Does God exist?

[Elizabeth]

I'm a lesbian and according to all the "bible thumpers" I'm going to hell. anyway........that being said someone tell me why I should worry about "if" God exist?

Love,
Liz

[watcher1]

I'm a lesbian and according to all the "bible thumpers" I'm going to hell. anyway........that being said someone tell me why I should worry about "if" God exist?

Love,
Liz

Don't worry about what others think.  A belief in God is a personal thing.  But if you are going to Hell, I'll be waiting.  I found this neat hayloft there......

[Fish]

I'm a lesbian and according to all the "bible thumpers" I'm going to hell. anyway........that being said someone tell me why I should worry about "if" God exist?

Love,
Liz

I challenge anyone to find me something in the bible against lesbians. Got only hates gay men, he's fine with the ladies.

[Stevie]

God is alive and well, and working on a less ambitious project.

[MissBarbara]

I'm a lesbian and according to all the "bible thumpers" I'm going to hell. anyway........that being said someone tell me why I should worry about "if" God exist?

Love,
Liz

I challenge anyone to find me something in the bible against lesbians. Got only hates gay men, he's fine with the ladies.

I challenge you to find something in the Bible that says that God hates gay men.

[Fish]

Leviticus.

Without taking the time to get the chapter and verse, or to get the exact words, it went something like...

"If a man uncover another man's nakedness, it is wicked, and you shall put him to death by stoning him."

Something like that. He's not a fan of the whole guy-on-guy stuff. There are other things in the bible about gay men, but not about lesbians - the closest thing to anti-lesbian propoganda I've ever seen in the bible was about marriage.

[MintJulie]

Sorry to jump in here.  Not meaning to derail your current discussion Fish and Barb.



I don't think God exists.   I don't think heaven exists.     But I've had some very weird and real dreams where my sister visits me and tells me about heaven and how wonderful it is and asks me about things here on earth.    My niece has also had dreams about her mom, but it has been at least 6 months since her last one.  

I hope there really is a heaven.

[Katiebee]

Besides, like all religions, the Bible is a compilation of rules for an agrarian and herding society to reduce internal conflicts govern increase and inheritance of wealth, and by coincidence marital laws and governance for increasing the population, which is very important in agrarian and herding societies.

[MissBarbara]

Leviticus.

Without taking the time to get the chapter and verse, or to get the exact words, it went something like...

"If a man uncover another man's nakedness, it is wicked, and you shall put him to death by stoning him."

Something like that. He's not a fan of the whole guy-on-guy stuff. There are other things in the bible about gay men, but not about lesbians - the closest thing to anti-lesbian propoganda I've ever seen in the bible was about marriage.

I suspected you were going to go there.

The fact is, this passage in no way indicates that "God hates gay men" (your words). Nor do any of the other passages proffered by those seeking to "prove" that the Bible, and thus God, condemns homosexuality.

If you were to take every Biblical proscription as an indication of God's hatred, then God hates everyone who ever lived and who ever will live.

And that misses the most basic point of all...

[Fish]

Leviticus.

Without taking the time to get the chapter and verse, or to get the exact words, it went something like...

"If a man uncover another man's nakedness, it is wicked, and you shall put him to death by stoning him."

Something like that. He's not a fan of the whole guy-on-guy stuff. There are other things in the bible about gay men, but not about lesbians - the closest thing to anti-lesbian propoganda I've ever seen in the bible was about marriage.

I suspected you were going to go there.

The fact is, this passage in no way indicates that "God hates gay men" (your words). Nor do any of the other passages proffered by those seeking to "prove" that the Bible, and thus God, condemns homosexuality.

If you were to take every Biblical proscription as an indication of God's hatred, then God hates everyone who ever lived and who ever will live.

And that misses the most basic point of all...

Really? I think that is the basic point of it all.

He floods, we die.

He orders his chosen to invade a city and kill every single man, woman, and child.

God only tolerates Jews in the old testament, then only friends in the new testament.

Fuck him

[MissBarbara]

Leviticus.

Without taking the time to get the chapter and verse, or to get the exact words, it went something like...

"If a man uncover another man's nakedness, it is wicked, and you shall put him to death by stoning him."

Something like that. He's not a fan of the whole guy-on-guy stuff. There are other things in the bible about gay men, but not about lesbians - the closest thing to anti-lesbian propoganda I've ever seen in the bible was about marriage.

I suspected you were going to go there.

The fact is, this passage in no way indicates that "God hates gay men" (your words). Nor do any of the other passages proffered by those seeking to "prove" that the Bible, and thus God, condemns homosexuality.

If you were to take every Biblical proscription as an indication of God's hatred, then God hates everyone who ever lived and who ever will live.

And that misses the most basic point of all...

Really? I think that is the basic point of it all.

He floods, we die.

He orders his chosen to invade a city and kill every single man, woman, and child.

God only tolerates Jews in the old testament, then only friends in the new testament.

Fuck him

Well, if you subscribe to a strictly literal interpretation of the Bible, then I suppose that would be true.

But outside the world of fundamentalism, very few people do that...

[Fish]

Leviticus.

Without taking the time to get the chapter and verse, or to get the exact words, it went something like...

"If a man uncover another man's nakedness, it is wicked, and you shall put him to death by stoning him."

Something like that. He's not a fan of the whole guy-on-guy stuff. There are other things in the bible about gay men, but not about lesbians - the closest thing to anti-lesbian propoganda I've ever seen in the bible was about marriage.

I suspected you were going to go there.

The fact is, this passage in no way indicates that "God hates gay men" (your words). Nor do any of the other passages proffered by those seeking to "prove" that the Bible, and thus God, condemns homosexuality.

If you were to take every Biblical proscription as an indication of God's hatred, then God hates everyone who ever lived and who ever will live.

And that misses the most basic point of all...

Really? I think that is the basic point of it all.

He floods, we die.

He orders his chosen to invade a city and kill every single man, woman, and child.

God only tolerates Jews in the old testament, then only friends in the new testament.

Fuck him

Well, if you subscribe to a strictly literal interpretation of the Bible, then I suppose that would be true.

But outside the world of fundamentalism, very few people do that...

I can pick and choose passages from Mein Kamph to make it reasonable.

[Freemont]

Leviticus.

Without taking the time to get the chapter and verse, or to get the exact words, it went something like...

"If a man uncover another man's nakedness, it is wicked, and you shall put him to death by stoning him."

Something like that. He's not a fan of the whole guy-on-guy stuff. There are other things in the bible about gay men, but not about lesbians - the closest thing to anti-lesbian propoganda I've ever seen in the bible was about marriage.

I suspected you were going to go there.

The fact is, this passage in no way indicates that "God hates gay men" (your words). Nor do any of the other passages proffered by those seeking to "prove" that the Bible, and thus God, condemns homosexuality.

If you were to take every Biblical proscription as an indication of God's hatred, then God hates everyone who ever lived and who ever will live.

And that misses the most basic point of all...

Really? I think that is the basic point of it all.

He floods, we die.

He orders his chosen to invade a city and kill every single man, woman, and child.

God only tolerates Jews in the old testament, then only friends in the new testament.

Fuck him

Well, if you subscribe to a strictly literal interpretation of the Bible, then I suppose that would be true.

But outside the world of fundamentalism, very few people do that...

I can pick and choose passages from Mein Kamph to make it reasonable.

First, if you read the bible you already are reading the edited version, unless you include the "apocrypha" books as well.
Second, The bible is more a collection then a book. Lots of books in one volume.
Third, The bible has been transcribed, edited, updated, translated and reorganised so much that taking ANYTHING in it as "Gospel" (love the Irony of that) is rediculous.
Finally, any ancient text suffers from cultural bias and therefor reflects the state and time within which it was written.

So what does this all add up to? I suggest going for the overall theme of these texts, not specifics. Any fundamentalist quoting exact wording in any ancient text is just gonna look like an idiot. Every religion has some and the rest of us look on them as the fools they are

[MissBarbara]

Leviticus.

Without taking the time to get the chapter and verse, or to get the exact words, it went something like...

"If a man uncover another man's nakedness, it is wicked, and you shall put him to death by stoning him."

Something like that. He's not a fan of the whole guy-on-guy stuff. There are other things in the bible about gay men, but not about lesbians - the closest thing to anti-lesbian propoganda I've ever seen in the bible was about marriage.

I suspected you were going to go there.

The fact is, this passage in no way indicates that "God hates gay men" (your words). Nor do any of the other passages proffered by those seeking to "prove" that the Bible, and thus God, condemns homosexuality.

If you were to take every Biblical proscription as an indication of God's hatred, then God hates everyone who ever lived and who ever will live.

And that misses the most basic point of all...

Really? I think that is the basic point of it all.

He floods, we die.

He orders his chosen to invade a city and kill every single man, woman, and child.

God only tolerates Jews in the old testament, then only friends in the new testament.

Fuck him

Well, if you subscribe to a strictly literal interpretation of the Bible, then I suppose that would be true.

But outside the world of fundamentalism, very few people do that...

I can pick and choose passages from Mein Kamph to make it reasonable.

First, if you read the bible you already are reading the edited version, unless you include the "apocrypha" books as well.

Second, The bible is more a collection then a book. Lots of books in one volume.

Third, The bible has been transcribed, edited, updated, translated and reorganised so much that taking ANYTHING in it as "Gospel" (love the Irony of that) is rediculous.

Finally, any ancient text suffers from cultural bias and therefor reflects the state and time within which it was written.

For anyone interested in this topic, I strongly recommend the book, "Misquoting Jesus," by Bart D. Ehrman. It's fascinating, and illuminating.

So what does this all add up to? I suggest going for the overall theme of these texts, not specifics.

Yes, that was my point.

[Fish]

The overall theme?

Old testament: god creates imperfection and punishes imperfection. God loves a small portion of the world, creates ridiculous rules, and murders millions or billions of others.

New testament: Jesus changes all. Now god loves everyone, and some of the ridiculous rules disappear because Jesus died to appease gods anger over the shortcomings of his own creation. All is well if you worship this maniac, but hell if you dont.

That's the overall theme.

[Katiebee]

From an anthropological viewpoint the overall message is consistent.

1. Deal with others of your society in a consistent and fair manner.

2. Don't fuck around the flagpole, it ruins the peace of the village.

3. Don't kill the members of your society, you may need them for defense or assistance during tough times.

From the New Testament. It's basically the same thing, but the society is expanded to acknowledge even those not part of your tribe.

[Freemont]

From an anthropological viewpoint the overall message is consistent.

1. Deal with others of your society in a consistent and fair manner.

2. Don't fuck around the flagpole, it ruins the peace of the village.

3. Don't kill the members of your society, you may need them for defense or assistance during tough times.

From the New Testament. It's basically the same thing, but the society is expanded to acknowledge even those not part of your tribe.

Basically this

[Fish]

From an anthropological viewpoint the overall message is consistent.

1. Deal with others of your society in a consistent and fair manner.

Are you joking?

Is that what it's called when you bludgeon someone to death for giving a bro-job?

Is that what it's called when you turn a woman into salt just for not following orders?

Is that what it's called when you DROWN millions or even billions of people because you don't like them?

And of course, you planned the whole thing! Those you killed were doing EXACTLY what you knew they would do!

Not to mention Job.

And for the record, I don't need a book about misquoting Jesus - I didn't quote Jesus at all - why? Because Jesus was a pretty damn cool guy. The sermon on the mount was a true miracle. Why don't I like the New Testament? Paul.

God is a sociopath according to the old Testament. Not only that, he is the ultimate egomaniac: he literally punishes those who fail to worship him enough by sending them to an eternity in hell. Even in the New Testament, god is a complete and total fucking cocksucker - read your own book, and stop chopping out massive parts of the book to excuse some of the most awful, despicable behavior ever described.

[MissBarbara]

And for the record, I don't need a book about misquoting Jesus - I didn't quote Jesus at all - why? Because Jesus was a pretty damn cool guy. The sermon on the mount was a true miracle. Why don't I like the New Testament? Paul.

From what you've written here, it's clear that you'd greatly benefit from such a book.

Then again, far too many people these days dismiss any chance to expand their understanding and instead chose to wallow in their ignorance and blinkered (and relatively baseless) opinions.

[Fish]

Baseless?

You're far too smart to accuse me of baseless accusations.

You don't even attempt to justify gods behavior with logic because it is illogical an indefensible.