Does God exist?

[MissBarbara]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by, "I think it's a bit hypocritical to act differently simply because you "believe" in "something." A great many people act, or at least try to act, for the betterment of others, and society at large, inspired by their religious beliefs. They're "acting differently" by volunteering, working at soup kitchens, fighting for social justice, and on and on.

Then again, I probably misunderstood what you meant...

I do support the people that you are talking about.
The ones that are inspired by their believes.

I am not a complete jerk, I try to do good things in life,
but not because some book tells me that I am going to heaven if I do so.

On a funny note; I prefer Hell anyway...
I mean...
c'mon....
check out the citizen's list of hell....

Jimmy Hendrix, Jim Morrison, Cliff Burton, Elvis, etc
a bunch of strippers, some crazy drunks, couple porn actors....

To say it with AC/DC ; Hell ain't a bad place to be.

I was referring to people who wouldn't do "good" things if they would find out that there is no God at all.

The people that need a "God" to do something for others.

I know it's a fine line that I am trying to walk.
But I think that most religious people wouldn't need their religion to lend a helping hand, they simply do it because they are good people.

Thanks for taking the time to explain.

I in no way believe that all those who do good base their actions on religious beliefs; I believe that non-believers (or atheists or agnostics or whatevers) do as much good as believers; and I join you condemning religious hypocrisy wherever it rears its ugly head.

I had to look this up, but I knew there was a 70s song called "Rock & Roll" heaven, and it's list of residents of the celestial spheres include Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Otis Redding, and Jim Morrison, among many others. I could definitely dig that place!

[ChirpingGirl]

There is no god an we are his prophets.

[ChirpingGirl]

My wife once told me it doesn't matter if there's no god, one day we'll die and every atom and molecule of our bodies will be absorbed into the earth, and then one day spread out among the universe and then one day we'll be everywhere. And then one day everything will be one.

[MissBarbara]

Nothing ever said in an Internet forum makes God any more, or less likely, to exist.  You have to question why the Supreme Being, who has been around for at least 14.7 Billion years that we know about, would chose to focus on the Mesopotamia region, approximately 6,000 years ago, to manifest himself to a bunch of goat herders.

On the one hand, nothing said by anyone, anywhere, at any time makes God any more, or less, likely to exist.

On the other hand, what makes you so sure that God (if he exists) solely chose this particular place and time?

[Lois]

I am an atheist.  I came to that conclusion on my own, borne from my own experiences.  I expect that everyone comes to their beliefs in much the same way.  Accordingly, it is a deeply personal thing.  I respect that.

Now I might tease you about having an "invisible freind", but it is just teasing.  It really is none of my business if you have one. 

I suppose the only thing that really gets me upset is when people try to impose their religious beliefs on others.

[Katiebee]

Welcome to this particular petri dish.

[watcher1]

"I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's." –Mark Twain

"The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also." –Mark Twain

[Athos_131]

I suppose the only thing that really gets me upset is when people try to impose their religious beliefs on others.

Does this mean I shouldn't impose my force lightning on people?

[joe_and_michelle]

I suppose the only thing that really gets me upset is when people try to impose their religious beliefs on others.

I agree.   I'm a non-believer, as was my wife.   We don't look down upon our church going friends.    Our friends don't look down on us.   Though we've had encounters.  The worst was when we were attending friends party, as were many of their church friends.   Michelle and I struck up a conversation with another couple.    The wife asked how many kids we had.  (cringe)       Michelle explained nicely that we had tried for years with no success.      The woman said, "Well, God has his reason."   I stated we didn't believe in God.    Appalled, she said, "Well that is probably His reason, perhaps you would like to join our church and your chances may improve."
The husband said to his wife, just loud enough for only the four of us to hear, "You are such a cunt sometimes."   
Michelle said, "I was going to respond less harshly, but yeah, I'll go with that too."

[Elizabeth]

 when people try to impose their religious beliefs on others.

LOL....wow sounds a lot like a certain lady in Kentucky who is imposing her beliefs on just about everyone and everything.

Love,
Liz

[Frank Taillefer]

Thanks for taking the time to explain.

I in no way believe that all those who do good base their actions on religious beliefs; I believe that non-believers (or atheists or agnostics or whatevers) do as much good as believers; and I join you condemning religious hypocrisy wherever it rears its ugly head.

I had to look this up, but I knew there was a 70s song called "Rock & Roll" heaven, and it's list of residents of the celestial spheres include Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Otis Redding, and Jim Morrison, among many others. I could definitely dig that place!

See....
Hell ain't that bad 

Back on topic.

I don't think that doing good is an exclusive religious thing.
It's, I hope, human nature.
Religion just awards it with going to heaven.

I suppose the only thing that really gets me upset is when people try to impose their religious beliefs on others.

That's why I don't like religious based laws.
The lack of gay rights for instance.

Religious people tell us that gay's can't marry.
If they run out of excuses they say that it's in the bible.

So?

I don't believe in the bible.
But still I have to follow biblical laws.

My reasoning is simple, too simple maybe.

Being Gay is not a christian thing to do.
So Christians can't be, technically speaking, gay.
This would go against their own religion.

So if Christians can't be gay, then why do they need a law saying that it is bad to be gay? They can't be gay to begin with?

They do it to save others?
But those other's don't believe in that book.
So what's the point?

[watcher1]

I had to look this up, but I knew there was a 70s song called "Rock & Roll" heaven, and it's list of residents of the celestial spheres include Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Otis Redding, and Jim Morrison, among many others. I could definitely dig that place!

Can you believe the music that would be playing there?  Now that is what I would call heaven.

[MissBarbara]

I suppose the only thing that really gets me upset is when people try to impose their religious beliefs on others.

That's why I don't like religious based laws.
The lack of gay rights for instance.

Religious people tell us that gay's can't marry.
If they run out of excuses they say that it's in the bible.

So?

I don't believe in the bible.
But still I have to follow biblical laws.

My reasoning is simple, too simple maybe.

Being Gay is not a christian thing to do.
So Christians can't be, technically speaking, gay.
This would go against their own religion.

So if Christians can't be gay, then why do they need a law saying that it is bad to be gay? They can't be gay to begin with?

They do it to save others?
But those other's don't believe in that book.
So what's the point?

To my mind the Bible contains moral guidelines, which one is free to follow, or not, as one wishes. If one is inspired by those moral guidelines to produce just laws that benefit or protect others, that's great. And if simple humanity, without the slightest trace of religious inspiration, inspires one to produce just laws that benefit or protect others, that's great, too.

I don't like religious-based law, either. The good news, at least here in the U.S. today, is that you are never required to follow religious-based or Bible-based law. Never.

A perfect example is that country clerk in Kentucky. She tried to enforce religious-based law, and she failed miserably. She was tossed in jail and, were in not for her tenure of office, she would have been summarily fired. And if she tries to reject marriage licenses to same-sex couples again, she'll be tossed back in jail.

She failed. And though her supporters view her as something of a martyr for their cause, the whole case only served to further inspire rejection of her cause, and to rally support for the right of same-sex couples to wed, as guaranteed by the Supreme Court decision.

[Athos_131]

7 Moments in the Bible When Jesus Acted Very Un-Jesus-Like

[RopeFiend]

WHICH god?   

I managed to stump the Google 'image search' again.     The young gal I work with is an adherent of Ganesh.  I decided this evening to see if I could get her a T-shirt made with Dumbo in his/her Ganesh aspect, so I went looking for artwork.  Nada.  NOTHING.  Apparently I'm the first person to mentally combine the two.

 

Looks like a logical combinnation to ME, anyways! 

[death2uall]

To my mind the Bible contains moral guidelines, which one is free to follow, or not, as one wishes. If one is inspired by those moral guidelines to produce just laws that benefit or protect others, that's great.

I would be really interested in which parts of the Big Book of Jewish Myth you find contain "moral guidelines."

Is it the parts that condone rape (Judges 21:10-24, Numbers 31:7-18, Deuteronomy 20: 10-14, Deuteronomy 22: 23-24, 2 Samuel 12:11-14, Deuteronomy 21:10-14)

... to the extent that it contains laws defining how to get away with it? (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)

Is it the part that condones permanent sex slavery for women?  (Exodus 21:7-11)

Or maybe it's the part that says nonbelievers should be killed (2 Chronicles 15:12-13), that followers of other religions need to die (Deuteronomy 13:7-12), or that if one resident of a town worships another god, the entire town should be killed?  (Deuteronomy 13:13-19)

Do you really believe that women who aren't virgins on their wedding night need to die (Deuteronomy  22:20-21), and that the same is true for followers of other religions (Deuteronomy 17:2-5), infidels and gays (Romans 1:24-32), and anybody who works on Saturday (Exodus 31:12-15) ?

Honestly, I could go on, and on, and on, and on. But I don't think I need to. Anybody who has ever bothered to actually read the Big Book of Jewish Myth already knows that, rather than being a set of "moral guidelines," it's the rulebook of a culture of homophobic, gynophobic, murderous monsters.

[Frank Taillefer]

A perfect example is that country clerk in Kentucky. She tried to enforce religious-based law, and she failed miserably. She was tossed in jail and, were in not for her tenure of office, she would have been summarily fired. And if she tries to reject marriage licenses to same-sex couples again, she'll be tossed back in jail.

She failed. And though her supporters view her as something of a martyr for their cause, the whole case only served to further inspire rejection of her cause, and to rally support for the right of same-sex couples to wed, as guaranteed by the Supreme Court decision.

That's awesome!

It's funny though how things work.
We are now slowly getting to the worst time of year, at least for me.

Christmas.

I don't do Christmas.
I don't believe, so why would I want to celebrate Jesus's birthday?
(Not to mention that it's not even his birthday etc.etc.)

The strange thing is that around me everybody is celebrating.
A friend of mine, die-hard Atheist, celebrates Christmas hard-core.
He even goes to church on Christmas Eve?

I try to understand it, but I simply don't.

My vision would be;

Zappa: Dumb all over.

[ChirpingGirl]

A perfect example is that country clerk in Kentucky. She tried to enforce religious-based law, and she failed miserably. She was tossed in jail and, were in not for her tenure of office, she would have been summarily fired. And if she tries to reject marriage licenses to same-sex couples again, she'll be tossed back in jail.

She failed. And though her supporters view her as something of a martyr for their cause, the whole case only served to further inspire rejection of her cause, and to rally support for the right of same-sex couples to wed, as guaranteed by the Supreme Court decision.

That's awesome!

It's funny though how things work.
We are now slowly getting to the worst time of year, at least for me.

Christmas.

I don't do Christmas.
I don't believe, so why would I want to celebrate Jesus's birthday?
(Not to mention that it's not even his birthday etc.etc.)

The strange thing is that around me everybody is celebrating.
A friend of mine, die-hard Atheist, celebrates Christmas hard-core.
He even goes to church on Christmas Eve?

I try to understand it, but I simply don't.

My vision would be;

Zappa: Dumb all over.

I hate Christmas. Everyone loves it but me. None of us are even Christians.

I hate it. Hate it. Hate it.

The only reason I wake up that day is to watch the bulls Christmas day game.

[MissBarbara]

To my mind the Bible contains moral guidelines, which one is free to follow, or not, as one wishes. If one is inspired by those moral guidelines to produce just laws that benefit or protect others, that's great.

I would be really interested in which parts of the Big Book of Jewish Myth you find contain "moral guidelines."

Is it the parts that condone rape (Judges 21:10-24, Numbers 31:7-18, Deuteronomy 20: 10-14, Deuteronomy 22: 23-24, 2 Samuel 12:11-14, Deuteronomy 21:10-14)

... to the extent that it contains laws defining how to get away with it? (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)

Is it the part that condones permanent sex slavery for women?  (Exodus 21:7-11)

Or maybe it's the part that says nonbelievers should be killed (2 Chronicles 15:12-13), that followers of other religions need to die (Deuteronomy 13:7-12), or that if one resident of a town worships another god, the entire town should be killed?  (Deuteronomy 13:13-19)

Do you really believe that women who aren't virgins on their wedding night need to die (Deuteronomy  22:20-21), and that the same is true for followers of other religions (Deuteronomy 17:2-5), infidels and gays (Romans 1:24-32), and anybody who works on Saturday (Exodus 31:12-15) ?

Honestly, I could go on, and on, and on, and on. But I don't think I need to. Anybody who has ever bothered to actually read the Big Book of Jewish Myth already knows that, rather than being a set of "moral guidelines," it's the rulebook of a culture of homophobic, gynophobic, murderous monsters.

No, you really don't need to go on.

And you're right: If you read the Bible as a "rulebook," taking each and every word literally, then it's worst than pointless, it's contradictory, and it's grossly hypocritical.

But there are some cool stories. One of my favorites is the story of Jael in the Book of Judges. In order to overthrow an evil king, Jael invites him into her tent and gets him drunk, and when he falls asleep, she picks up a mallet and a tent peg, and pounds the peg through his skull and into the ground.

(Fun fact: Jael acted at the behest of Deborah, who worked with the leader of the Israelites at that time, whose name was...Barack.)

I don't see the Bible as a rulebook, I don't take it literally, and I don't believe that it should be followed to the letter. And neither do most who follow Bible-based religions. I see it, instead, as a means for me to help improve myself as a person, given who I am and given the circumstances in which I live and work. And -- most important -- as an inspiration to help others, especially those less fortunate than I.

[Lois]

I dated a Christian once.  He explained to me that the rules in the old Testament no longer held much sway.  He believed in the new Testament of Christ.