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The Clinton Thread: All things Hillary

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Offline Lois

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Reply #380 on: July 29, 2016, 06:53:10 AM
I have more news for you Joan.  The estate tax exclusion amount is currently $5,450,000.  This means this amount is not taxed.  Any amount over the exclusion amount is taxed at 40%.  Personally I feel the exclusion amount is very generous, and certainly does not burden the middle class. The exclusion amount could easily be lowered.

Also, $250,000 a year is not middle class. It is a quarter million dollars a year.  According to the experts, middle class is $47,000 to $140,000 per year.  So is Hillary planning to raise taxes on people making this amount?  I would also like to see the sources you used.



Economists savage Trump's economic agenda
Raising tariffs and deporting millions of people will drive up prices and cause recession, experts assert.
By Ben White

Many economists say Donald Trump’s proposals — from big import tariffs to mass deportations — would hurt the very demographic that supports him in the greatest numbers: less educated voters struggling in a tepid U.S. economy.

If Trump policies actually went into effect, these economists say, prices for goods lower-income Americans depend on could soar and a depleted low-end labor force could trigger a major downturn.

Trump’s appeal rests in part on the sense that he will be a tougher negotiator with trading partners. But comparatively less attention has been given in debates and on the campaign trail to the actual substance of his economic proposals, opening a new line of attack for mainstream critics against his unconventional economic thinking.

“There is a good reason many people are upset and angry, because for many it’s been a very rough decade,” said Mark Zandi, chief economist for Moody’s Analytics and an adviser to John McCain’s 2008 presidential campaign. “But if Trump’s policies were enacted it would be some form of disaster for the economy. If you force 11 million undocumented immigrants to leave in a year, you would be looking at a depression. It would not help the people he is talking to, they would be the first to go down.”

The reasons for this are simple, economists say. The economy is close to reaching “full employment," adding another 292,000 jobs in December. The jobless rate remained at 5 percent.

If 11 million immigrants were rounded up and removed from the country, many of the jobs they do — including restaurant, hotel and low-end construction work — could go largely unfilled, economists say. That would create a large and immediate hit to gross domestic product growth and the effects would ripple out to companies that supply goods and services to all those businesses. There would also be 11 million fewer people consuming goods and services, further driving down economic activity.

And on trade, Trump has argued for imposing big tariffs on goods imported from Mexico, China and elsewhere. The problem with this, many economists say, is the tariffs would ultimately be paid by U.S. consumers in the form of higher prices and would not lead to any significant increase in U.S. manufacturing.

“It’s a common mistake that people who don’t really understand economics make that this would somehow be a tariff on exporters,” said Mark J. Perry, a professor at the University of Michigan at Flint and a scholar at the conservative American Enterprise Institute. “It would be actually be a tax on American consumers. And more than half of U.S. imports come in as raw materials. And those cheap imports benefit American companies that hire American workers to finish the production process. Trump is really harkening back to the outdated mercantilist positions of hundreds of years ago.”

Trump is not without his defenders, even in the GOP establishment that he has spurned.

“I’ve spoken in defense of Donald’s tax policy and I will continue to defend it,” said conservative economist and Reagan administration official Larry Kudlow, who spoke just after talking to Trump at an event in New York on Friday. “The thing that’s so important in the tax policy is his corporate rate cut and easy repatriation of capital from abroad. These will add so much growth to the economy and the biggest beneficiaries will be middle income earners.”

Kudlow, however, like many other mainstream Republican economists, does not support Trump’s policies on immediate mass deportations or big trade tariffs. “I’m never going to support the deportations. And if you lower the corporate tax rate enough, capital is going to come back from China and you don’t need tariffs, which just hurt consumers.”

Other economists say while Trump has tapped into real problems — slack wages and general economic anxiety — his proposed solutions would not really help.

“It seems like economics is not really his highest priority. These are political stances,” said Lindsey Piegza, chief economist at Stifel Nicolaus. “At a time when U.S. exports are on the decline as a result of the strong dollar, adding the threat of tariffs is going to add another negative impact on U.S. exports.” Nations that face U.S. tariffs tend to respond with tariffs and other retaliatory moves of their own, setting off possible trade wars.

On immigration, Piegza said, Trump “is making some bold assumptions. He’s saying if you remove 11 million people from the labor force that's suddenly 11 million jobs for Americans. But you have to assume Americans would be willing to take those jobs.”
She added that even if some Americans do take those jobs — while presumably demanding higher pay — the cost of production and thus the cost of goods and services would rise, forcing consumers to pay more, eating up the wage gains.

Part of the problem with Trump, economists say, is the rhetoric that informs the real estate billionaire’s policies and thrills his supporters, is not based on economic reality.

“I saw a chart the other day, our real unemployment — because you have 90 million people that aren’t working,” Trump said last year. “Ninety-three million to be exact. If you start adding it up, our real unemployment rate is 42 percent.”

Trump appeared to be counting all Americans not in the work force. But that figure includes students, stay-at-home parents and retirees, among others. These people are not “unemployed,” they just don’t need or want to work and are not part of the labor force by choice. Even the broadest measure of unemployment, which takes into account the underemployed and those “marginally” attached to the labor force, is at 9.9 percent and falling, a figure not that far off of historic norms.

“He is just flat wrong about unemployment,” said Zandi. “Historically, even in the best of times and tightest of labor markers the underemployment rate is closer to 9 percent, and we will probably absorb that gap and be at full-employment by midyear.” The Trump campaign did not respond to requests for comment on his economic policies and statements.

Trump also late last year suggested the U.S. economy might be in a “bubble” that could burst at any time.

“Remember the word bubble? You heard it here first,” Trump said in Iowa in December. “We could be on a bubble and that bubble could crash and it’s not going to be a pretty picture,” said Trump. “The market has gone down big league the last couple of weeks. We could be in a big fat bubble and if that bubble crashes, it's a problem.”

Many economists say this is a misreading of the U.S. economy. Growth has been sluggish — moving forward at only around 2 percent — but there are very few signs that there are any bubbles with the possible exception of high-end commercial and residential real estate in certain markets, an area that Trump knows well.

“There is little chance that the U.S. economy is a bubble. Retail sales and manufacturing output have looked dismal for months, despite lower oil prices,” said Megan Greene, chief economist at Manulife. “Most analysts are revising their economic forecasts for the U.S. for 2015 and 2016 down — not up — to reflect poorer economic performance than expected. It is hard to see where the demand for a macroeconomic bubble in the U.S. might come from given generally low global aggregate demand.”

While economists mostly disagree with Trump’s assessment that the U.S. economy is in a bubble, some do suggest he could be right that U.S. stock prices, which got off to their worst start of the year ever, could fall even further as the Federal Reserve hikes interest rates this year and China’s markets continue to face turmoil as the country tries to shift toward a model based on domestic consumption rathe than production and exports.

“If fundamentals fail to improve fast enough and validate asset prices, global markets risk going through a disruptive downward adjustment process that, in turn, could threaten the world’s economic well-being,” said Mohamed A. El-Erian, chief economic adviser at Allianz.

Democrats, meanwhile, see an opening to appeal to Trump voters by acknowledging the struggles they face while arguing that the billionaire’s policies would be ineffective in driving faster growth or addressing economic inequality.

Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has spent much of her campaign talking about plans to invest more in infrastructure, boost some capital gains taxes and provide tax credits to companies that share profits more broadly with employees.

Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders has made more direct appeals to Trump voters. “What I’m suggesting is that what Trump has done with some success has taken that anger, taken those fears — which are legitimate — and converted them into anger against Mexicans, anger against Muslims,” Sanders said on CBS last month. “For his working class and middle-class support, we can make the case that if we really want to address the issues that people are concerned about. We need policies that bring us together, that take on the greed of Wall Street the greed of corporate America and create a middle class that works for all of us rather than an economy that works just for a few.”

Democratic-leaning economists say Trump is most vulnerable to attacks that his tax plan would deliver massive benefits to the wealthiest Americans. According to the Tax Policy Center, Trump’s tax plan would reduce federal revenue by $9.5 trillion over the next decade. It would also provide an average $1.3 million tax cut for the top 0.1 percent of earners, the Tax Policy Center found. The Trump campaign has disputed these findings.

Polls consistently show that voters of all partisan stripes favor tax hikes rather than tax cuts on the rich. And that leaves Democrats salivating at the idea of taking on Trump this fall.

“He takes a very populist tone on taxes, but when you look at the plan it is very much weighted to cutting taxes at the very top,” said Heather Boushey, chief economist at the progressive Washington Center for Equitable Growth. “And this is by now a decades old story. If cutting taxes at the very top would really make America grow faster we should be growing a lot faster right now given how often we have done it.”

Boushey, however, did offer some sympathy for Trump’s efforts to address workers impacted by previous free trade deals.

“There is a lot of new research documenting how when you open U.S. trade, that can actually lead to negative outcomes for workers,” she said. “And that’s why this anger from Trump supporters is real even if you don't support his policy proposals.”


Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/trump-economy-217496#ixzz4Flo4SLN2
 
« Last Edit: July 29, 2016, 07:08:42 AM by Lois »



Offline watcher1

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Reply #381 on: July 29, 2016, 03:44:58 PM
$147,000 a year is middle class?   :o  Many families with two incomes do not make that much..

Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds.


Offline Piper-Dreams

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Reply #382 on: July 29, 2016, 04:23:09 PM
Pay it off? What are you fiscally responsible? Do what the Republicans do. Increase spending and cut taxes.


YEAH!!!! And bomb lots of brown people! Republicans are FAAAAANNNNNNTTTTTAAASSSSTTTTTIIIICCCC at that as well.



Offline Katiebee

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Reply #383 on: July 29, 2016, 04:24:42 PM
Things have moved on. Inflation for one.

The Republicans are out of touch with reality because while their core finders have gotten richer, the middle class has shrunk because the trickle down theory of economics does not work.

There are three kinds of people in the world. Those who can count, and those who can't.


Offline Piper-Dreams

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Reply #384 on: July 29, 2016, 04:24:59 PM
Ageed.  What I don't understand is why Trump when she has Johnson to vote for.  He is not a crook.
One could ask why Hillary or Trump when there is Stein or Johnson to vote for?

Because they have not a snowballs chance in hell of winning. You might as well nominate Mickey Mouse.



Offline Elizabeth

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Reply #385 on: July 29, 2016, 04:35:15 PM
Reduce the debt....??
How about we do like the Russian's did.....Not just get out of Afghanistan but run as fast as we can. After all, how much longer can we afford to pay for an unwinnable war.

Love,
Liz



Offline Piper-Dreams

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Reply #386 on: July 29, 2016, 04:40:07 PM
Reduce the debt....??
How about we do like the Russian's did.....Not just get out of Afghanistan but run as fast as we can. After all, how much longer can we afford to pay for an unwinnable war.

Love,
Liz



You mean like making a ego driven maniac dictator and rely mostly on oil for our nations financial health?  :D



Offline Katiebee

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Reply #387 on: July 29, 2016, 04:54:17 PM
Ageed.  What I don't understand is why Trump when she has Johnson to vote for.  He is not a crook.
One could ask why Hillary or Trump when there is Stein or Johnson to vote for?

Because they have not a snowballs chance in hell of winning. You might as well nominate Mickey Mouse.
They did at the RNC.

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Offline Piper-Dreams

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Reply #388 on: July 29, 2016, 05:54:02 PM
Ageed.  What I don't understand is why Trump when she has Johnson to vote for.  He is not a crook.
One could ask why Hillary or Trump when there is Stein or Johnson to vote for?

Because they have not a snowballs chance in hell of winning. You might as well nominate Mickey Mouse.
They did at the RNC.

Ba Zing!   ;D



Offline watcher1

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Reply #389 on: July 29, 2016, 07:39:04 PM
Read an interesting statistic in the newspaper.  It said the last Democratic president to be elected by a majority white vote was LBJ.

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Offline lookinginnd

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Reply #390 on: July 30, 2016, 03:36:03 AM

Because they have not a snowballs chance in hell of winning. You might as well nominate Mickey Mouse.

Mickey Mouse would still be a better choice then thing 1 or thing 2 the mainstream parties are propping up.  :emot_laughing:



Offline Lois

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Reply #391 on: July 30, 2016, 11:37:37 PM
Trump was not being sarcastic, he just claimed he was after the outrage about his comments began.  It's called "covering up."

Some transcripts from his various interviews regarding his relationship with Putin.

HALLIE JACKSON: New fallout for encouraging espionage from Russia against Hillary Clinton. And now a new defense.

[BEGIN AUDIO]

DONALD TRUMP: I was being sarcastic when I said it, but where are those emails?

[END AUDIO]

JACKSON: Sarcasm he says. National security experts not laughing. Trump's talk about Russia raising new questions about his relationship with its president, Vladimir Putin.

[BEGIN VIDEO]

TRUMP: I never met Putin. I don't know who Putin is. He said one nice thing about me.

[END VIDEO]

JACKSON: But here's what he said in 2013 to MSNBC's Thomas Roberts.

[BEGIN VIDEO]

TRUMP: I do have a relationship, and I can tell you that he's very interested in what we're doing here today.

[END VIDEO]

JACKSON: A Trump aide maintaining the two men have never had a personal relationship, arguing nothing Trump has said publicly contradicts that. Those public comments including these in 2014 --

[BEGIN VIDEO]

TRUMP: I spoke indirectly and directly with President Putin, who could not have been nicer.

[END VIDEO]

JACKSON: -- and these in 2015.   

[BEGIN VIDEO]

TRUMP: And I got to know him very well because we were both on 60 Minutes.

[END VIDEO]



Offline joan1984

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Reply #392 on: August 01, 2016, 07:38:01 PM
Julian Assange: Hacked Emails
Include Info On Hillary’s Arming
of Jihadists, Including ISIS, in Syria

Jim Hoft Jul 31st, 2016

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton knew that the US was sending arms from Libya to Syria back in 2011, a year before the Benghazi consulate attacks.

Hillary Clinton denied she knew about the weapons shipments during public testimony (under oath) in early 2013 after the Benghazi terrorist attack.

Senator Rand Paul questioned Hillary Clinton about this gun running program back in January 2013 during her testimony on the Benghazi terrorist attack.


On Tuesday Julian Assange told Democracy Now that the Wikileaks DNC emails contains information on the weapons shipments to Syria.


  Julian Assange:
 
   "So, those Hillary Clinton emails, they connect together with the cables that we have published of Hillary Clinton, creating a rich picture of how Hillary Clinton performs in office, but, more broadly, how the U.S. Department of State operates.

   So, for example, the disastrous, absolutely disastrous intervention in Libya, the destruction of the Gaddafi government, which led to the occupation of ISIS of large segments of that country, weapons flows going over to Syria, being pushed by Hillary Clinton, into jihadists within Syria, including ISIS, that’s there in those emails.

   There’s more than 1,700 emails in Hillary Clinton’s collection, that we have released, just about Libya alone."

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/07/julian-assange-hacked-emails-include-info-hillarys-arming-jihadists-including-isis-syria/

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Offline Katiebee

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Reply #393 on: August 01, 2016, 08:18:31 PM
Really Joan?

You do realize that was an endorsed program by all of your fucking right-wing heroes.
It is truly discouraging to see you denigrate someone for policies you and your right wing heroes endorsed and promoted at the time.

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Offline joan1984

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Reply #394 on: August 01, 2016, 09:16:30 PM
   Perjury before Congress by Secretary of State Clinton is a right wing thing?

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but they bring a smile to your face as they fall down stairs.


Offline Piper-Dreams

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Reply #395 on: August 01, 2016, 09:24:48 PM
   Perjury before Congress by Secretary of State Clinton is a right wing thing?

No, but caring about Benghazi is. Nobody outside of the party gives a flying fuck about Benghazi. Hell, most people don't even know where it is.



Offline Lois

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Reply #396 on: August 01, 2016, 11:25:13 PM
Assange hates Hillary and said he is out to get her.  I would not put it past him to have forged an email or two.  Plus, no one hacked Hillary's emails that I know of.  Just the DNC and her campaign.

And let us not forget that these emails were likely hacked by the Russians, who are afraid of Hillary being elected because they know she's tough.

Who would you rather have in office?  Someone the Russians don't want or someone they think is great because they can manipulate him by giving him compliments?

It's a no-brainer.



Offline Lois

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Reply #397 on: August 06, 2016, 08:03:59 PM
I Ran the C.I.A. Now I’m Endorsing Hillary Clinton.
Michael J. Morell

During a 33-year career at the Central Intelligence Agency, I served presidents of both parties — three Republicans and three Democrats. I was at President George W. Bush’s side when we were attacked on Sept. 11; as deputy director of the agency, I was with President Obama when we killed Osama bin Laden in 2011.

I am neither a registered Democrat nor a registered Republican. In my 40 years of voting, I have pulled the lever for candidates of both parties. As a government official, I have always been silent about my preference for president.

No longer. On Nov. 8, I will vote for Hillary Clinton. Between now and then, I will do everything I can to ensure that she is elected as our 45th president.

Two strongly held beliefs have brought me to this decision. First, Mrs. Clinton is highly qualified to be commander in chief. I trust she will deliver on the most important duty of a president — keeping our nation safe. Second, Donald J. Trump is not only unqualified for the job, but he may well pose a threat to our national security.

I spent four years working with Mrs. Clinton when she was secretary of state, most often in the White House Situation Room. In these critically important meetings, I found her to be prepared, detail-oriented, thoughtful, inquisitive and willing to change her mind if presented with a compelling argument.

I also saw the secretary’s commitment to our nation’s security; her belief that America is an exceptional nation that must lead in the world for the country to remain secure and prosperous; her understanding that diplomacy can be effective only if the country is perceived as willing and able to use force if necessary; and, most important, her capacity to make the most difficult decision of all — whether to put young American women and men in harm’s way.

Mrs. Clinton was an early advocate of the raid that brought Bin Laden to justice, in opposition to some of her most important colleagues on the National Security Council. During the early debates about how we should respond to the Syrian civil war, she was a strong proponent of a more aggressive approach, one that might have prevented the Islamic State from gaining a foothold in Syria.

I never saw her bring politics into the Situation Room. In fact, I saw the opposite. When some wanted to delay the Bin Laden raid by one day because the White House Correspondents Dinner might be disrupted, she said, “Screw the White House Correspondents Dinner.”

In sharp contrast to Mrs. Clinton, Mr. Trump has no experience on national security. Even more important, the character traits he has exhibited during the primary season suggest he would be a poor, even dangerous, commander in chief.

These traits include his obvious need for self-aggrandizement, his overreaction to perceived slights, his tendency to make decisions based on intuition, his refusal to change his views based on new information, his routine carelessness with the facts, his unwillingness to listen to others and his lack of respect for the rule of law.

The dangers that flow from Mr. Trump’s character are not just risks that would emerge if he became president. It is already damaging our national security.

President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia was a career intelligence officer, trained to identify vulnerabilities in an individual and to exploit them. That is exactly what he did early in the primaries. Mr. Putin played upon Mr. Trump’s vulnerabilities by complimenting him. He responded just as Mr. Putin had calculated.

Mr. Putin is a great leader, Mr. Trump says, ignoring that he has killed and jailed journalists and political opponents, has invaded two of his neighbors and is driving his economy to ruin. Mr. Trump has also taken policy positions consistent with Russian, not American, interests — endorsing Russian espionage against the United States, supporting Russia’s annexation of Crimea and giving a green light to a possible Russian invasion of the Baltic States.

In the intelligence business, we would say that Mr. Putin had recruited Mr. Trump as an unwitting agent of the Russian Federation.

Mr. Trump has also undermined security with his call for barring Muslims from entering the country. This position, which so clearly contradicts the foundational values of our nation, plays into the hands of the jihadist narrative that our fight against terrorism is a war between religions.

In fact, many Muslim Americans play critical roles in protecting our country, including the man, whom I cannot identify, who ran the C.I.A.’s Counterterrorism Center for nearly a decade and who I believe is most responsible for keeping America safe since the Sept. 11 attacks.

My training as an intelligence officer taught me to call it as I see it. This is what I did for the C.I.A. This is what I am doing now. Our nation will be much safer with Hillary Clinton as president.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/05/opinion/campaign-stops/i-ran-the-cia-now-im-endorsing-hillary-clinton.html



Offline Gina Marie

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Reply #398 on: August 07, 2016, 09:49:19 PM
Let's not forget that California did the same thing.  Now they have a big surplus and the economy is booming.

FUCKIN A!



Offline Piper-Dreams

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Reply #399 on: August 07, 2016, 10:04:08 PM
Joan, why do you have to post in yellow? Don't you know how obnoxious that color is?