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Catholic Church Says Its Victims Should Get Nothing And Like It

Athos_131 · 1779

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Offline Athos_131

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« Last Edit: March 12, 2015, 03:00:26 PM by Athos_131 »

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Offline Dgan

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Somewhere some government needs to step up and prosecute the overgrown tax-free for-profit Ponzi scheme known as religion.

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Offline Elizabeth

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LOL.....Surprised.??...I'm Not.
The Church is against anything that would / will cost them money.
What really should have been done is "jail time" for the pedophiles and the higher ups for covering it up (and I'm not talking just a few months either). I really hope the Church has to dig deep in it's pockets to pay the victims (In the long run after paying once, I doubt they will let it happen again so as to not have to pay anyone ever again). Using religion as an excuse for getting out of paying compensation to victims of crimes (again committed by the clergy themselves) is just plain "bullshit".

Love,
Liz



Offline joan1984

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  Maybe the victims could be paid off in scholarships to Penn State.

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but they bring a smile to your face as they fall down stairs.


Offline Athos_131

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#BlackLivesMatter
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Offline MissBarbara

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http://www.patheos.com/blogs/paperbacktheology/2012/01/fleecing-the-flock-a-snapshot-of-americas-richest-pastors.html


I feel compelled to point out that though the subject of this thread is the Catholic Church, not a single one of those listed in this article is Catholic.





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Offline MissBarbara

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LOL.....Surprised.??...I'm Not.

The Church is against anything that would / will cost them money.

What really should have been done is "jail time" for the pedophiles and the higher ups for covering it up (and I'm not talking just a few months either).

I really hope the Church has to dig deep in it's pockets to pay the victims (In the long run after paying once, I doubt they will let it happen again so as to not have to pay anyone ever again).

Using religion as an excuse for getting out of paying compensation to victims of crimes (again committed by the clergy themselves) is just plain "bullshit".

Love,
Liz


Your opinion is your own, and I respect it.

But your facts are wrong, wrong, wrong.

If the Church is "against anything that would cost them money," then why does the Church spend billions -- yes, billions -- of dollars helping the poor, the afflicted, the homeless, refugees, disaster victims, those suffering political persecution, and on and on and on?

The Church has already "dug deep in it's [sic] pockets" to compensate victims of sexual abuse by its members, to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars, and that's in the U.S. alone.

I agree that "using religion as an excuse for getting out of paying compensation to victims of crimes (again committed by the clergy themselves) is just plain "bullshit." But you clearly did not read the article (as much of a poorly written hatchet-job that it is). This is one, sole example of one single incident (and, even then, the author shades the truth with propaganda). And yet you feel confident moving from a single incident to a general condemnation of the entire body.

There's a word for that: bigotry.





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Offline Elizabeth

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LOL.....Surprised.??...I'm Not.

The Church is against anything that would / will cost them money.

What really should have been done is "jail time" for the pedophiles and the higher ups for covering it up (and I'm not talking just a few months either).

I really hope the Church has to dig deep in it's pockets to pay the victims (In the long run after paying once, I doubt they will let it happen again so as to not have to pay anyone ever again).

Using religion as an excuse for getting out of paying compensation to victims of crimes (again committed by the clergy themselves) is just plain "bullshit".

Love,
Liz


Your opinion is your own, and I respect it.

But your facts are wrong, wrong, wrong.

If the Church is "against anything that would cost them money," then why does the Church spend billions -- yes, billions -- of dollars helping the poor, the afflicted, the homeless, refugees, disaster victims, those suffering political persecution, and on and on and on?

The Church has already "dug deep in it's [sic] pockets" to compensate victims of sexual abuse by its members, to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars, and that's in the U.S. alone.

I agree that "using religion as an excuse for getting out of paying compensation to victims of crimes (again committed by the clergy themselves) is just plain "bullshit." But you clearly did not read the article (as much of a poorly written hatchet-job that it is). This is one, sole example of one single incident (and, even then, the author shades the truth with propaganda). And yet you feel confident moving from a single incident to a general condemnation of the entire body.

There's a word for that: bigotry.





Bigotry..??....Not at all.
Distain..?? ...Absolutely, especially for an instution that goes out of it's way to make sure all it's member's keep the money following in.

Love,
Liz



Offline MissBarbara

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LOL.....Surprised.??...I'm Not.

The Church is against anything that would / will cost them money.

What really should have been done is "jail time" for the pedophiles and the higher ups for covering it up (and I'm not talking just a few months either).

I really hope the Church has to dig deep in it's pockets to pay the victims (In the long run after paying once, I doubt they will let it happen again so as to not have to pay anyone ever again).

Using religion as an excuse for getting out of paying compensation to victims of crimes (again committed by the clergy themselves) is just plain "bullshit".

Love,
Liz


Your opinion is your own, and I respect it.

But your facts are wrong, wrong, wrong.

If the Church is "against anything that would cost them money," then why does the Church spend billions -- yes, billions -- of dollars helping the poor, the afflicted, the homeless, refugees, disaster victims, those suffering political persecution, and on and on and on?

The Church has already "dug deep in it's [sic] pockets" to compensate victims of sexual abuse by its members, to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars, and that's in the U.S. alone.

I agree that "using religion as an excuse for getting out of paying compensation to victims of crimes (again committed by the clergy themselves) is just plain "bullshit." But you clearly did not read the article (as much of a poorly written hatchet-job that it is). This is one, sole example of one single incident (and, even then, the author shades the truth with propaganda). And yet you feel confident moving from a single incident to a general condemnation of the entire body.

There's a word for that: bigotry.


Bigotry..??....Not at all.

Distain..?? ...Absolutely, especially for an instution that goes out of it's way to make sure all it's member's keep the money following in.

Love,
Liz


Moving from a single negative example to a general condemnation, or even a general sense of disdain, is the textbook definition of bigotry.

Yes, the Catholic Church, like every single nonprofit organization on the planet, is "an instution that goes out of it's way to make sure all it's member's keep the money following in." That's what nonprofits do: They maximize their fundraising efforts so that they can provide funds, as well as other kinds of assistance, to worthy causes.

In what was is that disdainful?






"Sometimes the best things in life are a hot girl and a cold beer."



Offline Elizabeth

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Let me put this closer to home (for me).
My parents could not get married because my mother was not fully paid up in church dues (approx 3,800 dollars according to her).
They got married in a Protestant Church (My Dad's).
Mixed Marriage was another issue that reared it's ugly head.
My grandmother was also behind in her church dues (tighes if you wish) and could not be buried in a Catholic Cemetary until it was paid up.
The Catholic Church uses threats of Religious damnation to extract money from it's members not in "good standing", and that's not right.
By the way, I'm not Catholic.
______________________________________
The church has a track record of trying to affect policy of both local and national Government.
______________________________________

Love,
Liz



snowm

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Let me put this closer to home (for me).
My parents could not get married because my mother was not fully paid up in church dues (approx 3,800 dollars according to her).
They got married in a Protestant Church (My Dad's).
Mixed Marriage was another issue that reared it's ugly head.
My grandmother was also behind in her church dues (tighes if you wish) and could not be buried in a Catholic Cemetary until it was paid up.
The Catholic Church uses threats of Religious damnation to extract money from it's members not in "good standing", and that's not right.
By the way, I'm not Catholic.
______________________________________
The church has a track record of trying to affect policy of both local and national Government.
______________________________________

Love,
Liz


What year did all this happen Liz? This certainly happened more back in the day and today in smaller rural areas but it is not the status quo.



Offline Elizabeth

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Hi Snow....
My Parents got married in 1980.
My Grandmother Died before I was born (1976).
I was raised in Rural America (Farming Communities).

Love,
Liz



Offline Elizabeth

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Actually The way mom tells it, she just decided to stop titheing the Church.
I guess she was like (maybe) 10 years behind....(I don't really know).

Love,
Liz



Offline joan1984

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I am a Roman Catholic, born, raised, many many years in Catholic schools from Nursery thru University Graduation. Strict is not how I would describe my status at present.

My family received the envelopes every month from the Parish - Diocese, and while there were times our family was asked to "pledge" a certain amount for this fund or that fund of the local Parish, or even the Diocese, there was never any penalty proposed, threatened or applied, so far as I am aware, and I would have been aware. Same for my Parents, and Grand Parents. A suitable amount was suggested and that was the end of it.

Not saying a pledge may not be handled with less grace in some places than in the greater Philadelphia, PA area, or the Washington, DC area, just saying that was never my experience.

There was a good deal of self pressure that was applied, and I am not aware of any pledge our family made that we did not fulfill... maybe even with some struggle at times to 'keep up', but no threat more severe than seeing ones name printed in a church bulletin with an amount next to it, was ever presented.

My parents and grand parents graves were paid for long ago, may my Mom and Grand Parents rest in peace. I remember my Grandfather grumbling about the cost of a Catholic cemetery... saying he wanted a deal, "give me the spot that floods regularly" kind of half joking, rather than the grave site on the hill, near the tree, that they always would show him on a visit to St. Joseph's Cemetery. As city people, a great expanse of grass and view was never so important.

The funerals for both grandparents were paid for at their time, both for the Church services and the funeral director's use of the church, and their services, embalming, copies of death certificates, and such.
Not inexpensive. Maybe someone with a prearranged funeral package would incur a different type of 'church debt' than did we, buy i presume such a prepaid package would be with the funeral director, and not the local church.

In any event, my Dad and I agree we will opt for cremation, ashes to be scattered someplace without a cost for that service, save the trip for the survivor to handle the task. Any church service will be paid for at the time, and the altar servers tipped accordingly.

The Church remains obtuse when it comes to intermarriage, and local rules may apply that seem asinine (I remember a cousin trying to arrange a wedding on a beach in HI, who gave up on a Catholic priest and found a suitable licensed parson via the concierge at the hotel, to get the wedding she wanted. Ukuleles and the whole nine yards...

Having said that, crimes committed by clergy should be paid for by the clergy with jail time, and courts will decree, or families may agree to some compensation for what the Church bureaucracy knew or should have known, as to those particular clergy being in a position to abuse anyone.

The Church should be in the same position as any litigant, and if the agreed upon, or court ordered payments are not made, then whatever legal system means of collection there are must apply.

Nothing less, and nothing more, in my opinion.


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but they bring a smile to your face as they fall down stairs.


Offline Athos_131

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Woah.

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Offline Dgan

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http://www.wbir.com/story/news/2015/03/12/letter-church-member-took-360000-in-diabolically--based-scheme/70232350/


I wonder if they should just say it's against their religion to pay restitution or be tried for it, after all, it's a church thing...

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Offline Scotty

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  Maybe the victims could be paid off in scholarships to Penn State.
gotta luva sense of humor



snowm

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Hi Snow....
My Parents got married in 1980.
My Grandmother Died before I was born (1976).
I was raised in Rural America (Farming Communities).

Love,
Liz


Yeah it is the rural thing that got em. I am far far far removed from the church but I have always heard these horror stories and they are one of the things that pushed me away long time ago. Just like any other 'pay to play' schemes out there...one would think religious entities would be above it.




Offline MissBarbara

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Let me put this closer to home (for me).
My parents could not get married because my mother was not fully paid up in church dues (approx 3,800 dollars according to her).
They got married in a Protestant Church (My Dad's).
Mixed Marriage was another issue that reared it's ugly head.
My grandmother was also behind in her church dues (tighes if you wish) and could not be buried in a Catholic Cemetary until it was paid up.
The Catholic Church uses threats of Religious damnation to extract money from it's members not in "good standing", and that's not right.
By the way, I'm not Catholic.


I have been a practicing Catholic for most of my 34 years, and I'm very well read about the Catholic Church, especially the Church in the U.S.

And I can assure you that your mother's situation, which is undeniably tragic, is highly anomalous, and likely the result of a misinformed or misguided pastor, and in no way a general phenomenon.

By 1980, mixed marriages -- a marriage between a Catholic and a person of another person, performed in a Catholic Church or in another place, officiated or co-officiated by a Catholic priest -- we both completely legal, and not uncommon. If this particular pastor forbade it, then he was in error, and not in keeping with Church practice or praxis. I've been to three mixed marriage ceremonies, one in a Catholic Church, one in a Lutheran Church, and one in a ballroom of a country club co-officiated by a priest and a rabbi. It was a very moving ceremony.

And I've never once heard of tithing -- neither the word nor the concept (giving 10% of your income) -- used in a Catholic context. Not once. And if a pastor would refuse marriage to someone who had not paid off a pledge, he would be wildly (or deliberately) misinformed, and acting out of either ignorance or malice. And the same goes for being refused burial for non-fulfillment of a pledge. They're both highly anomalous situations and in no way representative.

Finally, I've never once -- neither in my personal experience nor in my wide reading -- heard of an example where "The Catholic Church uses threats of Religious damnation to extract money from it's members not in good standing." I've heard examples of evangelical protestant ministers going down that road, but never once a Catholic priest, pastor, bishop, or other official.



______________________________________

The church has a track record of trying to affect policy of both local and national Government.
______________________________________


Some examples are necessary for your assertion to have any validity.

I recall was one incident, leading up to either the 1980 or 1984 presidential election, where an American bishop said something along the lines of, "I can't see how a Catholic in good conscience could vote for a candidate other than Ronald Reagan" (and I'm paraphrasing). He was instantly condemned by both American Catholic officials, and by the Vatican itself.

But I suspect that's not what you are referring to.

Catholic pastors certainly do exhort their parishioners to let their lives and actions be guided by moral and ethical principles, and this can (and does) redound in everything from choosing candidates to support and vote for, to actions by individual Catholics to frame the public debate and influence the passage of legislation.

But, as American citizens, aren't they free to do precisely that, just like every other citizen? Should Catholics, as Catholics, be restrained from participating in public life and the political process? Catholics abound in American political life, and on both sides of the aisle, including the Vice President, Secretary of State, House Minority Leader (and former speaker), six of the nine Supreme Court justices, about 32% of the House and 28% of the Senate, etc., etc. Should they be proscribed from "trying to affect policy of both local and national Government"?




"Sometimes the best things in life are a hot girl and a cold beer."