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Does God exist?

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Offline Latina

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Reply #480 on: January 04, 2013, 10:17:12 PM
I was raised a Catholic, but that's it... now my views are more scientific I beloved that we evolved...

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Janus

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Reply #481 on: January 05, 2013, 06:28:03 PM

Because it was written by Man with inspiration from the Holy Spirit (God's Active Force)

Man at the time had no idea about the future. The fact about inconsistencies is that Satan is the father of Lies and confusion. He will rear up against God at every opportunity.

With all of the different versions of the Bible it's no wonder why there is more confusion.

I was raised to believe. I was also raised to question.

I tend to lean toward a  more natural belief. For me it's all about appreciation of what I have around me and what I feel were gifts of Mother Earth. Sinful things are what I have learned about myself I don't like and continue to do them anyway. The things I have changed are my spiritual Woo's....The things I am working on are my spiritual Purgatory. I am in between my sin and triumph. It is not a fun place to be with the conflict that goes on with many of the issues with which I struggle. As I age, I find these things even more unsettling. The moral compass needs repair and the only person to fix it is Me Myself and I........

Janus




Offline LordOfShadows

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Reply #482 on: January 06, 2013, 02:04:59 AM
So I thought I'd go ahead and dive balls first into a topic a little more heavy. There's always a good row between believers and non-believers. Personally, I am Wiccan. Not to say I do not believe in God, just that I don't believe in the standard 'Christian' idea of it. That being said, I get along with most Athiests and Agnostics as well, because my flavor of belief tends to run a little less fanatical and a little less 'God flipped the switch on life'.

I believe in evolution, and natural selection, I just believe that it was all designed by a truly inspired mind. A being so omnipotent, so omnipresent, that he/she can see all the potential for this world, this realm, and any/every other. Can see the could bes, the won't bes, and the must bes, and can interweave them into this chaotic cluster fuck of a tapestry that we call life.

I won't pretend to have read all the arguments on here, I browsed a few. Some were good, most were juvenile. Regardless of whether or not there is a divine being, what we down here have to deal with is people. The people who believe, whatever it is they may believe, and the way they handle themselves.

Personally, I can't stand a Christian who tries to force feed me the bible that they use as a tower shield of bigotry against anything they don't understand or can't agree with. But at the same time, Atheists who act intellectually superior because they 'see the truth of the world' are no better. Either way it's an ego-maniacal jackass trying to shove their opinion down your throat. And while some of us may very well enjoy having something shoved down our throats, that's usually a hard pill to swallow.

I've read some comments which suggest that the occurrence of religious wars is somehow proof that God doesn't exist. But that theory would have to be predicated upon an idea that God takes an active hand in everything we do. Personally, I believe in free will, and the idea that God takes any direct action would impose upon that free will.

Some argue that the mere existence of so many religions, and variations, are proof that no divine entity exists. I say that is some really single minded bullshit. I personally, go by at least three different names, to a variety of different groups of people. My work friends call me one thing, my family calls me another, my significant other calls me something else still, and friends from years gone by use names for me I haven't answered to in ages. But I am nevertheless the same person, the same entity. My existence does not change, though others perception of me might. Why would this be any different? Especially when dealing with an entity that does not present him or herself in any tangible way. But then, with the way that human beings act toward things they don't know, or don't understand, is it any wonder why?

What I find the most intriguing of all isn't the idea of a God, or the lack thereof. It's that with this species based, deeply ingrained idea of just how awesome we are as a race of sentient beings, that we were ever humble enough to even consider the idea that there was something greater than we.

Frankly, I think if God showed up right now and said 'Yo, how's it going? I'm the big G, just thought I'd stop by, see how it's hanging'. We'd all react more or less the same. Skepticism. Denial. Disbelief. Awe. Anger. Retribution.

Before you know it, we'd be trying to blow up God. We may be sentient. We may be intelligent. We may be quite a few things. But ready for this question to be definitively answered? No, we're not.

So in the meantime, how about we go with a much easier outlook. You believe what you want. I'll believe what I want. And so long as we're not hurting anyone (actual hurt, not perceived moral hurt by some right wing nut job who thinks butt sex hurts their soul) let's just live and let live. And we can all keep are egotistical, pride infused opinion shoving to ourselves.

Personally, I'm rather fond of staying quiet, keeping to myself, and reminding myself of just how right I always am. What need have I for you to agree?  :emot_lickie:

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Offline RopeFiend

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Reply #483 on: January 07, 2013, 12:05:50 AM

Remember the Golden Rule: you do me, and I\'ll do you (paraphrased)


Offline MissBarbara

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Reply #484 on: January 07, 2013, 05:38:29 PM
I was raised a Catholic, but that's it... now my views are more scientific I beloved that we evolved...


I, too, was raised Catholic. But that wasn't "it" for me. As I grew older, I progressed beyond my schoolgirl CCD classes, seeking a deeper understanding of what the Church teaches, and why.

And one of the many things I learned is that the Catholic Church sees no incompatibility between its teachings and scientific discoveries. This false dichotomy between religion and science, and between faith and reason, is chiefly propogated by those with little knowledge, and even less understanding, of what the Catholic Church actually teaches. Since the late 19th century, the Catholic Church has asserted a lack of conflict between the basic principles of evolution and its own basic principles.

By the way, one other thing I've learned is that many people -- including many people who should know better -- labor under the mistaken belief that the silly Creationist beliefs held by Evangelical Christians and other Fundamentalists match those of the Catholic Church. They do not.




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Offline Latina

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Reply #485 on: January 07, 2013, 05:52:25 PM

not that i believe it, but its a possibility
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 05:57:47 PM by Latina »

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Offline Elizabeth

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Reply #486 on: January 07, 2013, 08:29:59 PM
LOL.....
Wonders If It Was A T-Rex That Chased Adam And Eve Out Of The Garden Of Eden?
LOL......

Sorry, I couldn't resirt saying that!!!
My Bad.

Love,
Liz



Offline Latina

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Reply #487 on: January 07, 2013, 08:56:54 PM
Lol... :emot_laughing:

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Offline LordOfShadows

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Reply #488 on: January 08, 2013, 05:40:01 PM
It was a velociraptor, actually.

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Offline MissBarbara

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Reply #489 on: January 08, 2013, 06:18:14 PM
It was a velociraptor, actually.


No, Liz is right, it was a T-Rex.

It says so right there in the Bible!





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Offline Elizabeth

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Reply #490 on: January 08, 2013, 07:42:01 PM
OMG!!!!
LOL.....It Does????.....Really????
Where???
Love,
Liz



Offline Lois

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Reply #491 on: January 08, 2013, 10:03:04 PM
I believe humans are generally dualistic by nature.  By his I mean that we tend to believe in both the spiritual and material aspects of the world.  Accordingly, I believe there is no need for a conflict between religion and science.  They are simply two aspects of our nature.



Offline MissBarbara

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Reply #492 on: January 08, 2013, 10:42:08 PM
I believe humans are generally dualistic by nature.  By his I mean that we tend to believe in both the spiritual and material aspects of the world.  Accordingly, I believe there is no need for a conflict between religion and science.  They are simply two aspects of our nature.

I've spoken at length previously in this thread about how spirituality and science are very much separate. One cannot prove nor disprove the other. However most religions do clash with science in some ways.


I think both Lois and Galaxbounce make good points here. This was what I referred to, above, as the "false dichotomy between religion and science, and between faith and reason."

One minor point to Lois's post: you use the word "believe" in two different ways. Positing the existence of God, for example, requires belief; this is not something that can (or ever will be) demonstrated, in the way that scientific facts can be deomnstrated. At the same time, scientific facts do not have to be believed. They are facts, or at least overwhelmingly compelling demonstrations.

Farmer Miles puts it perfectly: "One cannot prove nor disprove the other." Religion will never be able to prove that God exists; and science will never be able to prove that God does not exist.





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Offline Lois

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Reply #493 on: January 09, 2013, 05:11:46 AM


Quote
Hosts of the Atheist Experience cable access show in Austin hung up on a Christian caller over the weekend after he suggested that God might not stop the rape of a little girl because the victim was also “evil.”
Continue -
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/01/08/atheist-tv-host-boots-piece-of-sht-christian-for-calling-raped-girl-evil/



Offline Katiebee

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Reply #494 on: January 13, 2013, 05:36:12 AM


::: raises her hand :::Because it was written by men?

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Offline Katiebee

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Reply #495 on: January 13, 2013, 05:37:06 AM
Another post from my cousin, "Truth + God = Life".

It is taking all my willpower to not transpose this equation to Truth = Life -God.
I could also go with God = Life - Truth.

Don't play logic games with him. He won't appreciate it.

 :emot_laughing:
« Last Edit: January 13, 2013, 05:40:35 AM by Katiebee »

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Offline Katiebee

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Reply #496 on: January 13, 2013, 05:39:40 AM
I believe humans are generally dualistic by nature.  By his I mean that we tend to believe in both the spiritual and material aspects of the world.  Accordingly, I believe there is no need for a conflict between religion and science.  They are simply two aspects of our nature.

I've spoken at length previously in this thread about how spirituality and science are very much separate. One cannot prove nor disprove the other. However most religions do clash with science in some ways.
Is it the religion? Or is it the men who preach the dogma to enhance their power?

There are three kinds of people in the world. Those who can count, and those who can't.


Offline Jakeoff

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Reply #497 on: January 14, 2013, 03:56:28 AM
The world never seems to achieve a suitable answer because (as can be witness over the past 39+ pages), nearly all prove/disprove from the context of religion. Even the so-called science-minded.  
The proper start is to define what one means by the term "God."

Fuck all the books, videos, history, etc. Use your logical mind. Use reason. Ask yourself. That's the path to start on.

oh....there's Jake.


Offline Gina Marie

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Reply #498 on: January 15, 2013, 09:50:10 AM



Offline MissBarbara

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Reply #499 on: January 15, 2013, 06:12:26 PM

I realize this is only tangetially related, but:



More Young People Are Moving Away From Religion, But Why?
by NPR Staff
January 15, 2013


One-fifth of Americans are religiously unaffiliated — higher than at any time in recent U.S. history — and those younger than 30 especially seem to be drifting from organized religion. A third of young Americans say they don't belong to any religion.

NPR Morning Edition co-host David Greene wanted to understand why, so he gathered a roundtable of young people at a synagogue in Washington, D.C. The Historic 6th & I Synagogue seemed like the right venue: It's both a holy and secular place that has everything from religious services to rock concerts. Greene speaks with six people — three young women and three young men — all struggling with the role of faith and religion in their lives.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Interview Highlights

Miriam Nissly, 29, was raised Jewish and considers herself Jewish with an "agnostic bent." She loves going to synagogue.


"I realize maybe there's a disconnect there — why are you doing it if you don't necessarily have a belief in God? But I think there's a cultural aspect, there's a spiritual aspect, I suppose. I find the practice of sitting and being quiet and being alone with your thoughts to be helpful, but I don't think I need to answer that question [about God] in order to participate in the traditions I was brought up with."

Yusuf Ahmad, 33, raised Muslim, is now an atheist. His doubts set in as a child with sacred stories he just didn't believe.

"Like the story of Abraham — his God tells him to sacrifice his son. Then he takes his son to sacrifice him, and he turns into a goat. I remember growing up, in like fifth [or] sixth grade I'd hear these stories and be like, 'That's crazy! Why would this guy do this? Just because he heard a voice in his head, he went to sacrifice his son and it turned into a goat?' There's no way that this happened. I wasn't buying it.

"Today if some guy told you that 'I need to sacrifice my son because God told me to do it,' he'd be locked up in a crazy institution."

Kyle Simpson, 27, raised Christian. He has a tattoo on the inside of his wrist that says "Salvation from the cross" in Latin.

"It's a little troublesome now when people ask me. I tell them and they go, 'Oh, you're a Christian,' and I try to skirt the issue now. They go, 'What does that mean?' and it's like, "It's Latin for 'I made a mistake when I was 18.'

"When I first got the tattoo I remember thinking, 'Oh, this will be great because when I'm having troubles in my faith I will be able to look at it, and I can't run away from it.' And that is exactly what is happening.

"I don't [believe in God] but I really want to. That's the problem with questions like these is you don't have anything that clearly states, 'Yes, this is fact,' so I'm constantly struggling. But looking right at the facts — evolution and science — they're saying, no there is none. But what about love? What about the ideas of forgiveness? I like to believe they are true and they are meaningful.

"I think having a God would create a meaning for our lives, like we're working toward a purpose — and it's all worthwhile because at the end of the day we will maybe move on to another life where everything is beautiful. I love that idea."

Melissa Adelman, 30, raised Catholic

"Starting in middle school we got the lessons about why premarital sex was not OK, why active homosexuality was not OK, and growing up in American culture, kids automatically pushed back on those things, and so we had some of those conversations in school with our theology teachers. The thing for me — a large part of the reason I moved away from Catholicism was because without accepting a lot of these core beliefs, I just didn't think that I could still be part of that community.

"I remember a theology test in eighth grade where there was a question about homosexuality, and the right answer was that if you are homosexual, then that is not a sin because that's how God made you, but acting upon it would be a sin. That's what I put down as the answer, but I vividly remember thinking to myself that that was not the right answer."

Rigoberto Perez, 30, raised as Seventh-day Adventist

"It was a fairly important part of our lives. It was something we did every Saturday morning. We celebrate the Sabbath on Saturday. It was pretty hard growing up in a lot of ways. We didn't have a lot of money, the household wasn't very stable a lot of the time, so when something bad would happen, say a prayer, go to church. When my mom got cancer the first time, it was something that was useful at the time for me as a coping mechanism.

"While I was younger, my father drank a lot. There was abuse in the home. My brother committed suicide in 2001. So at some point you start to say, 'Why does all this stuff happen to people?' And if I pray and nothing good happens, is that supposed to be I'm being tried? I find that almost kind of cruel in some ways. It's like burning ants with a magnifying glass. Eventually that gets just too hard to believe anymore."

Lizz Reeves, 23, raised by a Jewish mother and a Christian father. She lost a brother to cancer.

"I wanted so badly to believe in God and in heaven, and that's where he was going. I wanted to have some sort of purpose and meaning associated with his passing. And ultimately the more time I spent thinking about it, I realized the purpose and meaning of his life had nothing to do with heaven, but it had to do with how I could make choices in my life that give his life meaning. And that had a lot more weight with me than any kind of faith in anything else."



http://www.npr.org/2013/01/15/169342349/more-young-people-are-moving-away-from-religion-but-why?ft=3&f=1001&sc=nl&cc=nh-20130115




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