Egypt ...

[Lois]

This is so very very sad.  Why are we humans so quick to grasp at violent solutions?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/15/egypt-military-muslim-brotherhood_n_3762068.html?utm_hp_ref=world

[Bexy]

I just saw on national (Belgian) TV a muslim from the Muslim Brotherhood explaining this is the work of government provocateurs.

[insatiable]

A more in-situation news from another Egyptian civilain:

I want to get the record straight because I am in Egypt and have followed this like a crackhead since the beginning. You guys are using inflammatory rhetoric and it is not helping.

The Muslim Brothers (MB) won elections in Egypt 3 times. They got in power. Their actual, proven crimes are these:

    Lied to the Jan25 revolution, made a deal with military in 2011.
    Took power after promising they wouldn't.
    Ran a guy for president after promising they wouldn't.
    Morsi (MB pres) declared himself above the law in Nov 2012, and used this period to push through an oppressive constitution.
    MB used inflammatory rhetoric against Shi'a and Christians.
    MB refused all calls for compromise.
    Morsi strengthens ties with extremist violent groups like Jama Ismalia
    Morsi completely ignored opposition. Instead he claimed a conspiracy against him. Then June30 coupvelution happened.

NOW:

    MB has guns. Civilian anti MB has same guns.
    MB using inflammatory rhetoric. Anti-MB media using inflammatory rhetoric.
    Some pro-MB guys doing attacks. Churches are burning. This is not DIRECTLY a MB action but you could easily link it to the rhetoric above.
    Some anti-MB are also doing killings and attacks. Tied to mass media rhetoric above.
    Some MB are armed with AK47. Most are not armed.
    In early Ramadan, pro-Morsi crowds did behave violently and confronted groups in Tahrir which led to a gun battle. I blame them for this. Also they are probably complicit in the church attacks, which is heinous, but again, that does not mean they are all needing the death sentence. That means that the guys doing the attacks need to be put on trial.

It is not correct to say that MB are "violent assholes" and therefore they deserve to die. I don't want them in power, and I have listed above what they did to be in this state. Their rhetoric was like playing with a cobra, now we're all getting bitten. But that is not the same thing as directly going to do killings. Also yes there were lots of rapes, but in my honest opinion (no one knows for sure) these were just degenerate rapist gangs. There's not evidence linking this to MB. I repeat: The rapes in Tahrir were likely just bored, soulless cunts. Not MB gangs. There is also a lot of deplorable poverty in Egypt that is soul crushing and life destroying and leads to a lot of this. Not excusing it. Rapists need swift and unblinking justice. But fuck, their lives were miserable to begin with, from birth.

As for random killings? Yes. This is happening on both sides. There are tons of people in twitter now threatening anyone with a beard. It is a low-level civil war happening. But that does not give anyone an excuse to jump on a bandwagon of one side or the other is "evil" and the other is "good." No. It's not true. Stop it.

I think there's some talk on Western media and forums that is truth, but most of it is poisoned by this "Ew, muslims, they deserve to die" shit. They shouldn't be in power and they used rhetoric that was very dangerous but the majority of their people on the street are just regular people. You should blame their leaders, not their everyday people. These are just people. They may be on the side that we don't agree with but they don't deserve to die. If I listed the crimes of the military it is much more bloody and oppressive history including proven rapes and murders that were carried out in a systematic fashion on innocent people. They ran over Christians with trucks and raped women in "virginity tests." Please don't come to the conclusion that Egypt's military are behaving like heroes, this is really wrong.

I live here. Haven't left for more than a few weeks since well before Jan 2011. I know the situation better than just about anyone. But fuck me if I know what's "actually" going on. I don't. So neither do any of you. If you're "sure" about who is right and who is wrong, you're probably off base. It is a war, it is not black and white. The one thing we all have to do is maintain our humanity. For chrissakes don't become a thoughtless heartless rabble. There's enough of that in the world.

This attitude that "Oh we're not being shown the truth, they all actually deserve to be killed" is gross. You know why journalists don't paint it that way? Because they are THERE. The journalists have to go to the morgue and come back soaked to the bone with wet socks from icy water mixed with blood and death. You want to throw out shoes that smell like that and then tell the people "they deserved it?" These are real people. The people in the video were in Rabaa. They are not the ones doing attacks around Egypt. You see any guns in the video? No. You see people scared out of their fucking heads who never faced violence. Why dehumanize them further? Why say that because there are criminals who share their ideology they need to die? That's the first lie that humans tell. It's sick. Each person is his own person and is supposed to be judged on his actions. We don't know the hearts of the people in this video, so how can we judge them based on hearsay for things that happened in other parts of the same country?

I should also add that the same vitriol that I have here is also for those attacking Christians. They didn't do anything but be oppressed and suffer. Some of the poorest people here are Christians and they are defenseless.

TL:DR; If you think you know what is happening in Egypt, you are probably wrong. If you think you know who the good guys are, Please take a look in the mirror because the process happening in your mind is the same process that leads to war. I have seen a war start, and that is literally ALL it takes. It is EASY, and you guys are doing it. The comments here are no better than the horrible vitriol being shown by Egyptians cheering this killing on. These are all people with families. I am here and it is sickening me to watch people lose their humanity over fucking politics. Please stop. Everyone stop. It's bad enough to have hundreds dying on the street like animals without the smug satisfaction. You think they did crimes? They get trials. This is what's called humanity. If you would want it for YOU, don't cheer when someone else gets less, because you're next in line. The one lesson I learned from this is that humans can be despicable animals, and the worst kind is the one who is safe and cheering the murder of the one who is not safe. Please Stop.


edit: fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck so much gunfire. right by my house.

continuous ak47 shooting for about an hour. holy shit that was scary. holy. shit.

[Bexy]

A more in-situation news from another Egyptian civilain:

Woo for a nuanced civilian account of events!

[Lois]

It seems there's a big controversy about US aid right now.   The US provides about 1.5 billion dollars a year to Egypt, in mostly military aid.  Egypt uses this money to buy US made weapons.  Cancelling this aid means 1.5 billion per year less in orders to US weapons manufacturers and that would hurt the US economy.

 

[Bexy]

It seems there's a big controversy about US aid right now.   The US provides about 1.5 billion dollars a year to Egypt, in mostly military aid.  Egypt uses this money to buy US made weapons.  Cancelling this aid means 1.5 billion per year less in orders to US weapons manufacturers and that would hurt the US economy.

 

It's all about the money... 'Military aid' reminds me of 'ethnic cleansing' and other eufemisms. 'Weapon supply' and 'ethnic mass murder' don't sound fluffy enough to keep the unthinking masses pacified I guess.

[Grm]

It seems there's a big controversy about US aid right now.   The US provides about 1.5 billion dollars a year to Egypt, in mostly military aid.  Egypt uses this money to buy US made weapons.  Cancelling this aid means 1.5 billion per year less in orders to US weapons manufacturers and that would hurt the US economy.

They could spend it in the USA, a stealth jet for every Republican blogger, or a few land mines for every family, for home defense.