28:18 PM
They killed us a hundred years ago! Wipe the vermin out root, branch, and stem!

Unreasoned reactions like this, the desire for eye for an eye, let no slightly go unrevenged, massively dis-proportional responses are what keeps these feuds going.

There are three kinds of people in the world. Those who can count, and those who can't.


IdleBoast

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Reply #831 on: August 02, 2014, 05:22:12 PM
What none of them seem to realise, they all worship the same god!

There's a reason that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all referred to as the "Abrahamic religions".



Offline Katiebee

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Reply #832 on: August 02, 2014, 06:31:07 PM
Toe, if you weren't before, you are now going to Hell.

There are three kinds of people in the world. Those who can count, and those who can't.


IdleBoast

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Reply #833 on: August 02, 2014, 06:34:58 PM
Toe, if you weren't before, you are now going to Hell.

...or would be, if it existed.



Offline Das Giggity

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Reply #834 on: October 14, 2014, 02:09:59 AM
God... Lazay-Faire...Chaos theory.  Is it so hard to consider BOTH God AND science exist at the same time?  I myself am what I consider a Modern Catholic.  I dont think the Bible should be taken word for word, but for interpretation, and it is the lessons contained therein that are of matter.  I think too many people rely on God and their faith to handle their own problems. 

We are, advanced, intelligent creatures.  But I doubt we will ever truly figure out, "what started it all".  Big bang theory... Ok.  Matter is neither created... nor destroyed... so how did matter get here? 

Gods, create and destroy matter.  And until we can manage that, I cannot say we can rule out God... Allah... or any other diety of your choosing.



Offline jondalart

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Reply #835 on: October 15, 2014, 02:40:42 AM
Ah, someone bumped this again. In past KB life, I posted here a lot, and jousted with others in circles.
 
As I life moves on, I take full confidence in science to take care of the tangible, physical needs. But for my spiritual, emotional needs, my faith in God will always be preeminent.




IdleBoast

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Reply #836 on: October 15, 2014, 06:41:52 PM
Here's an interesting question:

If you are a believing christian, do you believe that Allah exists?




coacheric

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Reply #837 on: October 15, 2014, 06:54:13 PM
Here's an interesting question:

If you are a believing christian, do you believe that Allah exists?



From my raising, any good christian believes that their god is the only god and all others worship a false identity. Just my understandings over the years.



Offline Elizabeth

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Reply #838 on: October 17, 2014, 09:56:21 PM
Here's an interesting question:

If you are a believing christian, do you believe that Allah exists?



From my raising, any good christian believes that their god is the only god and all others worship a false identity. Just my understandings over the years.

TA-DA......And that's how religious wars start.......No Problem.
Love,
Liz




coacheric

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Reply #839 on: October 17, 2014, 10:09:03 PM
Here's an interesting question:

If you are a believing christian, do you believe that Allah exists?



From my raising, any good christian believes that their god is the only god and all others worship a false identity. Just my understandings over the years.

TA-DA......And that's how religious wars start.......No Problem.
Love,
Liz



And why this type of topic will never end nor will there ever be a true answer that all could agree to