This account of two nights in Ferguson is terrifying

[Athos_131]

I'm probably opening a can of worms on this, but after reading this I had to share it.

The Front Lines of Ferguson

[watcher1]

A suburb of St Louis that is over 70% African-American.  A police force that is over 95% white.  The town's administration is overwhelmingly white. Seems to me this was a recipe for trouble.

[MissBarbara]

I'm probably opening a can of worms on this, but after reading this I had to share it.

I'd be interesting in hearing your personal opinion...

The fact is, with this incident, the two incidents the author mentions (Tayvon Martin and the man who died last week in NYC due to an illegal police choke-hold) and many others) it's impossible to get a complete and unbiased account of what actually occurred. There are many stories -- many of them conflicting -- and most accounts are laced with personal opinions, preconceived notions, insinuations, and personal biases (e.g. the post just above this one).

Yes, this account is terrifying. And, to me (personal opinion alert!) it speaks, yet again, of the need to demilitarize police forces. The police tactics are the reason the protest did not proceed peacefully and (relatively) uneventfully. Regardless of what actually happened in the initial incident, the police provoked the rioting and street-fighting, and they have no one to blame but themselves.

[joan1984]

  The riot police and equipment in a small MO town managed to keep the place from being totally looted and burned to the ground, as they were intended. Hopefully surveillance was such that many looters are caught on film, identified, and will  be arrested and prosecuted in the coming days.

  The issue about the man shot after a scuffle for the officers weapon, and the weapon being fired inside a police car, and the suspects running from that officer, one escaping, one not, will be fully investigated, details provided, and charges placed where appropriate, as the case is investigated and charges placed. This case should have nothing to do with the riot by local citizens, and looting of retailers there.

  Should military gear be sold for scrap? Or should it be purchased with Federal dollars, directed by individual Congressional Reps as grants to local Police forces? Maybe some training should be included, including a new paint job to make it look less military. 35 Billion plus has been 'given' in grants by the Federal Government so far to place this equipment where it may be used, rather than discarded, or given to foreign governments where it will be used against us one day.

  Riots, and riot prevention, riot protection gear, go hand in hand. The adjudication of actions by criminals and police, who attacked who first and whether the suspects involved are at all innocent is to be determined. My guess is the cop did not set out to kill anyone that day, but reacted to events. We will all know soon.

  What this has to do with Treyvon Martin, the attacker in Florida, or a man selling illegal cigarettes in NYC, and what do they have in common seems to be Rev Al Sharpton, and the race peddlers who incite people to mob actions. Cooling off, the need for news cameras elsewhere, who knows what the answer is to uncivil action by those in Ferguson, MO.

[MissBarbara]

  The riot police and equipment in a small MO town managed to keep the place from being totally looted and burned to the ground, as they were intended.

But do you honestly believe -- and I'm asking this seriously -- that the fact that a highly militarized police force showed up and acted en masse had absolutely nothing to do with the escalation of a protest in to a larger conflict?

Hopefully surveillance was such that many looters are caught on film, identified, and will  be arrested and prosecuted in the coming days.

I agree.

What this has to do with Treyvon Martin, the attacker in Florida, or a man selling illegal cigarettes in NYC, and what do they have in common seems to be Rev Al Sharpton, and the race peddlers who incite people to mob actions.

I disagree.

Outside agitators had little to do with the escalation, nor did they "incite people to mob actions" in this instance. And in many other instances. Read the article posted by Athos, or one from a non-biased/non-opinion source, and it's clear that the police response had the most to do with the escalation.

Large, sometimes angry, protests and agitations occur on an almost daily basis in NYC, and they've never in recent devolved into a riot, looting, and the like. And the reason why is the tempered police response.

[IdleBoast]

This was just on the UK news.

At first glance, it looked like a throwback to the 1960s & 70s.

Whatever the true story, I think people are going to die before this is over. Well-meaning, innocent people.

[watcher1]

Over $4 billion dollars worth of used military equipment have gone to police forces across the country in the name of Homeland Security. Do small towns really need armored vehicles? Does a zoo's security force really need M-16 rifles?  A police department is by its very nature a quasi-military force but adding these types of equipment makes them too much like a military and the members in them thinking too much like they are in the military in my opinion.

[Dgan]

All the military weapons aside, the 18 year old was 6'4 and 292lbs of bruiser. I'd venture the cop gave up an easy foot and tens-of-pounds to him. The overgrown thug thought less than nothing of pushing around the Pakastanin-looking store clerk during his strong-arm robbery (and where is the fighting call to right that wrong?) and over what? A box of swisher sweets? The most ghetto of ghetto tobacco products?

Then minutes after this they are walking in the middle of the road blocking traffic and egging on a confrontation before the cops even get there. Let's see, just robbed a store, now doing everything in the world you can to get noticed and cause a confrontation? Yeah, real bright winner we have here, folks.

Add in the cop was injured in this event (though it doesn't speculate how) and as far as I"m concerned I don't care what color the thug was he got what he was looking for, his very own Darwin Award.  Frankly, if he wasn't deleted now it would just be that many more crimes and victims before he was; either by the cops or his own ghetto brethren.

There are two outcries that we should have instead of the one about color of the officer and the dead thug: Why was this kid brought up to believe his actions were perfectly okay (while being happily condoned by his friends who were there with him) and why is it apparently just as okay to the rest of that community that he was just waiting for an excuse to trash the store and it's owner? Why is THAT being allowed to be swept under the rug?

Oh, wait, it's not fitting someone's agenda... How silly of me.

[joan1984]

The number is well over 34 Billion in grants, from this Admin in response to local Congress reps... new and reconditioned equipment, keeping military suppliers in business.

The number has nothing to do with lawless behavior, looting, and throwing fire bombs at the police, however.

Over $4 billion dollars worth of used military equipment have gone to police forces across the country in the name of Homeland Security. Do small towns really need armored vehicles? Does a zoo's security force really need M-16 rifles?  A police department is by its very nature a quasi-military force but adding these types of equipment makes them too much like a military and the members in them thinking too much like they are in the military in my opinion.

[phtlc]

But do you honestly believe -- and I'm asking this seriously -- that the fact that a highly militarized police force showed up and acted en masse had absolutely nothing to do with the escalation of a protest in to a larger conflict?

It's hard to say. Was there a presence of militarized police prior to the LA riots in the early 90's?

[joan1984]

  "Ferguson, MO" is the quaint name of what is better known as North County, a long time ghetto abutting St. Louis, MO, virtually indistinguishable for a motorist driving through that area. A few miles up the road, during the riot and civil commotion, looting and fire bombs being dealt with by local police, a professional baseball game was sold out, a happy event at the main Stadium in St. Louis, MO.

  The idea that this is some small town is a misnomer, as it has been a long time since this was any sort of "community" anyone seeks to be a part of, in any smalltown sense. This is urban, ghetto, and trouble filled on its best day, with a few actual homeowners who cannot sell, or choose to remain there mixed in. More "incorporated" vs. "unincorporated" would define this zip code from adjacent areas.

  The local police were awarded Federal grants to buy the excess equipment as they require such equipment, just in case the neighbors throw fire bombs at them, or shoot at Police helicopters, or choose to demonstrate their civil behavior in some other manner.

  This is not Mayberry! And so, the local police had the correct response to the 'expected' riot, civil commotion, no permit 'demonstrators' behavior, and had experienced these citizens in its past, nearly every summer. The reason would vary, but he locals were the same, and the merchants and property owners require such police capability.

  This is the first time National coverage, and International coverage, including Aljazeera and Russia Today were on hand, also expecting the locals to behave as they have in the past. Closing the businesses became necessary, in order to enforce the needed curfew to remove rioters from the streets. Closing the McDonald's, and clearing that business of all inside, resulted in the arrest of two stringer reporters affiliated with the Hufington Post and the Washington Post, fanning the flames in the media.

  The first day saw a U.S. House of Representatives member calling for President Obama to declare Marhall Law, rather than calling for neighbors to return to their homes and remain civil. Of course, the President has no jurisdiction in a State for such a declaration, and President Obama wisely counseled all to behave in a legal and civil manner, to his credit.

  A different approach was imposed by State government, and with time having passed, and residents knowing no looting would be open to them, less illegal behavior was evidenced the past two days. Police named the officer involved in the incident, only after a wrong name was broadcast by the leftist group Anonymous, with death threats as expected by lawless elements in the 'community' disrupted, and continue to disrupt that 'dispatcher' and his family's lives.

  This was an attempt to arrest two thugs behaving oddly, which then escalated to an assault on the officer, an attempt to steal his gun and kill him in the cruiser, and a fleeing felon being killed, another getting away, only to turn himself in later. Unknown to the Officer, these two had been recorded in a strong arm robbery at the local Quick Mart, stealing blunts with which to smoke their dope, and shoving around the store's female staff.

  This is called Tuesday, in North County, St. Louis, MO, most weeks.

[phtlc]

I'm still trying to figure out how this cop, while still seated in his car, reached through his window and grabbed the throat of this 6 foot plus dude and then holding him by the throat dragged his 300 pound body halfway through the car window (while still seated ...ie has no leverage). Because according to Michael Browns friend (the primary witness) that explains how Mr. Brown found himself leaning halfway through the cops window and struggling with the cop when the first shot went off. This cop must have very long arms and be inhumanly strong.

[Athos_131]

FYI people, here's an always being updated list on what is confirmed and what is in dispute over what's going on in Ferguson.

http://www.vox.com/2014/8/11/5988925/mike-brown-killing-shooting-case-ferguson-police-riots-st-louis

Be careful with your rhetoric and propaganda or you'll look foolish.  You know who you are.

[MissBarbara]

Over $4 billion dollars worth of used military equipment have gone to police forces across the country in the name of Homeland Security. Do small towns really need armored vehicles? Does a zoo's security force really need M-16 rifles?  A police department is by its very nature a quasi-military force but adding these types of equipment makes them too much like a military and the members in them thinking too much like they are in the military in my opinion.

I agree.

[joan1984]

I'm still trying to figure out how this cop, while still seated in his car, reached through his window and grabbed the throat of this 6 foot plus dude and then holding him by the throat dragged his 300 pound body halfway through the car window (while still seated ...ie has no leverage). Because according to Michael Browns friend (the primary witness) that explains how Mr. Brown found himself leaning halfway through the cops window and struggling with the cop when the first shot went off. This cop must have very long arms and be inhumanly strong.

Or, the perp friend is misremembering details...hmmm.

[Lois]

From another site:

Dear White People...
Note | 10 Comments · 38 Love It | 1 day ago

Hi, white people, I'm white, too. You may be feeling nervous already, I've called upon you by race. If you're feeling anxious, hang in there. This is important for your well being and that of everyone around you.

About a week ago in Ferguson, MO, Brown was shot by police.

Mike Brown was someone's son. A human being. He was an 18 year old black male youth. Walking down the street. And now he is gone forever.

Police in Ferguson unleashed violence at protests and vigils leading to days of rioting. People in Ferguson and surrounding areas are defending their homes, their town, their lives. Sometimes with violence, sometimes by holding space passively, sometimes by speaking out, sometimes by remaining silent.

Frankly, I believe that when police kill kids and youth and anyone for being black and outdoors, they should fear that the city will burn.

I am asking you, white people, to imagine a world where your brothers, fathers, sons, cousins, friends, lovers, and family are at risk of murder by the state for existing with a certain skin color. Where your schools, pay checks, access to medical care, and daily safety are all inadequate, degenerating, or nonexistent due to your skin color.

I am asking you not to make excuses or use respectability politics as the media and police have attempted to. It does not matter if this kid stole cigars (even though the officer who murdered him admits he did not stop Brown on the street for suspicion of robbery). I don't care if he stole cigars every day of his 18 years of life. It does not matter how he walked, talked, what time of day he was out, what he wore, or who he associated with. There is no reason why police should shoot unarmed black youth with their hands in the air. And they do. Every day.

I am asking you to realize that this is part of a larger system. A system you are part of. So, speak out against police violence and brutality, but don't stop there. Please call your white friends and coworkers out when they say racist shit. Use your white privilege to make space for people of color. Challenge your own internalized racism. We all have it. Acknowledge people of color, talk to them, listen to them, say fucking hello. Shake hands. Challenge the racist assumptions you are taught to make about black men or black women or black trans people or any people of color. Unlearn that shit. Because we're part of this. It is OUR responsibility to dismantle this. To make space for people of color. To rip this racist system to shreds.

So, the next time you hear an excuse for why it was ok for a white cop to shoot another black kid or black man or to beat another pregnant woman of color or to murder another trans woman of color, ask yourself what reasoning would be good enough if it was your family, your partner, your community, or you.

Unlearning racism and white supremacy is liberating for everyone, including white people. Make the world better for you and everyone else. Racism affects you, white people. And you can help stop it.

Want to read more about racism and white supremacy and how to unlearn it? Here is a good place to start: http://wwhatsup.wordpress.com/study-group-readings-…

Want to talk about racism and white supremacy with another white person, but are a little too nervous to do it publicly? Shoot me a personal message.

Note on commenting: I know there is a chance that this note will get some negative attention if it gets any attention. Be forewarned that racist comments will be deleted. I won't even bother responding. Racism speaks loud enough already. So, don't bother. Here's Tim Wise's FAQ for all of your needs.

[phtlc]

Frankly, I believe that when police kill kids and youth and anyone for being black and outdoors, they should fear that the city will burn.
 

Have we established for fact that he was killed for being black and outdoors?

I am asking you, white people, to imagine a world where your brothers, fathers, sons, cousins, friends, lovers, and family are at risk of murder by the state for existing with a certain skin color.

OK, I haven't been following this case as closely as the rest of you perhaps, but has it been established as fact that Michael Brown was murdered by the state for his skin colour?

I am asking you not to make excuses or use respectability politics as the media and police have attempted to. It does not matter if this kid stole cigars (even though the officer who murdered him admits he did not stop Brown on the street for suspicion of robbery).

Murdered him? Has this been established as fact?

There is no reason why police should shoot unarmed black youth with their hands in the air. And they do. Every day.
 

They shoot unarmed black youth every day? Source?

Please call your white friends and coworkers out when they say racist shit.

I call people of all colour out when they display bigotry, not just whites, but go ahead and assume this is something that only whites do. Usually when I am calling people out for bigotry, anti-semitism, homophobia...etc....the people I am calling out don't look like me.

Use your white privilege to make space for people of color

White privilege? You should see where I work LOL

Challenge your own internalized racism. We all have it. Acknowledge people of color, talk to them, listen to them, say fucking hello. Shake hands. Challenge the racist assumptions you are taught to make about black men or black women or black trans people or any people of color. Unlearn that shit. Because we're part of this. It is OUR responsibility to dismantle this. To make space for people of color. To rip this racist system to shreds.

As you say "We all have it" yet the finger isn't pointed at everyone. Just at people who look like me. People who don't look like me are given a free pass for their contribution to the problem and that is why the problem won't go away anytime soon.

So, the next time you hear an excuse for why it was ok for a white cop to shoot another black kid or black man or to beat another pregnant woman of color or to murder another trans woman of color, ask yourself what reasoning would be good enough if it was your family, your partner, your community, or you.

And the next time you hear someone justifying the victimization of a white person by saying;

 "Oh and I suppose it was OK when they did it to us" or

"Whitey just can't handle that what goes around comes around" or

"hey it's whiteys chickens coming home to roost" or

"hey look what they did to the natives.....now they can't handle that its their turn" ........ask yourself what reasoning would be good enough if it was your family, your partner, your community, or you.

Unlearning racism and white supremacy is liberating for everyone, including white people. Make the world better for you and everyone else. Racism affects you, white people. And you can help stop it.
Want to read more about racism and white supremacy and how to unlearn it? Here is a good place to start: http://wwhatsup.wordpress.com/study-group-readings-…
Want to talk about racism and white supremacy with another white person, but are a little too nervous to do it publicly? Shoot me a personal message.
 

Racism is prevalent in all communities and has long since stopped being uniquely a "white supremacy" thing. Until that is recognized and the discussion of racism addresses the real issues instead of simply being used as a way of manipulating public opinion you should not expect to see any progress.

Sorry, this article uses a lot of loaded terminology, logical fallacies and straw man arguments to the effect that anyone who disagrees is a closet racist. When the race card is used to guilt trip or manipulate opinions it has the opposite effect and simply makes people jaded so they roll their eyes when the "R" word is used.

[Athos_131]

Phtlc, after reading your reaction to Lois' post, I'm curious as to what your opinion on Joan's posts in this thread are.

[IdleBoast]

A few comments:

> White, Chinese and Hispanic people get shot by police as well.  Why isn't there the same same unified, horrified response to those incidents?

> I am still seeing comments online (and from those present in Ferguson) to the effect that the local police are hiding the identity of the officer involved, even though he was named two days ago.

> Online commenters are using legally-dubious language - they refer to the robbery Brown committed as "alleged" (even though there is video evidence available to show him committing the crime), and statements from police are all "allegations", yet comments from people that weren't even in the area at the time are being taken as inarguable fact ("murder", "execution style killing").

>

U.S. Rep. William Lacy Clay, a Democrat from St. Louis, took a bullhorn and spoke to people gathered at the QuickTrip.

"They have attempted to taint the entire investigation," Clay said to a cheering crowd. "They are trying to influence a jury pool by the stunt they pulled today.

This was in reference to the police releasing a statement about the shooting, and parts of the CCTV from the store where the robbery took place.  To my mind as an external observer, Clay's actions were far more of a stunt, designed to gain him votes, to whip the local population into a greater frenzy over the incident, and, indeed, to influence the jury pool.

> Despite requests from the family, the local population has responded to the death with direct, wilful confrontation and violence - stores have been burned, people have walking the streets with bullhorns calling for revolution, and petrol bombs have been thrown.  The situation has not been helped by a number of non-locals who have arrived to confront the police.

> "Witness statements" (at least, comments to journalists) cannot agree on the nature of the shooting - "execution style"? "shot while running away"?  "shot in a tussle inside the police car"?

-------------

As far as I can see from this side of the pond, the actual incident was no different, and no more controversial, than dozens of others across the nation; a teen criminal committed one crime too many, took on the local law and came off worst. 

What happened since is that Officer Wilson, and the force as a whole, have been tried and found guilty of murder, conspiracy to murder, assassination and institutional racism, all without recourse to due process, including examination and cross-examination of witnesses, examination of evidence, and trial by jury.

What *should* happen is that everybody goes home, let the police do their job (under scrutiny by observers), and the evidence gets presented in a court of law.  Only then, if the officer is found at fault, should the community protest, and then in a peaceful manner.

[staci]

Phtlc, after reading your reaction to Lois' post, I'm curious as to what your opinion on Joan's posts in this thread are.

Said the spider to the fly -