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The Clinton Thread: All things Hillary

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ChirpingGirl

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Reply #320 on: July 15, 2016, 11:54:35 PM
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Even here on KB, pro-Clinton posters seem to hold her chief selling point as "she's not Trump."

I find the whole "vote for the least worst candidate" thing very depressing.


I'm not voting for either of them. I don't want to be responsible for whatever they do. I always have this fear that what if my vote was the vote that got the person who starts world war 3 into office?


You are within your rights to think this way. But the opposite is what if the vote you did not cast results in the election of the person who starts WW 3.

If I were an American, I think I would be looking for "None of the Above" on the presidential ballot. My observations over the past 30 years suggests to me that Hillary is corrupt and Trump is a jackass.

I wouldn't have voted for either for a reason though. My conscience would still be clear.



Offline herschel

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Reply #321 on: July 16, 2016, 12:50:21 AM
And as for my voting or failing to vote contributing to  World War Three, that argument sounds good in theory, if you assume that we the people have any responsibility in the matter. The fact is that the citizenry have no power at all in our fascist corporatocracy, other than the power to be milked of our savings, those fortunate few of us who have any money in the bank or sewn into our mattress. It doesn't matter what crooks you elect, the military-industrial complex will have any war they want anywhere they want, as they have been doing for the last hundred plus years.

National politics is strictly show biz, a grand charade put on by the establishment to entertain the hoi polloi who guzzle the kool-aid.



Offline JBRG

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Reply #322 on: July 16, 2016, 07:21:39 PM
President Bartlett (Martin Sheen) said it best. In the US, you don't live in a democracy. In a democracy, everybody has a say and a hand in making decisions of state. The US is a republic and as such the electorate choses those who make the decisions.

Once the election is complete, the idea the individuals have a say goes out the window.

That is all.


Offline MissBarbara

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Reply #323 on: July 16, 2016, 07:57:14 PM

President Bartlett (Martin Sheen) said it best. In the US, you don't live in a democracy. In a democracy, everybody has a say and a hand in making decisions of state. The US is a republic and as such the electorate choses those who make the decisions.

Once the election is complete, the idea the individuals have a say goes out the window.



Setting aside the fact that it's fiction, I recall that episode, and that wasn't President Bartlett's point. His point was that, in a Republic, you only have a voice or a choice if you actually go out and exercise your right to vote.

And once the election is complete, individuals do have a say, often a strong say. Witness, to take just one example, the omnipresence of opinion polls, and the way they're obsessively analyzed and digested -- and followed -- by politicians. And most politicians are beholden to their constituents, and frequently base their actions, and even their positions and opinions, on the desires of the majority of their constituents.

To my mind, "none of the above," is a cop out, a cynical abdication of one's duties and rights as a citizen.






"Sometimes the best things in life are a hot girl and a cold beer."



Bexy

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Reply #324 on: July 16, 2016, 09:00:34 PM
Well, I don't like either candidate either, but the reasons I see Trump as the lesser of two evils is:

With Hillary you're certain you're just getting more of the globalist USA-EU-NATO cartel shit. Delivering weapons to the Middle East while putting up a show of pretending to fight Daesh, and continuous antagonisation of Russia. She's in bed with the Saudis, with Monsanto, and basically everyone who's fucking up the planet.

With Trump you're not certain of any of the above. If one can believe what he says -and ignore the bullfrog show-, he sounds like a classic mercantillist, who wants to stay far away from the globalist maffia. He wants to restore relations with Russia and join Russia in wiping out Daesh (which really can be done in a number of days for the biggest camps IMO) and butt the fuck out of the Middle East. I have no doubt though that he's a ruthless business man.

Of course, what goes on behind the curtains, one can never know. Maybe Trump is just the anti-Hillary, the paid underdog they threw into the show and who unexpectedly got a huge following.

The above and well...Hillary scares the shit out of me way more than Trump. I just get this feeling that Hillary won't even blink when signing off the secret kill list. That's just my gut speaking.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2016, 09:09:42 PM by Bexy »



Offline Lois

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Reply #325 on: July 16, 2016, 10:26:14 PM
That is certainly the best argument against Hillary yet, and your feelings regarding Hillary are closest to mine.

I certainly don't want a "hawk" in the White House.  I want an anti-interventionist candidate.



Offline joan1984

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Reply #326 on: July 18, 2016, 04:45:39 PM

Some people are like the 'slinky'. Not really good for much,
but they bring a smile to your face as they fall down stairs.


Offline Lois

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Reply #327 on: July 18, 2016, 11:35:01 PM
Another look at Hillary Clinton.  Many of our opinions have been formed by right-wing spin doctors over the last 25 years.  But who is she really?

Thinking About Hillary — A Plea for Reason
by Michael Arnovitz

“In the course of a single conversation, I have been assured that Hillary is cunning and manipulative but also crass, clueless, and stunningly impolitic; that she is a hopelessly woolly-headed do-gooder and, at heart, a hardball litigator; that she is a base opportunist and a zealot convinced that God is on her side. What emerges is a cultural inventory of villainy rather than a plausible depiction of an actual person.” — Henry Louis Gates

The quote above comes from a fascinating article called “Hating Hillary”, written by Gates for the New Yorker in 1996. Even now, 20 years after it was first published, it’s a fascinating and impressive piece, and if you have a few spare moments I strongly recommend it to you.

And I’m reading pieces like this because now that Hillary has (essentially if not officially) won the Democratic Primary, I have become increasingly fascinated by the way so many people react to her. In truth, I sometimes think that I find that as interesting as Hillary herself. And I can’t help but notice that many of the reactions she receives seem to reflect what Gates referred to as “a cultural inventory of villainy” rather than any realistic assessment of who she really is and what she has really done.

To conservatives she is a radical left-wing insurgent who has on multiple occasions been compared to Mikhail Suslov, the Soviet Kremlin’s long-time Chief of Ideology. To many progressives (you know who you are), she is a Republican fox in Democratic sheep’s clothing, a shill for Wall Street who doesn’t give a damn about the working class. The fact that these views could not possibly apply to the same person does not seem to give either side pause. Hillary haters on the right and the left seem perfectly happy to maintain their mutually incompatible delusions about why she is awful. The only thing both teams seem to share is the insistence that Hillary is a Machiavellian conspirator and implacable liar, unworthy of society’s trust.

And this claim of unabated mendacity is particularly interesting, because while it is not the oldest defamation aimed at Hillary, it is the one that most effortlessly glides across partisan lines. Indeed, for a surprisingly large percentage of the electorate, the claim that Hillary is innately dishonest is simply accepted as a given. It is an accusation and conviction so ingrained in the conversation about her that any attempt to even question it is often met with shock. And yet here’s the thing: it’s not actually true. Politifact, the Pulitzer prize-winning fact-checking project, determined for example that Hillary was actually the most truthful candidate (of either Party) in the 2016 election season. And in general Politifact has determined that Hillary is more honest than most (but not all) politicians they have tracked over the years.

Also instructive is Jill Abramson’s recent piece in the Guardian. Abramson, a former reporter for the Wall Street Journal as well as former Executive Editor of the New York Times, had this to say about Hillary’s honesty: “As an editor I’ve launched investigations into her business dealings, her fundraising, her foundation and her marriage. As a reporter my stories stretch back to Whitewater. I’m not a favorite in Hillaryland. That makes what I want to say next surprising. Hillary Clinton is fundamentally honest and trustworthy.”

Notice how Abramson uses the word “surprising”? She’s obviously doing that for our benefit, because she knows that many readers will be astonished at the very thought of Hillary being “fundamentally honest”. But why? In my opinion we need to go back to the time of Whitewater in order to answer that question.

In January of 1996, while Whitewater investigations were underway but unfinished, conservative writer William Safire wrote a scathing and now-famous essay about Hillary Clinton entitled, “Blizzard of Lies”. In the piece he called her a “congenital liar”, and accused her of forcing her friends and subordinates into a “web of deceit”. He insisted (without any apparent evidence) that she took bribes, evaded taxes, forced her own attorneys to perjure themselves, “bamboozled” bank regulators, and was actively involved in criminal enterprises that defrauded the government of millions of dollars. He ended the piece by stating that, “She had good reasons to lie; she is in the longtime habit of lying; and she has never been called to account for lying herself or in suborning lying in her aides and friends.”

I am no political historian, but as far as I can tell this short essay was the birth of the “Hillary is a Liar” meme. Now to be clear, most conservatives already strongly disliked her. They had been upset with her for some time because she had refused to play the traditional First Lady role. And they were horrified by her attempt to champion Universal Health coverage. But if you look for the actual reasons people didn’t like her back at that time, you won’t see ongoing accusations of her being “crooked” or a “liar”. Instead, the most common opinion seemed to be that she was a self-righteous leftist who considered anyone with other views to be morally inferior. In short, the prevailing anti-Hillary accusation was not that she was unrelentingly dishonest, but that she was just intolerably smug.

After the Safire piece however, this all changed. Republicans, who learned from Nixon never to let a good propaganda opportunity pass if they could help it, repeated the accusations of mendacity non-stop to anyone who would broadcast or print them. And if you doubt the staying power of Safire’s piece, type the phrase “congenital liar” into a Google search along with “Hillary Clinton” and see what happens. To this day, that exact phrase is still proudly used by many on the right. This, even though Safire was eventually proven wrong about everything he had written. And despite the fact that he stated himself that he would have to “eat crow” if she were ever cleared, Safire never apologized or even acknowledged his many errors once that happened. Because as we all know, swift-boating means never having to say you’re sorry.

But while conservative propaganda and lies are a constant in “Hillaryland”, if we look at Hillary’s career, and the negative attacks so often aimed at her, it seems clear that more than just political machinations are at play. My current conviction is that the main fuel that powers the anti-Hillary crowd is sexism. And yes I’m serious. So go ahead and roll your eyes. Get it over with. But I think the evidence supports my view, and I’ve seen no other plausible explanation. And just to be clear, I don’t think it’s ONLY sexism. But I do think that this is the primary force that has generated and maintained most of the negative narratives about Hillary.

Of course accusations of sexism always bump up against several serious impediments:

1) Almost nobody will admit to it. Conservatives decided long ago that all such accusations (sexism, racism, homophobia, etc) are standard liberal bullshit whose only real intent is to shut down debate, and liberals tend to possess a sense of moral entitlement which leads them to consider themselves automatically exempt from all such accusations. (Side note: if you did roll your eyes above, there’s a good chance I’m describing you here. Sorry.)

2) Overt sexism is significantly more likely to be tolerated in our society than overt racism. It is a low-risk form of bigotry and discrimination that rarely damages professional or political careers. Because of this, far fewer people worry about crossing that line.

3) We have formed a sort of collective blindness to sexism that allows us to pretend that we are on top of the issue while simultaneously ignoring the many ways in which it actually permeates our society. (Side note 2: There’s a reason it’s called a “glass” ceiling.)

4) Unlike men, women who make demands are still often seen as unfeminine and inappropriately aggressive, bordering on deviant. And if the people most aggressively pushing against the glass ceiling are “broken” or “deviant”, it’s easier to justify dismissing both them and their concerns.



So I’ve made a claim. Let’s look at some numbers. Take a look at the image above. On the right side you’ll see a chart. This is a chart of Hillary’s popularity over time. It was put together by Nate Silver, who based it on over 500 high-quality phone surveys dating back to the early 90’s. If we take a look at the polling data, very obvious patterns emerge.

In the early 90’s her polling was great, which was typical for an incoming First Lady. But Hillary had no interest in being a typical First Lady, and soon took charge of one of the most important policy initiatives of the Clinton Presidency: Universal Health Care. If you look at the first large red arrow I have on the graphic, you’ll see that as soon as she did that her negatives skyrocketed. And yes this was before Whitewater. In fact during the ongoing Whitewater investigations her polling improved dramatically, so she actually became significantly MORE popular during that period, not less.

Now take a look at the second arrow. This is where she declared that she was going to run for the Senate. See what happened? She was at one of the most popular periods of her life, but as soon as she declared a run for the Senate her favorables plummeted while her unfavorables rose sharply. Then once she was elected, her scores stabilized and even improved. Now look at the third arrow. Nearly exactly at the same time she withdrew from the Presidential race her favorables took off again, rising to levels that many considered remarkable. (Or are we pretending not to remember that until very recently Hillary was one of the most popular politicians in the country?) In fact the image on the left of the graph is part of the “bad-ass Hillary” meme that started during this time. And her polling stayed high right up until she decided to run for President again. Her numbers since then are not on this particular graph, but I think we all know what happened to them.

So what do we see in this data? What I see is that the public view of Hillary Clinton does not seem to be correlated to “scandals” or issues of character or whether she murdered Vince Foster. No, the one thing that seems to most negatively and consistently affect public perception of Hillary is any attempt by her to seek power. Once she actually has that power her polls go up again. But whenever she asks for it her numbers drop like a manhole cover.

And in fact I started thinking more about this after reading an article that Sady Doyle wrote for Quartz back in February. The title of the piece was, “America loves women like Hillary Clinton — as long as they’re not asking for a promotion.” In the article Ms. Doyle asserted that, “The wild difference between the way we talk about Clinton when she campaigns and the way we talk about her when she’s in office can’t be explained as ordinary political mud-slinging. Rather, the predictable swings of public opinion reveal Americans’ continued prejudice against women caught in the act of asking for power…”

And yes this is the kind of statement that many people will find reflexively annoying. But that doesn’t make it any less true, and the data certainly seems to support it. Even NBC news, looking back over decades of their own polls, stated that, “she’s struggled to stay popular when she’s on the campaign trail.” If this has nothing to do with gender, then wouldn’t the same thing happen to men when they campaign? But it doesn’t. Why not?

So let’s look at the issues people are currently using to disparage Clinton. Let’s consider the issues of dishonesty, scandals, money and Wall Street.

1) Honesty — In terms of honesty, I’ve already addressed that. Hillary is a politician, and like all politicians she is no stranger to “massaging” and/or exaggerating the truth. And yes on occasion she will let loose a whopper. But is she worse than other politicians? As I’ve already discussed, the evidence suggests that she is no worse, and actually better, than most other politicians. Internet videos like the “13 minutes of Hillary lying” appear to be mostly examples of Hillary changing her position over several decades, combined with annoying but typical political behavior. But similar videos of Donald Trump exist showing him doing an even more extreme version of the same thing. Why is he not being accused of this type of mendacity? In fact there is very little dispute that Trump has been SIGNIFICANTLY less honest on the campaign trail than Hillary. According to Politifact he is in fact the least honest candidate they’ve ever analyzed! So if the issue of honesty is really that important, why are so many people (on the right and left) holding Hillary to such an obviously different standard than Trump?

2) Scandals — Webster’s dictionary defines a scandal as, “an occurrence in which people are shocked and upset because of behavior that is morally or legally wrong.” But here’s a question: Are scandals still scandals if nobody actually did anything wrong? And I think that’s a fair question, because Hillary’s political foes love to point out all the times she has been implicated (directly or indirectly) in scandals. Not surprisingly, however, they fail to point out that she has always been cleared of any wrongdoing.
So if she’s always innocent, why then does she find herself caught up in so many scandals? For that answer, perhaps we should look at the Wikipedia definition of scandal, which states, “A scandal can be broadly defined as an accusation or accusations that receive wide exposure. Generally there is a negative effect on the credibility of the person or organization involved.” Notice the important difference? Perhaps the “negative effect on credibility” is not so much the RESULT of these scandals as it is the INTENT of those who create them.

Did you know that Republicans once spent 10 days and 140 hours investigating the Clintons’ use of the White House Christmas Card list? Because that is a real thing that actually happened. As the Atlantic recently pointed out, “No other American politicians — even ones as corrupt as Richard Nixon, or as hated by partisans as George W. Bush — have fostered the creation of a permanent multimillion-dollar cottage industry devoted to attacking them.” (And for an impressive presentation of this issue I highly recommend Hanna Rosin’s piece “Among the Hillary Haters”, also in the Atlantic.)
Compare for example the treatment Hillary is getting due to her private email “scandal” to that of General David Petraeus. Hillary has been accused of hosting a personal email server that “might” have made classified documents less secure, even though the documents in question were not classified as secret at the time she received and/or sent them. (Side note: some government documents receive secret classifications “at birth”, while other can be retroactively classified as secret.) In order for Clinton to have committed a criminal act, she would have had to knowingly and willfully mishandle material that was classified at the time she did so. After months of investigation no one has accused her of doing that, and it doesn’t appear as if anyone will.

General Petraeus on the other hand, while he was Director of the CIA, knowingly gave a writer, who was also his mistress, a series of black books which according to the Justice Department contained, “classified information regarding the identities of covert officers, war strategy, intelligence capabilities and mechanisms, diplomatic discussions quotes and deliberative discussions from high level National Security Council meetings and [Petraeus’] discussions with the president of the United States of America.” Petraeus followed that up by lying to numerous government officials, including FBI agents, about what he had done. And lets not forget that according to the Uniform Code of Military Justice, adultery is itself a court-martial offense. And I remind you that none of this is in dispute. Petraeus admitted to all of it.

Petraeus’ violations were significantly more egregious than anything Clinton is even remotely accused of. And yet Republicans and other Hillary foes are howling about her issue, wearing “Hillary for Prison 2016” t-shirts while insisting that this disqualifies her from public office. Meanwhile even after pleading guilty to his crimes Petraeus continued to be the recipient of fawning sentiments from conservatives. Senator John McCain stated that, “All of us in life make mistakes and the situation now, I hope, can be put behind him…” Politico quoted a former military officer who worked with Petraeus as calling the entire situation “silly”. Prominent Republicans have already made it clear that they would call him back to work in the highest levels of government if they win the Presidency. And some are still attempting to convince him to seek the Presidency himself.

Why is Hillary Clinton being held to such an obviously different standard than Petraeus? Is it really only politics?

3) Money — OK let’s talk about her money. Hillary has a lot of it. And she has earned most of it through well-paid speaking fees. And the idea of getting paid $200,000 or more for a single speech seems so ludicrous to many people that they assume that it simply must be some form of bribery. But the truth is that there is a large, well-established and extremely lucrative industry for speaking and appearance fees. And within that industry many celebrities, sports stars, business leaders and former politicians get paid very well. At her most popular for example, Paris Hilton was being paid as much as $750,000 just to make an appearance. Kylie Jenner was once paid over $100,000 to go to her own birthday party, and to this day Vanilla Ice gets $15,000 simply to show up with his hat turned sideways.

And let’s talk about the more cerebral cousin of the appearance agreement, which is the speaking engagement. Is $200k really that unusual? In fact “All American Speakers”, the agency that represents Clinton, currently represents 135 people whose MINIMUM speaking fee is $200,000. Some of the luminaries that get paid this much include: Guy Fieri, Ang Lee, Cara Delevingne, Chelsea Handler, Elon Musk, Mehmet Oz, Michael Phelps, Nate Berkus, and “Larry the Cable Guy”. And no that last one is not a joke. And if you drop the speaking fee to $100k, the number of people they represent jumps to over 500. At $50,000 the number jumps to over 1,200. And All American Speakers are obviously not the only agency that represents speakers. So there are in fact thousands of people getting paid this kind of money to give a speech.

For millions of Americans struggling to pay their bills, the very idea that someone can make $100,000 or more for just giving a speech or hanging out at a Vegas nightclub is obscene. But as Richard Nixon used to say, “don’t hate the player, hate the game.” Hillary didn’t invent the speaking engagement industry, and she isn’t anywhere near the first person to make a lot of money from it. And while her fees are in the upper range of what speakers make, neither they nor the total amount of money she has made are unusual. It’s just unusual FOR A WOMAN.

And yes, I’m back on that, because I feel compelled to point out that before he ran for President in 2007, Rudy Giuliani was making about $700,000 a month in speaking fees with an average of $270k per speech. It’s estimated that in the 5 years before his run he earned as much as $40 million in speaking fees. Nobody cared, no accusations of impropriety were made, and there was almost no media interest. So why did Giuliani get a pass, while Hillary stands accused of inherent corruption for making less money doing the same thing?

And speaking of corruption, after leaving the Florida governor’s office Jeb Bush made millions of dollars in paid speeches. This includes large sums he collected from a South Korean metals company that reaped over a BILLION dollars in contracts from his brother’s presidential administration. Speaking to an Indian newspaper about this type of thing Bush said, “This is the life of being the brother of the president.” Do you remember reading all about that while Jeb was running for President? I didn’t think so. Jeb got a pass too.

So if this discussion is really about money in politics that’s fine. But I’m going to need someone to explain to me why we only seem to focus on it when the person making the money has a vagina.

4) Wall Street — First things first. No, the majority of the money Clinton has made from speaking fees did not come from Wall Street. In fact it’s not even close. She has given nearly 100 paid speeches since leaving the State Dept., and only 8 were to “Wall Street” banks. Nearly all of her speeches were to organizations like American Camping Association, Ebay, Cisco, Xerox, Cardiovascular Research Foundation, United Fresh Produce Association, International Deli-Dairy-Bakery Association, California Medical Association, A&E Television Networks, Massachusetts Conference for Women, U.S. Green Building Council, National Association of Realtors, American Society of Travel Agents, Gap, National Association of Convenience Stores, the National Association of Chain Drug Stores, Institute of Scrap Recycling Industries, etc.

Corporations and Associations pay large fees for important speakers all of the time. And Hillary got booked fairly often because she is interesting and popular, and because there’s a great deal of status attached to having her speak at an event. Ignoring all of this however, a large contingent of anti-Hillary people continue to insist that all speaker’s fees from Wall Street banks were bribes, and that because of this they “own” her. But by that logic shouldn’t we all be asking what the fuck the American Camping Association is up to?

Also, with the possible exception of one speech given to Deutsche Bank, all of Hillary’s 8 speeches to Wall Street were for a speaking fee of $225,000. That does not even break the top 20 of her highest paid speeches. For example she received over $275,000 each in three speeches she gave to The Vancouver Board of Trade, the Board of Trade of Metropolitan Montreal, and Canada 2020. So apparently Canadians also “own” her. And I don’t know what those nefarious Canadians are up to, but it probably has something to do with goddamn poutine. Which would really piss me off except I just remembered that I kind of like poutine so never mind.

Listen, does Wall Street have influence with Hillary? Grow up, of course they do. Wall Street is one of the key engines of the American economy, and as such has enormous influence with everyone. EVERYONE. Don’t kid yourself on that point. And aside from anything else, she was a 2-term Senator of New York, and this made Wall Street an important corporate member of her constituency. The issue is not influence. The issue is whether or not paid speeches and campaign donations alone are proof of corruption. And they’re not. And the last time I checked there was an important difference between association and guilt, between proof and slander.

And again: why is Hillary being held to a standard that never appears to be applied to her male counterparts? Am I not supposed to notice that a media frenzy has been aimed at Hillary Clinton for accepting speaking fees of $225,000 while Donald Trump has been paid $1.5 MILLION on numerous occasions with hardly a word said about it? Am I supposed to not notice that we are now in an election season in which Donald Trump, a proud scam artist whose involvement in “Trump University” alone is being defined by the New York Attorney General as “straight-up fraud”, is regularly calling Hillary Clinton “Crooked Hillary” and getting away with it?

What the actual fuck is going on here? What’s going on is what we all know, but mostly don’t want to admit: presidential campaigns favor men, and the men who campaign in them are rewarded for those traits perceived as being “manly” — physical size, charisma, forceful personality, assertiveness, boldness and volume. Women who evince those same traits however are usually punished rather than rewarded, and a lot of the negativity aimed at Hillary over the years, especially when she is seeking office, has been due to these underlying biases. There is simply no question that Hillary has for years been on the business end of an unrelenting double standard. And her battle with societal sexism isn’t going to stop because of her success anymore than Obama’s battle with racism stopped once he was elected. These are generational issues, and we are who we are.

And actually, this only makes her victory all the more amazing. And maybe it’s OK if we pause for a moment from the accusations and paranoia and just acknowledge her enormous accomplishments. In the entire history of our nation, only 6 Presidents have also served as Secretary of State. Only 3 have served both as Secretary of State and in Congress. By any objective measure Hillary Clinton is not just the most qualified candidate this season, she’s one of the most qualified people to ever seek the office. The New York Times in endorsing her stated that, “voters have the chance to choose one of the most broadly and deeply qualified presidential candidates in history.” Jonathan Bernstein at Bloomberg stated that, “she is probably the best qualified presidential candidate ever.” Even Marco Rubio, one-time choice of the GOP establishment (and tea-party love-child) stated in a Republican debate that, “If this is a resume contest, Hillary Clinton is going to be the new President of the United States.”

Hillary is nobody’s idea of perfect. Fine. But in my view if a man with her qualifications were running in the Democratic primary, Bernie would have been done before he even started. And if a man with her qualifications had been running for the Republicans, they’d be anointing him the next Reagan while trying to sneak his face onto Mount Rushmore.

Most of the people who hate Hillary when she’s running for office end up liking her just fine once she’s won. And I have every confidence that history will repeat itself again this November. As for myself, I have been watching Presidential elections since Nixon. And never in my life has there been an easier or more obvious choice than now. Trump is not merely a bad choice, he is (as many leading Republicans have already admitted) a catastrophic choice, unfit in every possible way for the office of the Presidency.

As such, I happily voted for Hillary in my primary. And I will proudly vote for her in November. Yes she will disappoint us all on occasion. Who doesn’t? But I think she’s also going to surprise a lot of people. She will fear neither consensus when possible nor ass-kicking when necessary. She will safeguard us from the damage a right-wing Supreme Court would inflict on the nation. She will stand for the rights of women, LGBT Americans, and minorities. She will maintain critical global relationships, and she will react to dangerous situations with the temperament of a seasoned and experienced professional. And in a nation that didn’t even allow women to vote until 1920, she will make history by shattering the very highest glass ceiling, and in doing so forever change the way a generation of young women view their place in our Republic.
She’s going to be a fine President.

I’m with her.

https://thepolicy.us/thinking-about-hillary-a-plea-for-reason-308fce6d187c#.sm8b79bx8



Offline joan1984

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Reply #328 on: July 21, 2016, 10:39:55 PM
Black Lives Matter may have just the right idea this time:

http://www.pri.org/stories/2016-07-20/i-aint-voting-will-black-lives-matter-reject-right-vote

Imagine around the Thanksgiving Table with their parents and grandparents, sharing the impact of being taken for granted for all these years by Democrats, and squandering their votes while changing nothing, finally having an impact.

What a great idea! Might even get the White House lighted in Black... never know... by Thanksgiving, they will have made a difference.

Make America Great Again!

Some people are like the 'slinky'. Not really good for much,
but they bring a smile to your face as they fall down stairs.


Offline Piper-Dreams

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Reply #329 on: July 21, 2016, 11:50:35 PM
I'll bet Joan secretly is voting for Hillary.  ;D



Offline Lois

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Reply #330 on: July 22, 2016, 02:56:29 AM
Yep, she might get paid by Breitbart for posting here, but she's definitely voting for Hillary.

A letter from Chelsea CLinton:

When Republicans repeatedly get on stage at their national convention and toss attack after attack at my mom, calling her things I’d never say in front of my children -- let alone on live TV -- they’re talking about a caricature they’ve imagined, not the woman that I love and respect.   

My mom is compassionate, kind, and hardworking -- when I was growing up, it seemed like she could do anything. She’d spend all day in court litigating on behalf of children and families, then come home and ask me over dinner what I learned in school, what my favorite part of my day was, and what I hoped would happen tomorrow. And then she would sit with me while I did my homework or practiced the piano or worked on my science project.

XXXX, my mom has been fighting for everyday Americans for as long as I can remember. She’s smart, she’s strong, and she never forgets who she is fighting for and why. I can’t wait to vote for her as our next president -- but she needs to know that we’re with her right now.

Thanks,

Chelsea



Offline Elizabeth

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Reply #331 on: July 22, 2016, 03:04:20 AM
Yep, she might get paid by Breitbart for posting here, but she's definitely voting for Hillary.

A letter from Chelsea CLinton:

When Republicans repeatedly get on stage at their national convention and toss attack after attack at my mom, calling her things I’d never say in front of my children -- let alone on live TV -- they’re talking about a caricature they’ve imagined, not the woman that I love and respect.   

My mom is compassionate, kind, and hardworking -- when I was growing up, it seemed like she could do anything. She’d spend all day in court litigating on behalf of children and families, then come home and ask me over dinner what I learned in school, what my favorite part of my day was, and what I hoped would happen tomorrow. And then she would sit with me while I did my homework or practiced the piano or worked on my science project.

XXXX, my mom has been fighting for everyday Americans for as long as I can remember. She’s smart, she’s strong, and she never forgets who she is fighting for and why. I can’t wait to vote for her as our next president -- but she needs to know that we’re with her right now.

Thanks,

Chelsea


I'm not sure how to respond to that letter (although I do think it's great that she sticks up for her mom). I think the first thing that comes to mind is the simple idea that every kid will pretty much stick up for his/ her mom and Chelsea is no different.
So the letter really doesn't say anything that any other kid would / would not say about their mom (the only difference is the last sentence in the letter). But all in all a nice letter about her mom to the public.

Love,
Liz



Offline GEMINIGUY

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Reply #332 on: July 22, 2016, 07:47:45 AM
Liz, this isn't a letter from a child about her mother. Chelsea is a grown woman. If she hated her mom she's write a letter saying so. She doesn't need to make up stuff to get her mom elected.

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Then it's good enough for me" - Adam Ant


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Reply #333 on: July 22, 2016, 02:28:26 PM
Liz, this isn't a letter from a child about her mother. Chelsea is a grown woman. If she hated her mom she's write a letter saying so. She doesn't need to make up stuff to get her mom elected.

You missed my point completely.....
Chelsea is doing what every other kid / person would do for there mom.
Elections  not withstanding, political stumping not withstanding, If you have a Mom and you love her and care for her. As that child (no matter the age) you would "stand up" for your mom. She is no different from any body else.

Love,
Liz



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Reply #334 on: July 22, 2016, 04:40:16 PM
It is still touching.  My mom beat me a lot growing up.  I'd never right such a letter about her.



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Reply #335 on: July 22, 2016, 04:57:20 PM
Thank you Toe, and hugs to you too.

Actually Chelsea's letter contains the kinds of details that Meliana should have given about Trump.  It shows that Hillary is a loving and kind person.

Well, Ivanka did say last night her father believes in "equal pay for equal work," paid family leave time, and "making affordable childcare affordable and accessible for all” if he is elected.  If that's not making stuff up to get your father elected, I don't know what is.  Twitter was on fire during her speech.  I suspect she is still a Dem.

Oh, and she threw in something about taking care of student loan debt also.

https://www.rawstory.com/2016/07/conservatives-freak-out-online-after-ivanka-trump-hacks-rnc-with-wage-gap-myth/

Cool, maybe Hillary will name her First Lady if Bill does not want the job.



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Reply #336 on: July 24, 2016, 07:40:39 PM
Leaked emails (actually emails hacked by some Russian) from the DNC show how they tried to undermine Sanders so as to get him out of the running against Hillary.  Sanders now is calling for the resignation of Wasserman, the head of the DNC. Dirty tricks knows no party affiliation.

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Reply #337 on: July 25, 2016, 02:42:11 AM
Leaked emails (actually emails hacked by some Russian) from the DNC show how they tried to undermine Sanders so as to get him out of the running against Hillary.  Sanders now is calling for the resignation of Wasserman, the head of the DNC. Dirty tricks knows no party affiliation.

The leaks also show no party affiliation when it comes to racist comments when they think no one will see it. "Taco Bowl Engagement" is the latest scandal from the leaks.

The 2 main parties can keep having stuff blow up in their faces Johnson is only a couple % away from getting into the national debates.



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Reply #338 on: July 25, 2016, 07:46:00 AM
Wasserman-Schultz has resigned.  Probably for the best, she was very controversial.

As for Russia providing Wikileaks with certain emails, I have no doubt it was done to help Trump.  Personally I'm not happy that Russia has decided to meddle in our election.

Putin is looking forward to having Trump in office.  Putin is much smarter than Trump, and he's certain to think he can manipulate him to his own ends.



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Reply #339 on: July 25, 2016, 03:40:50 PM
Wasserman-Schultz has resigned.  Probably for the best, she was very controversial.

As for Russia providing Wikileaks with certain emails, I have no doubt it was done to help Trump.  Personally I'm not happy that Russia has decided to meddle in our election.

Putin is looking forward to having Trump in office.  Putin is much smarter than Trump, and he's certain to think he can manipulate him to his own ends.

She resigned but only after she gives the opening and closing remarks at the convention.  Sander's camp still is not happy.

Why would Putin want Trump as our president?  Does he think Hillary would be hard on his incursions in other countries?  Unless he thinks Trump will try to get us out of these unwinnable wars we are in, thus leaving the door open for him to grab territory.

Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds.