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Does God exist?

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Offline Lostforkate

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Reply #700 on: August 03, 2013, 01:01:03 PM
Back to your question Toe, I do not identify with any Christen sect, but I will share some of doctrinal beliefs. For me, it is all part of the journey, and my adherence to doctrines has changed over time.

I struggle with putting too much here, as I face my struggles with purity, puts me in a type of hypocrisy, posting about faith on a sex board. It is bizarre, as I have felt the liberty to this drifting in my life. It has exposes what I held as truth, and has allowed me to see new perspectives which I could have never understood any other way. It has led me to be way less judgmental, as I have learned, "who am I judge?".  

Concerning the bible, I to hold to a verbal, plenary inspiration of scripture, in which the original documents are 100% inspired, yet no any actual originals exist, but copies.  

I hold a Dispensationalist view of the Bible and its covenants. Again, there are many different dispensational views. To quickly summarize, it means that God has dealt differently with people over time, and the relationship in has varied, but God, himself has not varied.

Here is a link explaining a Dispensationalist view. In this link, it is being contrasted against Reformed Christian Doctrines (John Calvin influence). http://www.xenos.org/essays/covdisp.htm

To this end, Christianity is a faith that can transcend different cultures, and will always be present despite pressure from atheists, and evolutionary teaching. Look at the various pressure Judea-Christianity has endured over time.

Toe, I commend for your research and understanding of various histories. I see there are many different threads of Christian history, and each side of different doctrinal debates can point to different early church fathers for support.

Toe, when I read many of your posts, I get a feeling you are an atheist, yet you say you hold to the Eastern Orthodox faith in another. In one post, you call God, a Santa in the sky. Please correct me if I am mistaken, but how can you be both? Perhaps it just complicated and I am missing a point, please explain.  

« Last Edit: August 03, 2013, 01:04:28 PM by Lostforkate »



Offline Elizabeth

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Reply #701 on: August 03, 2013, 02:52:33 PM
I'm Russian Orthodox, but I reject the "Pope" as the end all to everything.

Love,
Liz



Offline Elizabeth

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Reply #702 on: August 03, 2013, 04:47:07 PM
Wait.....OMG Toe.!!!!!
You realize that you just told Tom Cruise that The Mothership won't be coming for him.
I hope he can take the news without breaking down.

Love,
Liz



Offline Elizabeth

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Reply #703 on: August 03, 2013, 04:59:55 PM
Wait.....OMG Toe.!!!!!
You realize that you just told Tom Cruise that The Mothership won't be coming for him.
I hope he can take the news without breaking down.

Love,
Liz


The Mothership was here yesterday, and left already.  One bag limit.   :emot_laughing:

Thats "evil".


Love,
Liz
 :emot_laughing:



Offline Lostforkate

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Reply #704 on: August 03, 2013, 08:30:30 PM
Toe and Liz, is that you can up with? Unicorns and Tom Cruise reference?

Oh well

And Toe, did you expect to see an afterlife? Your brain cells weren't dead.

Honestly though, I am glad your alive, and the doctors obviously did the right thing.

Being offended about santa in the sky reference? No. Dissappointed? Yes.

I am more offended about the nazi posts, when Hitler feigned an interest in christianity too further his political career.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2013, 08:42:00 PM by Lostforkate »



Offline Fish

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Reply #705 on: August 03, 2013, 10:54:30 PM
There were quite a few Nazis who were Christians, it wasn't just Hitler doing it for power. I'm not saying all Nazis were Christian, or all Christians are Nazis, but the evil and strong often use the Christian god to manipulate the weak. The same can be said of any watchful being that can never be defeated, who loves the loyal and faithful followers... Allah, Joseph Smith, Vishnu, Dalai Lama, Jim Jones...

...if god is real, he/she/it will have quite a bit of explaining to do besides one book. The world was poorly designed (at least if you account for man), so the whole infallibility thing seems silly, and the violence done in the name of any god debunks the whole benevolence claim.

Don't sweat the petty stuff, pet the sweaty stuff.


Offline Fish

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Reply #706 on: August 04, 2013, 12:22:53 AM
I should have put "If the world was designed, it was poorly designed."

One need not know the purpose- if the purported purpose is anything but sustained chaos and tension, then the design was shit. If the design was chaos and tension, then the design and the designer are both shit.

Don't sweat the petty stuff, pet the sweaty stuff.


Offline Lostforkate

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Reply #707 on: August 04, 2013, 12:42:03 AM
I agree with what you say Fish concerning biblical inspiration.

I want to Deify Jesus. I like his teachings, and can throw out the rest of bible out as far as I am concerned. Jesus answers my prayers. Does that mean I need to believe the bible as inspired in some sense? Maybe not? It is ironic how many OT prophecies he fulfilled.

I get in a bitchy mood once in a while, and let my buttons get pushed.

I would prefer the natural inspiration method, in which the Bible was written by men of great spiritual understanding for their time period. This makes more sense to me from a spiritual perspective.

I also like the dispensation view, because it can de-emphasize the old testament. Though can still find meaning in the old testament.

I also like the writing of Khalil Gibran, who was raised with Maronite Christian influences.  But I know he is not God.

"Wisdom ceases to be wisdom when it becomes too proud to weep, too grave to laugh, and too selfish to seek other than itself" - Khalil Gibran
« Last Edit: August 04, 2013, 12:47:27 AM by Lostforkate »



Offline Elizabeth

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Reply #708 on: August 04, 2013, 02:10:41 AM
I agree with what you say Fish concerning biblical inspiration.


I would prefer the natural inspiration method, in which the Bible was written by men of great spiritual understanding for their time period. This makes more sense to me from a spiritual perspective.


Again, the Orthodox tradition is that the Bible was written by men, and it contains errors.




11 of them to be exact.
And it was written from a male perspective.

Love,
Liz



Offline Katiebee

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Reply #709 on: August 04, 2013, 06:29:43 AM
Which is why the Book of Mary Magdalene isn't in the Bible.

There are three kinds of people in the world. Those who can count, and those who can't.


Offline Fish

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Reply #710 on: August 04, 2013, 08:19:13 AM
I should have put "If the world was designed, it was poorly designed."

One need not know the purpose- if the purported purpose is anything but sustained chaos and tension, then the design was shit. If the design was chaos and tension, then the design and the designer are both shit.

You're still judging using human standards.

And what other standards could a human be expected to use?

It doesn't seem unreasonable for one to have a different opinion on the talent level behind the potential design of existence: there is TONS of astoundingly beautiful symmetry in the universe... only, when one considers that human existence wasn't an accident, then you might understand where I would find dispute in the talent level behind the design.

I think that it was all either some non-sentient creative force, or some sentient and completely uncaring force. How in the world would you explain misery and genocide otherwise?

Don't sweat the petty stuff, pet the sweaty stuff.


Offline Elizabeth

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Reply #711 on: August 04, 2013, 03:22:30 PM
Okay, Back to the orginial thread:
For those that are interested:
Major Religions of the world (top 5).
(1)  Christianity   2.1 Billion
(2)  Islam           1.5 Billion
(3)  Secular/Nonreligious/ Agnostic/Atheist    1.1 Billion
(4)  Hinduism       900 Million (This is also the Oldest in the world).
(5)  Chinese Traditional Religion    394 million
Now back to:  Does God Exist?....Who's God??
Not for nothing, but this thread has a long long way to go.

Love,
Liz


 



Offline Katiebee

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Reply #712 on: August 04, 2013, 05:07:57 PM
Liz, the one true God, of course.

Now we can fight It out for real. Which one is the one true God?


There are three kinds of people in the world. Those who can count, and those who can't.


Offline Fish

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Reply #713 on: August 04, 2013, 05:28:51 PM
The none true god, of course.

Don't sweat the petty stuff, pet the sweaty stuff.


Offline Elizabeth

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Reply #714 on: August 04, 2013, 05:44:53 PM
Liz, the one true God, of course.

Now we can fight It out for real. Which one is the one true God?



OoOOooOOOoooo......
Religious War!!!!!......
Can I quote Napolean Bonaparte...Can I, Can I.....???
Fuck It....I Will...!!!
Religious Wars ..." Two Groups Of People, Fighting Over Who Has The Better Imaginary Friend".

Love,
Liz
 



Offline Lostforkate

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Reply #715 on: August 04, 2013, 07:30:15 PM
One of my goals in life, is to get people to contemplate the existance of God. And for me, basically, that is my limit. I do this because I believe everyone has a soul, and I care about people in general.

I like christianity, because it lays out a vertical, internal, and horizontal relationship with God. It relays an exlellent moral code if one chooses to listen. I have witnessed people overcome tremandous obstacles in the life through their faith, and my relationship, provides all the proof I need.

I would recommend any search for God would negate a search for evidence, because faith requires no evidence.

In hearing some of the opinions here on KB, I think a different topic should be contemplated.

Do humans have souls? If one believes they have soul, or a spiritual aspect of their existance, then they should ask the question, what happens to their soul when they die.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2013, 07:50:18 PM by Lostforkate »



Offline Elizabeth

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Reply #716 on: August 04, 2013, 09:17:38 PM
Everyone has a right to believe in what they want.
Thats free choice and free will...
However, To claim your "GOD" is the one and only is "TOTALY AROGANT" on your part.
You do not have that right.
Now back to our regularly scheduled program of "what the fuck are we doing here as a planet"?

Love,
Liz




Offline Lostforkate

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Reply #717 on: August 04, 2013, 10:38:22 PM
I like the battlestar galactica myth, via aliens.



Offline Katiebee

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Reply #718 on: August 04, 2013, 10:46:51 PM
Oh, like the theory put forth in Prometheus?

There are three kinds of people in the world. Those who can count, and those who can't.


Offline Fish

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Reply #719 on: August 04, 2013, 10:52:26 PM
And what other standards could a human be expected to use?

How about none? To pass judgement on the entirety of the known universe based on your minuscule amount of experience of it is so utterly pretentious.

Use absolutely no standards to judge something... hmmm, doesn't sound like a judgment to me. I am confounded by the pretzel-twisted logic of the ultimate answer: god is mysterious, man. So be it, I give up.

It doesn't seem unreasonable for one to have a different opinion on the talent level behind the potential design of existence: there is TONS of astoundingly beautiful symmetry in the universe... only, when one considers that human existence wasn't an accident, then you might understand where I would find dispute in the talent level behind the design.

I think that it was all either some non-sentient creative force, or some sentient and completely uncaring force. How in the world would you explain misery and genocide otherwise?

But it is entirely unreasonable for the simple fact that reason just doesn't apply. You, I or any other human brain can't fathom anything so big as the the creation or purpose of everything that defines our reality.

If reason departs, so does all reasonable discussion. And yeah, it is a massively complex universe... if that makes the systems behind that creation god to you, then god they are.

However, I will humour you and address your question. Your assumption is that the Universe and specifically Earth and human life must have been engineered for some sort of purpose, if it was created by some higher intelligence at all.[/]quote]

I don't assume the intelligence is there at all, let alone higher. I would guess it is a non-sentient force, but that is a guess... based upon observable evidence.

I reiterate that I think applying such altogether human limits to a topic as broad as our creation is entirely pretentious but even by human standards you are lacking imagination. You are presuming that the Earth was created to serve some specific purpose, like a car or a hammer or a chair, or whatever. What if it is a piece of art?

I presumed nothing of the sort. If god created Earth as art, then either god is a complete fucking asshole, or the Holocaust was a fraud, and Hitler was the Easter bunny in disguise. Remember the "uncaring force" part of my last argument? That's where that comes in.

Call me pretentious all you want, you believe in god all you want, I'll freely admit you could be right, and take my chances laughing at the idea.

Don't sweat the petty stuff, pet the sweaty stuff.