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Good Idea, Joan

GEMINIGUY · 1902

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Offline watcher1

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Reply #20 on: May 20, 2015, 01:54:09 AM
One major problem with alcoholated (ethanol) fuels:  A lot of farm and industrial equipment that is over 20 years old cannot tolerate it as it eats carburetors & fuel pumps.   

Not to mention rubber gaskets.  And it isn't just farm and industrial equipment.  Something the ethanol industry never makes readily known.

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Offline redhatlover

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Reply #21 on: May 20, 2015, 02:42:08 PM
One major problem with alcoholated (ethanol) fuels:  A lot of farm and industrial equipment that is over 20 years old cannot tolerate it as it eats carburetors & fuel pumps.   

Not to mention rubber gaskets.  And it isn't just farm and industrial equipment.  Something the ethanol industry never makes readily known.


Basically any engine built between 1945 and 1990.  The manufacturers had no idea that anyone would add alcohol to gasoline at that time.

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Offline Lois

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Reply #22 on: May 20, 2015, 04:53:29 PM
Gasoline has problems all its own as well.  Burning it adds to CO2 in the atmosphere, a major cause of global warming.  Refining oil to create gasoline also results in lots of toxic byproducts.

Also, much of of our oil comes from countries with repressive regimes that support jihadist religious factions.  Remember 9-11?  Those were your petro-dollars at work.

We've found a way to use fracking to get more natural gas from our own ground, but when fracking goes awry the result is polluted groundwater.  Furthermore, no one seems to be rushing to make cars that run on natural gas.

Oil is also a finite resource.  Some day it will all be gone.  So instead of promoting an economy based on cheap gasoline, we should be developing alternatives.

LOL!  One of the reasons gasoline has been dropping in price is that demand is down.  It seems all those new gasoline efficient cars are helping!



Offline GEMINIGUY

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Reply #23 on: May 20, 2015, 06:40:10 PM
Early in the Spring, the local news announced gas prices will be rising again in this State this Summer, so no gas prices going down here.

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Offline anvil

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Reply #24 on: May 21, 2015, 03:23:05 PM
Gas prices are up, up, and away here too.

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Offline brody

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Reply #25 on: May 21, 2015, 05:26:35 PM
$2.37 a gallon here.  Not great, but not "up up and away."

Great Gordon Gatsby!
At $2.37/gal, that's a buck per gallon less than I paid yesterday for the cheap grade at the cheap station!  And LA's even worse--up around $3.90/gal.



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Reply #26 on: May 21, 2015, 06:39:17 PM
The oil companies are stupid Brody.

They know they have to get theirs before California slides into the Ocean!

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Offline brody

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Reply #27 on: May 21, 2015, 06:47:41 PM
The oil companies are stupid Brody.

They know they have to get theirs before California slides into the Ocean!

Boy!  Wouldn't that cause a major environmental hazard!?  :emot_weird:



Offline Elizabeth

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Reply #28 on: May 21, 2015, 06:49:15 PM
The oil companies are stupid Brody.

They know they have to get theirs before California slides into the Ocean!

Boy!  Wouldn't that cause a major environmental hazard!?  :emot_weird:

NO....But it would sure feed a lot of Sharks, "And" I imagine keep you busy beyond belief.
 :D
Love,
Liz



IdleBoast

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Reply #29 on: May 21, 2015, 07:12:48 PM
Regarding ethanol vs petroleum spirits...

Henry Ford designed his first engines to run on the owner's choice of methanol, ethanol or gasoline, whichever was locally available.  Gasoline became the standard fuel only after the oil industry simultaneously drove down prices and increased availability.



Offline joan1984

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Reply #30 on: May 21, 2015, 08:48:48 PM
Henry Ford had it right, then and now!

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IdleBoast

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Reply #31 on: May 21, 2015, 10:23:40 PM
Regarding ethanol vs petroleum spirits...

Henry Ford designed his first engines to run on the owner's choice of methanol, ethanol or gasoline, whichever was locally available.  Gasoline became the standard fuel only after the oil industry simultaneously drove down prices and increased availability.


That's actually not true, and another crazy invention of the Internet.  Henry Ford did not design his cars, including the Model T, to run on anything other than gasoline.

Read the owner's handbook from any year production year Ford. It tells you what type of fuel must be used. GASOLINE.

From the original 1903 Ford brochure:

Gasoline Motors are the only efficient, practical and economical motors yet discovered for propelling automobiles.

Gasoline is cheap, it is obtainable wherever you go; enough can be carried in small compass to do for long distances. It generates most horse power for least money and take it all in all, is very much the safest, most practical and most convenient motive power that can be used.


http://www.mtfca.com/books/1903-4.htm

Company brochures, especially those written before Trades Description Acts came into force, are not always a good source of accurate data.  Given that 1903-4 were the early days of Prohibition, mentioning alcohol in your literature would be a good way to lose sales in several states.

Quote
Powered by a 2.9-litre, four-cylinder engine with a two-speed transmission, the Model T was simple and reliable, but surprisingly fast for its day. Top speed was around 45mph, with fuel economy of around 40mpg depending on how the car was driven. It was originally designed to run on bio ethanol, but the decreasing cost of oil (and US prohibition) meant that most were run on oil-derived petrol.

Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/2753506/Ford-Model-T-reaches-100.html

The engine could also run on kerosene, a fuel restricted these days to jets, some rockets, and lanterns.

Ford is alleged to have said "There's enough alcohol in one year's yield of an acre of potatoes to drive the machinery necessary to cultivate the fields for one hundred years."





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Reply #32 on: May 21, 2015, 10:41:23 PM
Only for the fish.

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Offline Katiebee

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Reply #33 on: May 21, 2015, 10:42:03 PM
The oil companies are stupid Brody.

They know they have to get theirs before California slides into the Ocean!

Boy!  Wouldn't that cause a major environmental hazard!?  :emot_weird:

NO....But it would sure feed a lot of Sharks, "And" I imagine keep you busy beyond belief.
 :D
Love,
Liz


There are three kinds of people in the world. Those who can count, and those who can't.


IdleBoast

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Reply #34 on: May 21, 2015, 11:42:05 PM
National Prohibition came into force in 1920, but the campaign started in the 1800s, and several states had their own laws in place decades before the national law.

Still, you're right, it's bootless to argue the history here - it's the future of fuel that's important.

Whether people like the idea or not, something is going to have to replace gasoline in the foreseeable future, and at the moment the most viable option is some form of biofuel.

Bio-ethanol, as has been pointed out already, has issues because it displaces food production.  Methanol, however, can be produced from the waste of crops (cereal stems, leaves, branches etc), so food production is supplemented, not displaced, and methane is easily produced from animal wastes and landfill sites.

In my own area, a number of pig and chicken farmers are net electricity producers, purely because they flush their animal sheds into a tank, and pump the fermentation gases into generators, and we have a history in the UK of re-tuning petrol cars to run on methane (in fact, the current UK speed record for a production bus is held by one running on bio-methane).
« Last Edit: May 22, 2015, 11:12:42 PM by IdleBoast »



Offline Elizabeth

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Reply #35 on: May 21, 2015, 11:45:50 PM
The M35A1 -- 2-1/2 ton truck is a multi-fuel vehicle.
It will run on Gas or Diesel and if necessary both can be mixed in the trucks fuel tank.
 :D
Love,
Liz



Offline watcher1

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Reply #36 on: May 22, 2015, 03:33:33 PM
The M35A1 -- 2-1/2 ton truck is a multi-fuel vehicle.
It will run on Gas or Diesel and if necessary both can be mixed in the trucks fuel tank.
 :D
Love,
Liz


Some versions of the Land Rovers that are sold in Africa can run on a few other liquids besides gasoline.

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