Good Guy/Gal With A Gun

[psiberzerker]

The above is what you quoted me as saying, and the above is true.

Read it again.  You said that the Intruders are safer.

"Clearly"

[joan1984]

Exactly, intruders are safer, when the homeowner is unarmed.

The above is what you quoted me as saying, and the above is true.

Read it again.  You said that the Intruders are safer.

"Clearly"

[psiberzerker]

Exactly, intruders are safer, when the homeowner is unarmed.

They're not "Unarmed."  They have knives, frying pans, baseball bats, and they know where everything is, because they live there.  There's no "Safe" way to break into someone's house.  They're less likely to get shot, that's it.  They're still up against Home Defender's Advantage, and that's not even counting the Neighbors.

You could argue that the Intruder could bring a gun, though.

It's funny to hear the "Safer Intruders" argument, coming from you.

[joan1984]

  So happy you now understand what I was saying, and no longer are finding anything I did not say to critique. I was agreeing with Lois, as I recall. I hope you also agree with Lois in this regard.

[psiberzerker]

"Clearly"

It doesn't take a gun to defend your home.  It doesn't really take training, if you can walk around in the dark, without running into things, half awake, because you know where everything is (Or should be, not counting the odd lego brick the cat was playing with.)  Then you have the advantage over anyone that shouldn't be there.

I see a lot of bad advice on Gun channels.  I'm a gun owner, I have them locked up in my van, which is outside the home, because that's where they are most secure.  I also have a plan to defend the home if I'm here, when someone tries to get in.  It's part of my mindset, after living on the streets so long (Over half my life) it's part of Having a home.

You don't need a gun to do that.  A gun doesn't make you any safer, being trained (By the US Army) in shooting doesn't either.  It's the mindset, awareness of where you are, what's around you, what belongs, and what doesn't.  That's how You defend Yourself, and Your home.

One of my pet peeves is "The ultimate in home defense is a 12 gauge."  First of all, breaking open shot-cups, and throwing lead around 9 balls at a time is a great way to Break stuff.  Your stuff, your room mate's stuff, punching large holes in everything isn't real good for the home you're trying to protect.

Another pet peeve is not even mentioning Hearing Protection.  Have you ever shot a 12 gauge indoors?  I have, with hearing protection.  You can hear it with your Skull, through the headphones, even with Boze Noise Cancellation by bone conduction.  (A 12 gauge blank is equivalent in explosive power to a commercial Blasting Cap.  In fact, you can use one to set off Plastique, which is stable enough to burn, and stomp out without detonating it.)  

So, why does the Ultimate Universal Advice on defending your home, not mentioon Protecting your hearing (And your family's) from the shotgun you bought to protect you?  No mention of Gun Safes.  The gun is supposed to protect you, but not even going to discuss keeping your Guns Safe?  I know this is so llong that You're probably not going to read all of it, but someone else might, and it's important.  The reason why you are more likely to be killed, or injured by your own guns than need them to defend Your Self is because we talk about needing guns to protect us, and not protecting ourselves, from our own guns.

It doesn't go without saying.  If you're not going to go to the trouble to learn about guns, and gun safety, don't bother.  If you won't talk about gun safety, don't bother telling people (Not just me) who practice it how Inturders in our homes would be safer if we didn't have them.

An intruder in my home is quite likely to be Tortured until the cops show up, but I probably won't kill them.  I have absolutely no intention of shooting them.

[psiberzerker]

Control your guns, people.  So, the Government doesn't have to.

[_priapism]

Folks are still safer without guns in the home than with them.

At least 285 children got ahold of a gun and inadvertently shot themselves or someone else in 2017. Adolescents, in particular, are at a higher risk for suicide when there is a gun in the home. In fact, a gun in the home is 43 times more likely to be used to kill a friend or family member than a burglar or other criminal.. I got rid of my guns when the first child came home from the hospital.  I have never regretted that decision.

[psiberzerker]

I got rid of my guns when the first child came home from the hospital.  I have never regretted that decision.

Interestingly enough.  I just got my guns out, and brought them into the home to clean, and pack them away for longterm storage.  Because of this discussion, I've been putting it off for a while, but this is part of gun ownership, and an important part:

Maintenance, and safe storage.  If they're not maintained, then you can't depend on them when you need them for self defense, or defense of the home.  The rest of the time, you have to have Safe Storage, because someone can come into the home (Or my van where they're normally locked up, but that is also on this property) This includes Burglars, but can also mean neighborhood kids.  

The other option is to "Get rid of them," which also means the responsibility of making sure they don't get into the wrong hands.  I'm not going to ask H2O what he did with them, because it's not my place.  I'll just explore some of the Options:  You can't just throw them in a field, it's not a nice thing to do to a gun, anyone can find it there, and you don't make any return on your investment that way.

You could pawn them, or sell them to a gun shop.  A collector, or some guy you found on Craigslist.  A pawn shop, or FFL should have the security to prevent being broken into, or letting children get near them.  (I'm just skipping past the danger of letting the homeowner near children.)  

The pawn shop can then sell it to someone, who can buy ammo from elsewhere, and go on a shooting spree, or use it in a home invasion.  However, at that point you've sold it in good faith, and the responsibility lies in the Pawn Shop for selling it.  An FFL is under the auspices of the ATF, and how they insure that they don't get into the wrong hands.  (They pretty much don't.)

As a gun owner, it is YOUR responsibility to make sure that Your guns do not fall into the wrong hands.  If you can't do that, then I can't trust you to defend yourself, and your home, with or without a gun.  

Fortunately, that's not my responsibility.

[_priapism]

I got rid of my guns when the first child came home from the hospital.  I have never regretted that decision.

The other option is to "Get rid of them," which also means the responsibility of making sure they don't get into the wrong hands.  I'm not going to ask H2O what he did with them, because it's not my place.  

Pawn shop.  FFL holder.  I didn’t just put them on the curb with a sign that said “free to good home.”  You really annoy the fuck out of me on a daily basis.

[psiberzerker]

You really annoy the fuck out of me on a daily basis.

That's not my intent.  You're actually trying to annoy me.  I'm not responsible for your feelings.

You might have gotten more money out of them, depending on the guns, to a gun store, or collector.

[_priapism]

You really annoy the fuck out of me on a daily basis.

That's not my intent.  You're actually trying to annoy me.  I'm not responsible for your feelings.

You might have gotten more money out of them, depending on the guns, to a gun store, or collector.

And there you go again.  Have you ever had a thought that you didn’t immediately blurt out?  I didn’t think so.

Yes, it is my feeling, not yours.  You are not responsible.

As far as “getting more money,” it was 20 years ago.  I don’t give a shit.  It was a safety decision, not a financial transaction.

[psiberzerker]

Yes, it is my feeling, not yours.  You are not responsible.

Then, if you have any interest in not being annoyed, you can stop antagonizing me, and abandon the delusion that just because I think I know what I'm talking about, I must be wrong, simply because of who's speaking.

Also, you're not really all that great at annoying me, no matter how hard you try.  Now, I'm going to keep talking about guns, and pedophiles, because they're both subjects I like to discuss.  You're just going to have to deal.

[Jed_]

As a gun owner, it is YOUR responsibility to make sure that Your guns do not fall into the wrong hands.  If you can't do that, then I can't trust you to defend yourself, and your home, with or without a gun.  

Fortunately, that's not my responsibility.

You can’t?

At least you added that last disqualifier.

I don’t have kids in the house, but it’s probable my Peruvian might end up watching kids in her family in my house one day.  So I have a gun safe on a pallet outside the house, just gotta get some help getting all 450 pounds of it in the house.

[psiberzerker]

I have a gun safe on a pallet outside the house, just gotta get some help getting all 450 pounds of it in the house.

Yeah, they're really heavy.  Makes them kinda hard the steal, though.  The one in my van is relatively lightweight (It just has to hold a Mini14 Para, and an Inglis High Power in a Holster Stock) but it's bolted down.  Theoretically, someone could unbolt it, break in, carry it off, and open it at their leisure, but I doubt they could without getting caught.  The neighbors around here, and their dogs might have something to say about it.

There's this blue Heeler next door, like 5 feet, and a section of chainlink away from them, that barks whenever I sit on the porch smoking my pipe.  Also, dogs are great for Home Security.  Just saying.

[Jed_]

Why I consider my ravenous German Shepard an even better deterrent than me with a gun.

For one thing, I’m not at home right now but she is.

[Katiebee]

My dad routinely says that if you need a firearm to be to be armed, then you are never truly armed. It’s not the tool that makes you dangerous or lethal. It is you.

[Jed_]

My dad routinely says that if you need a firearm to be to be armed, then you are never truly armed. It’s not the tool that makes you dangerous or lethal. It is you.

Damn right for ex military.

For me not being the above, I find comfort in the tool.  I do however consider reliance on the tool alone to be folly.

[psiberzerker]

Damn right for ex military.

For me not being the above, I find comfort in the tool.  I do however consider reliance on the tool alone to be folly.

That might be it.  Non-military people seem to talk about the Tool saving their life, the Wall protecting them.  Vets talk about the Actions we do, with the tools, at the walls.  We save our lives, and protect our homes. 

[Katiebee]

My dad says that people fail to realize that half-hearted defense doean’t Work. 100%, all out attack will deter most attackers.

That is why a 100 pound dog can take down a 250 pound man.

In a scenario where you have reason to believe you will be severely harmed, or killed, you have nothing to lose.

[Athos_131]

#Resist