Good Guy/Gal With A Gun

[joan1984]

..."in situations like that, you can get pretty fearful and tend to clam up and not know what to do.”

This is true, more often than not, even trained soldiers tend to freeze up, or run in their first firefight.  It's a terrifying situation, and there's no predicting how someone will react.  Training helps, but it's not substitute for Experience.

Thank God she was able to shoot the intruder, and save herself!

[psiberzerker]

Thank God she was able to shoot the intruder, and save herself!

You can pray for Divine Intervention, or you can depend on yourself, to defend yourself.  If God was there watching over her, then she wouldn't have been put in that situation in the first place.

That's why "Thoughts and Prayers" don't work.  They're not a Panacea, they're a Placebo.

[joan1984]

Was quoting the News article, and she did survive, got him well.
No word on whether she was a NRA Range Master...

Good she had a gun.

She could have gone all JoeBiden on him, with a shotgun, but he was not worth the extra drywalling. Pistol worked great. Another Trump 2020 Voter, no doubt in my mind.

The intruder will not be as quick to break in, next time, and there will be a next time, unless her shot was fatal this time. He is not worth the time to read the article again to check...

Thank God she was able to shoot the intruder, and save herself!

You can pray for Divine Intervention, or you can depend on yourself, to defend yourself.  If God was there watching over her, then she wouldn't have been put in that situation in the first place.

That's why "Thoughts and Prayers" don't work.  They're not a Panacea, they're a Placebo.

[psiberzerker]

Good she had a gun.

Right, but having a gun isn't enough.  It's not a magical talisman that calls down God to protect you.  You have to be trained with them, and you have to be able to use it in a high stress situation.  A gun doesn't come with those things, you have to do your part.  Otherwise, it might as well be a snow-globe in your purse, or pocket.  It's little more than a paper-weight on it's own.

She could have gone all JoeBiden on him, with a shotgun, but he was not worth the extra drywalling. Pistol worked great. Another Trump 2020 Voter, no doubt in my mind.

Well, that's a relief, as long as there's no question in your mind, despite the fact that you got the wrong vice president.  I'm pretty sure that was Cheney, not Biden.

[joan1984]

"...Well, that's a relief, as long as there's no question in your mind, despite the fact that you got the wrong vice president.  I'm pretty sure that was Cheney, not Biden..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=15&v=wIuk3G9Xixc

[psiberzerker]

Right, but Joe Biden giving home defense advice kinda ignores Dick Cheney going all "Joe Biden" and literally shooting someone in the face with a shotgun.  

Which one is the "Good Guy" in this twisted worldview of your's?  I'm honestly confused, because it sounds like Joe Biden, who you hate, is on your side on this issue.  Not anti-gun.

Between the 2 of them, Dick is known for shooting someone with a shotgun.  Uncle Joe is known for being the one women need to protect themselves from.

[psiberzerker]

If you do a little research.  Go online, and search for "The Ultimate Home Defense Gun."  The vast majority of the blogs, vlogs, and articles generally agree that's a 12 gauge.  (I just add Hearing Protection, because the vast majority skip that part, and I've fired a 12 gauge.  Indoors, and outdoors, hearing protection is definitely required.  For a short-barreled Carbine with a flash supressor, or muzzle-break, too.  I'm pro-gun-Safety.)

Now, if you watch the news, you'll see that the ultimate gun for shooting up a school is a high capacity AR-15.  That's what we're talking about:  Making sure that the guns stay in the good guy's hands, and trying to limit the number of bad guys that can easilly arm themselves to shoot up school children en mass.  

[joan1984]

My point, the one you keep ignoring, is that a shotgun use in a home can result in quite a bit of structural damage, including wallboard and plaster work needed to fix the results. The criminal was not worth the homeowner expending such troubles in cleanup, after the Felon had been dispatched with the gun she had at hand.

Lectures about what you and others may intend when critiquing firearms, in virtually every case and babbling about using proper ear protection while being assaulted, hiding in a closet, clutching her gun, is not welcome, bullshit space grabbing nonsense in this thread. The good guy will not be shooting up any schools, after all. Then s/he would be the 'bad' guy.

Bad guys do not CARE what you think, and are unlikely to follow the lengthly posts of drivel you insist on using to obfuscate the value of being prepared to self defend, in whatever way needed, including use of a firearm at hand.

Lets end this particular back and forth, so I can post another 'good guy' story.

Thank you.

Right, but Joe Biden giving home defense advice kinda ignores Dick Cheney going all "Joe Biden" and literally shooting someone in the face with a shotgun.  

Which one is the "Good Guy" in this twisted worldview of your's?  I'm honestly confused, because it sounds like Joe Biden, who you hate, is on your side on this issue.  Not anti-gun.

Between the 2 of them, Dick is known for shooting someone with a shotgun.  Uncle Joe is known for being the one women need to protect themselves from.

[psiberzerker]

My point, the one you keep ignoring, is that a shotgun use in a home can result in quite a bit of structural damage, including wallboard and plaster work needed to fix the results.

So can a baseball bat.  The reason why most home defense journalists suggest a shotgun is because of Over-Penetration.  Yeah, you punch a 3/4" hole in your wallboard (The diameter of the shot cup) but it doesn't go straight through the wall, and endanger anyone behind it.  Possibly in the next house over, like .223 Remington/5.56 NATO does.  

You're going to have to get out the spackle whether it's a quarter inch hole, or a 3/4 inch hole.  it doesn't really take that much more spackle, which is a hell of a lot cheaper than your neighbor's lives.

You're responsible for breaking Your stuff, but the lethality of a shotgun (If you don't load Deer Slugs) falls off with the distance, and pretty reliably end in your yard.  An untrained shooter, shooting blind, and deaf with a semi-auto assault carbine, is a danger to his neighbors across the street, and all of their stuff too.

Lets end this particular back and forth, so I can post another 'good guy' story.

Find one, find 100.  I'm going to keep talking about gun safety with or without you, because it's important.  By the way, you completely ignored Biden saying TAKE THE SHOTGUN OUTSIDE.  In the video you posted.  

[psiberzerker]

Another advantage to a shotgun is you can get a variety of shells in 12 gauge.  Everything from deer slugs, which as the name suggests can put down a deer, to rock salt, or handloading crayon wax with shot for a lightweight "Safety Slug" that breaks up on impact with a 5/8" wall board.

The thing is, whenever you get a new shotgun, choke, or try out a new load, what you do is take it out on the range, and Pattern it.  For home defense, any given load, in any given shot cup breaks up anywhere from 5-to-15' from the muzzle, and you won't know what the Pattern is, unless you take it out on the range, and Pattern It.

That's the difference between owning a gun, and knowing how to shoot Your Gun:  Time on the range.  Anyone can look up good examples, and bad examples on the internet.  There's about as many good as bad, but to apply it to your home, your self, and your gun, you have to take it out on the range, and practice with it.

It's not going to do a damned thing for you, if you don't do your part.

[RopeFiend]

Here ya go, Joan!  Something ON TOPIC.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ5ORqlmHe8&feature=youtu.be

https://www.wbko.com/content/news/WATCH-Warren-County-Sheriffs-Department-investigating-a-man-shot-in-the-hand-509681681.html

The homeowner took one in the hand, likely from his own pistol.  The perps didn't appear to be injured, more's the pity.

[psiberzerker]

Something ON TOPIC.  

Pretty sure that's Assholes/helmets with a gun.

[joan1984]

Rope Fiend, thank you for the contributions, the one I just saw posted by you, and this one you alerted me about:

https://www.click2houston.com/news/son-shoots-kills-robber-after-family-attacked-in-violent-home-invasion-police-say

Son retrieves his gun, dispatches one
Felon, saves Homeowner, Daughters, Mom
from three criminals. Able to end the attack.

Thank God the gun was there when needed.

"...HOUSTON - Just before midnight Tuesday, a father arrived at home but before he got inside his southwest Houston home, he was confronted by three men wearing masks, according to police.

Officers said the men pistol-whipped the father, 39, and forced him to open the door to his house on Quail Meadow Drive near Braesridge Drive...."

[joan1984]

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/east-price-hill/pd-woman-shoots-ex-boyfriend-trying-to-break-into-her-east-price-hill-home
 
Hamilton County Prosecutor Joe Deters said the woman won't be charged with a crime.

"Thank goodness she had a concealed carry permit and was able to defend herself and her five children," Deters said. "It is hard to image what might have happened to her or her children if she had not been able to protect herself and her family."

[psiberzerker]

"It is hard to image what might have happened to her or her children if she had not been able to protect herself and her family."

6 against one?  It's pretty easy for me to imagine let's say 4 of the kids are old enough to yell, scream, throw things AND call 9-11 if 2 of them are still in Diapers.  Let's just assume that the last 2 are twin babies, and the mother on average has 2 kids a year.  That's still at least an 8, or 9 year old to scream, throw things, and call 9-11 while mommy fights with her ex-boyfriend.  

It's hard for a Cincinatti cop to think of any way for a woman, and her 5 children to defend their home against 1 man, without a Licensed handgun.  

I'm kinda trying to imagine what would happen if he came over with an unlicensed gun after she kicked him out?  It sure was a good thing she had a gun, in the house, with her 5 kids.  It's just strange to me that a police officer, who presumably has responded to Domestic Violence, and gun related incidents, and heard about them from co workers, and studied them at the acadamy, can't think of any other "What if" than she didn't have a gun in the house.  With her 5 kids.

[Katiebee]

That  a large portion of violence against women is from people they know, exes, husbands, boyfriends, it’s  not that they need firearms, we need better men.

[psiberzerker]

I’s not that they need firearms, we need better men.

Well, until we can come up with some better solution to the problem of "Nice guys" that turn violent when spurned, it wouldn't hurt to have some way to protect ourselves from them.  It's not that we need better men so much is some way for the bad ones to admit they're trouble.  Instead of lying, promising the moon and forever, then bailing when they get you pregnant, or turning up later when they don't feel appreciated.

I'm certainly not against women defending themselves, nor denying them the tools to defend themselves with, but in a house with 5 kids, Gun Safety becomes an issue.  Especially after a traumatic event like this.  I'm glad they let her go, but I'm just going to bet there's no follow-up for her family, some of whom may have just learned that a Gun is a solution to their problems.

[Athos_131]

Could an armed teacher be arrested like Parkland cop Scot Peterson?

New questions are emerging about who is responsible for the safety of others during a mass shooting after Tuesday’s arrest of a Broward County Sheriff’s deputy who hid outside during the 2018 Parkland massacre.

The sponsor of this year’s bill which allowed classroom teachers to carry guns said Wednesday it’s possible armed teachers could similarly be on the hook, legally, if they don’t do everything required of them to keep kids safe during a shooting.

“Whether it’s involving a firearm or not, if there’s an employee who did not do everything in their power to protect students in that situation they would be open up to facing those kinds of charges,” Sen. Manny Diaz, R-Hialeah, said. “Now, it’s really up to a prosecutor to find where that line where a person has crossed where (failing one’s) employment duties has to pass into criminal.”

He added that this is a question that needs “clarity,” and that lawmakers plan to revisit the post-Parkland school safety laws for the next several years to continue to make tweaks requested by districts and the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School Public Safety Commission.

The state’s teacher’s union, the Florida Education Association, has opposed the idea of arming teachers in Florida since it was first proposed, arguing more guns in the hands of people who aren’t law enforcement make schools less safe. Tuesday’s arrest of Scot Peterson, however, could make a dangerous law even worse by shifting more liability to teachers, said Fedrick Ingram, president of the union.

“What responsibility do you then have as a volunteer who is saying, ‘I’m going to arm myself?’” Ingram said. “How far does that responsibility go? ... That’s a thought process our teachers should not be faced with.”

Even more unsettling for union members is that in August the state amended the Department of Education’s insurance policy for teachers to exclude coverage for claims arising out of “armed instructional personnel while acting in the scope of their activities for the educational institution.”

That means armed teachers won’t have state coverage in case of lawsuits, said Ron Meyer, a Tallahassee lawyer who represents the teacher’s union. That, plus the questions of criminal charges rising out of Peterson’s arrest, “puts people in peril,” he said.

It’s not unheard of for teachers to be charged with neglect of a child, which are seven of the 11 charges Peterson faces, along with perjury and culpable negligence. Media reports depict examples of school staff being slapped with criminal neglect after a teacher’s aide failed to report when two autistic students went missing in Maryland or when a toddler drowned in the presence of a swim instructor near Orlando.

But Peterson’s arrest appears to be an unprecedented punishment for the inaction of a law enforcement officer.

Teachers aside, some law enforcement groups found the criminal charges against Peterson troubling for what it could mean for them in the future. John Kazanjian, president of the Florida Police Benevolent Association, a major police union, said Wednesday that although Peterson’s actions were “unconscionable,” his arrest is “highly concerning and likely to have unintended and unprecedented consequences for good law enforcement officers.”

Yet Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri, who heads the post-Parkland task force and who has advocated for teachers to be armed, said that Peterson’s arrest is a one-time “anomaly” that sets no precedent.

“We’re talking about a guy who got to the east door of building 12 and heard guns shots and heard (Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School coach) Aaron Feis being killed ... turned around and ran to spot of personal safety and hiding,” Gualtieri said, adding that Peterson also lied about his actions in an interview later “to cover for his inaction.”

“Anyone who signs up to do a job who has a responsibility for kids not doing it to the degree Peterson didn’t do it, whether you’re a (school) guardian, whether you’re a cop, or anybody else, I don’t see that happening again,” he said.

Peterson, who has long insisted he acted properly and was unsure of Nikolas Cruz’s location during the shooting, faces nearly 100 years in prison if convicted. Because he was the school resource officer trained to engage an active shooter immediately, Peterson “was responsible for the welfare and safety” of the students and “failed to make a reasonable effort” to protect them, according to an arrest warrant.

At last count, 28 of Florida’s 67 counties are participating in some form with the state’s “Guardian program,” which allows districts to partner with local sheriff’s offices to train and arm school staff or to hire their own security guards, according a Department of Education presentation. Of those districts, at least four — Bay, Baker, Okaloosa, Suwannee — plan to allow classroom teachers to volunteer to have guns, according to a survey conducted in May by the Florida Education Association.

Senate President Bill Galvano, who was instrumental in the passage of last year’s law that created the Guardian program, declined to comment Wednesday on the question of how Peterson’s arrest could affect armed teachers.

#Resist

[joan1984]

The person quoted, rather than a Police Officer, is the County Prosecutor.

The firearm, in the hands of a trained Licensed Concealed Carry owner, will be stored according to her training, and therefore considered an advantage for the family, and their home.

She obviously had the training, that required by the State, to be issued her Concealed Carry Firearm License, and so others fretting about what might or could or woulda' under some less than ideal situation is unnecessary, and unwarranted in this case.

Good thing she took action to get the firearm, the training and the license, and the training to hit where she aimed to hit.

A positive statement like that of the Prosecutor is appreciated, encouraged.
Indeed this is a family now with a positive experience, and knowledge about the clear advantage of being fully prepared for what they knew could happen.

[psiberzerker]

so others fretting about what might or could or woulda' under some less than ideal situation is unnecessary, and unwarranted in this case.

Because a County Prosecutor is trained in "What if?"  I had no trouble imagining twhat might have happened if she didn't have a gun, screaming, throwing things, and calling 9-11 are all natural responses to 5 kids seeing their mother being attacked. 

My question was What Happens Now?  Children left in a home like that, without Therapy for the TRAUMA they just went through isn't a "What If?"  It's a fact of the case.  Also, there's 5 kids, so let's just assume that they can't get into EVERYTHING.  Because kids don't do that.

If the woman hadn't considered a "Less than ideal situation," then she wouldn't have had a gun, and the training to protect herself.  That is what a Prosecutor calls a Fact of the Case.  So, it's only irelevant After she shoots someone?  The current less than ideal situation is not something we have to worry about?  SHE JUST SHOT SOMEONE.  She's traumatized too.  

A positive statement like that of the Prosecutor is appreciated, encouraged.  Indeed this is a family now with a positive experience, and knowledge about the clear advantage of being fully prepared for what they knew could happen.

As long as we don't think about it too much.  Nothing bad can possibly happen there, now.  "And they lived happily ever after."  As long as there's a gun in the house.

That's dangerously, willfully ignorant.  They all 6 went through a traumatic experience, and they need therapy.