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Does God exist?

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Offline herschel

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Reply #940 on: February 09, 2016, 06:47:58 PM
Every time I break my rule against discussing politics or religion, I end up regretting it.

Apologies to all the nice people, and thanks Miss B for straightening me out.



Offline MissBarbara

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Reply #941 on: February 09, 2016, 06:59:49 PM

Every time I break my rule against discussing politics or religion, I end up regretting it.

Apologies to all the nice people, and thanks Miss B for straightening me out.



No, not "straightening you out," just offering a differing point of view. As TinyDancer likes to say, "It's all good."

And the whole point of the 1408 threads is to discuss, among other things, "politics or religion." These threads work because people do, in fact, offer different points of view, in whatever manner they chose to offer them.

So, please don't take my response, which is just one girl's opinion, as a correction or admonition. Post what you want here, and don't care what others might think about what you post!






"Sometimes the best things in life are a hot girl and a cold beer."



Offline Katiebee

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Reply #942 on: February 12, 2016, 04:11:03 PM
So, please don't take my response, which is just one girl's opinion, as a correction or admonition. Post what you want here, and don't care what others might think about what you post!
This is Liberty Hall. You can spit on the mat and call the cat a bastard.

You can offer up your silly misconceptions and wrong ideas freely. People will respond with their own silly misconceptions and wrong ideas.

:D

Except l'm always right, and I have truth on my side!

There are three kinds of people in the world. Those who can count, and those who can't.


Offline watcher1

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Reply #943 on: February 12, 2016, 07:48:30 PM
Except l'm always right, and I have truth on my side!

Hmm....sends all of Katie's truths to fact checker..... ;D

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Offline Katiebee

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Reply #944 on: February 12, 2016, 08:03:18 PM
I own that too!

There are three kinds of people in the world. Those who can count, and those who can't.


Offline herschel

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Reply #945 on: February 12, 2016, 08:05:24 PM
Oh, I know full well there are women who are always right. I lived with one of them for years. And she agrees with me, by the way, that the idea of god is a figment of the human mind. Propagated by men, of course, which should make you suspicious right off.

She also says she's going to win the lottery, but that hasn't happened yet. Of course you can't expect to win with your first ticket, so you have to keep buying until your number comes up.




Offline watcher1

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Reply #946 on: February 12, 2016, 11:23:27 PM
I own that too!

Checks fact checker and finds Katie is right..... 8)

Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds.


Offline tc

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Reply #947 on: March 06, 2016, 07:17:17 PM
*picture depicting minor removed.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2016, 04:45:24 AM by toeinh2o »



Offline herschel

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Reply #948 on: March 06, 2016, 10:17:46 PM
I apologize on behalf of my fellow degenerates and perverts to any of our christian friends who may be offended by this beautiful and inspiring work of imagination. We know that Jesus, in his mythical embodiment if not his actual physical existence, loves all the little children of the world -- red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight.

I myself embrace many of the christian moral precepts. It's the dogma and the church's dark side that I have reservations about.

I especially endorse his commandment that we should love one another. As Hunter S. Thompson would say, Selah.



Offline tc

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Reply #949 on: March 08, 2016, 07:16:20 AM
I forgot the disclaimer so sorry. It's telling how a simple picture invokes such strange behavior when truth and indoctrination fight for dominance. Even bringing out the cuckold as pretense for chivalry. There is no magic sky God to run from but this shows how our imagination can be our own worst enemy.



Offline herschel

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Reply #950 on: March 08, 2016, 08:31:51 AM
In our great land, the constitution says we are free to believe in whichever of the many contesting sky gods we choose, but in the opinion of the supreme court we are not free to believe that there is no sky god whatsoever, because of the illogic of the situation: i.e. if the law explicitly contemplates a sky god of indefinite specification, then it must implicitly exclude our unbelief. For example, if we are the IRS, we are excluded from disbelieving in the pernicious confabulations of a cynical charlatan with a mighty cult of gullible sheep.

Ambrose Bierce, where are you when we need you?
« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 08:40:34 AM by herschel45 »



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Reply #951 on: March 11, 2016, 10:13:44 PM
I myself embrace many of the christian moral precepts.

All of which pre-date both christianity and judaism by millennia.




Offline herschel

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Reply #952 on: March 12, 2016, 04:51:35 AM
IB raises an interesting, really a crucial point. I've read a bit of pre-history, going back about 10,000 years before the so-called Christian era, addressing the transition from nomadic and hunter-gatherer cultures to the new-fangled invention of agriculture.

Nomadic cultures of course still thrive in some parts of the world, although to a lesser extent than when they covered much broader territories. Hunter-gatherer cultures are not extinct, but they are an infinitesimal fraction of what they were before the inventions of steel and gunpowder. Even agricultural life-styles of ancient times are now greatly reduced from the once widespread peasant farming mode of life to now the industrial scale megafarms.

The concept of personal property was (probably still is, in some places) virtually absent among the nomads and hunter-gatherers. They did have the concept of tribal territories, which they defended against other tribes, but individuals in their tribes did not own plots of land, for instance.

The nomads depended on their herds of (semi)domesticated livestock for their sustenance. As far as my understanding goes, nomads did regard their animals as private possessions, whether at the personal or family or clan level. I'd be curious to know when the practice of branding animals began.

Our modern problems really started with agricultural settlements, when farmers began to think of 'this land' being 'my land'.

The major preoccupation of the human is of course feeding one's family.

Hunter-gatherers lived in paradise when nuts and berries, wild fruits, root vegetables, fish and game were adequate or abundant. Food was shared within the entire settlement. In good times, everyone prospered. In bad times, everyone suffered. It was all share and share alike. Today, we would call that socialism or communism.

Farmers, on the other hand, soon learned to adjust to good harvests and bad. Good harvests, producing more than the farmer needed for his family, led to the setting aside of surplus grains and legumes, whatever could be dried and stored, to plant next year's crop and to see his family through the bad seasons.

Surplus storage led on to trading, and favored the development of cities, where specialized labor could develop, and an elite class could form.

During the bad times, the farmer knew he would have to enforce short rations on the entire family. This was a concept entirely unthinkable to the hunter-gatherer. If there was food, the hunter-gatherer ate it now, sharing it within his village or clan. But the farmer would starve himself and his family before he would dig into next year's seed.

Thus a much more highly elaborated system of authority, rules, laws became necessary within agricultural societies.

I won't try to trace out all the permutations these considerations entailed, but farming is where we turned the corner from Loving and Sharing to Hoarding, Property Rights and Class Division.

This is my understanding, subject to correction by any legitimate pre-historian.



Offline tc

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Reply #953 on: March 12, 2016, 06:07:08 AM
Reality Meditation


How a Land High in the Western Himalayas Can Help Us Understand The Crisis of The Modern World
http://www.filmsforaction.org/watch/how-a-land-high-in-the-western-himalayas-can-help-us-understand-the-crisis-of-the-modern-world/

We're Living in a Racial Caste System Designed to Divide Us, Benefiting No One But the 1%
http://www.filmsforaction.org/watch/race-baiting-101/

What Banks Don't Want You to Know about the Greek crisis
http://www.filmsforaction.org/watch/what-banks-dont-want-you-to-know-about-the-greek-crisis/

AINA: That Which Feeds Us (2015)
http://www.filmsforaction.org/watch/aina-that-which-feeds-us/

Chögyam Trungpa - Spirituality & the now


I can go further but this is the gist, the archeology on this subject, hope it helps.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2016, 06:11:37 AM by tc »



Offline Katiebee

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Reply #954 on: March 12, 2016, 06:57:40 AM
IB raises an interesting, really a crucial point. I've read a bit of pre-history, going back about 10,000 years before the so-called Christian era, addressing the transition from nomadic and hunter-gatherer cultures to the new-fangled invention of agriculture.
I took my degree in Anthropology, so I do have some insight into this.

You are correct to a certain point.

Hunter-gatherers by necessity were small extended family groups, that over time expand to include other kin groups. The land determines how large a group can exist in one spot and how much range a group requires to sustain existence. Add in the aquatic borders and it often changes development into fisheries rather than agrarian society.

Hunter-gatherers are different from nomadic herding societies. Herders have a different range requirement, often larger in size depending upon the livestock and the eco-system.

Agro societies tend to grow to more stable and larger entities because the capability to feed larger groups from surpluses exist.

However, in all three types the same pressures exist. The Hunter-gatherer tends to remain small and loosely organized. It remains a relatively primitive society, regardless of the religious backing that grows up to regulate human intercourse.

Nomadic societies coalesce into larger groups and develop more complex governing activities, resulting in septs, clans, and tribes. Politically they form the first active ad-hoc  governments, though it is mostly charismatic leadership that prevails bolstered by competence in specific fields of endeavor, such as the ability to get along and convenience others to follow ones decisions for animal husbandry, and migration, or combat, or hunting.

Fisheries are the next most complex but are limited to those areas where fishing is possible, seaside. Again these develop along the lines of nomadic herding societies for the same reasons, the primary activities require the men to be absent from the family for extended periods of time.

Agro societies are tied to smaller areas of land. Because growing crops allows a surplus of food for a relatively small effort from a small area, the families tend to group permanently in a single group. The group is concerned primarily with water access, protection of the land and family. This means that while the pressures upon the society are similar to the other types they are concentrated and more complex governmental systems are required to keep the peace and ensure uninterrupted supply of food for unrelated, or tenuously related groups using the same general area and resources.

Since the groups cannot easily separate if there is a feud as a hunter-gather or nomadic herder group can, they must have formal, regularized laws and entities to enforce those laws. Since the distribution of water is important, and since larger groups mean storage, defense and regulation and distribution of resources is paramount.

It's not a matter of greed, as it is of fair distribution of wealth. The hunter-gather has no wealth that isn't obtained by the efforts of all. The nomad has a more structured distribution of labor, but rewards individuals for contributions that enhance the survival of the primary groups.

Agro societies can afford to support non-contributing members, the old, the infirm, the incompetent. The richer the nomad society the more they can do this as well. However because agro societies can build upon regular expected results, charismatic leadership is less important, and the tolerance for non-contributors is enhanced to high levels. Because agro wealth is not as easily transportable it is subject to raiding and theft from others.

Enter organized war. The nomads and agro societies are opposed to each other in competition for land resources, and material wealth. The mobility of the nomads is offset by fortifications and an established trained and permanently standing military of the agro society.

While the nomads may have a great captain arise to gather the tribes together, they fall apart upon his death.

Not so with agro societies. They develop a regular succession of leadership to ensure the continuation of laws and governance that is vital to the group survival. Enter the divine right of kings. Religion is the proto-governemental form. What better way to enforce rules and regulations than by a deity who is controlling the environment and who must be appeased in order to ensure good weather and good crops.

Once the God-king connection is made, then nations arise from the city states.

This is the simple version.
 

« Last Edit: March 12, 2016, 07:00:13 AM by Katiebee »

There are three kinds of people in the world. Those who can count, and those who can't.


Offline herschel

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Reply #955 on: March 12, 2016, 07:17:43 AM
TC, I think if I had not had the standard western white man's allotment of a double bourbon at arm's reach, your videos would have brought me to tears.



Offline tc

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Reply #956 on: March 12, 2016, 07:42:44 AM
Katiebee is correct I should have said Anthropology.


I know it's sad but 'herschel45' you need something else to occupy your mind, something that will turn your lips up, furrow the brow, and engage you completely, have fun.




Tony Parsons: Wonderfully Gloriously Meaningless

Dzogchen Immediate Recognition/Shamatha Meditation: Training the Mind
Dzogchen Teaching Mexico Jackson Peterson Part 1
Dzogchen Teaching Mexico Jackson Peterson Part 2
Dzogchen Teaching Mexico Jackson Peterson Part 3
Dzogchen Teaching Mexico Jackson Peterson Part 4
Dzogchen Teaching Mexico Jackson Peterson Part 5


liberation unleashed
http://liberationunleashed.com/




Offline herschel

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Reply #957 on: March 12, 2016, 09:33:32 AM
Well actually I think I must enjoy being sad, because I've been that way since childhood, but in spite of all that I think I've had a good life, almost wonderful in fact. Because, I suppose, I am not one of the downtrodden. Never rich, never poor, always had enough, never too much or too little.

I am astonished at how Katie can pull together so much perspective on a big subject on short notice, reduce it to writing and get it posted to the world. Also at how TC can pull together videos on point at the drop of a hat. I came here for porn, and I get that plus a liberal education. For all my imprecations against civilization, I must say I am hooked on the internet.



Offline tc

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Reply #958 on: March 12, 2016, 04:59:06 PM


Katiebee is fabulous and a force to be reckoned with.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2016, 05:02:36 PM by tc »



Offline insatiable

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Reply #959 on: March 12, 2016, 08:16:18 PM

I took my degree in Anthropology, so I do have some insight into this.

And I took my degree in Electrical, I can only offer to shock people, literally.  :-[

Something about something by someone important.