"Gray Rape"

[Katiebee]

We are making it about the idea that dressing provocatively is the equivalent of giving permission that someone can take sexual liberties.

[Lostforkate]

I would not say it is provocative dress by any means, but behavior and action that leads to risk. It is not about going to a pub and do some hunting (i love that term), but who and how a person puts themselves in a 1-1 situation with someone they really don't know in a proactive setting.

I like sexually adventurous woman, and that should not be a problem.

[Katiebee]

I agree, that should not be a problem. If someone says no, even if you are both naked and you are about to penetrate or even if you have penetration, you have just been denied permission to continue. No stops everything. In BDSM, the safe word is only a means to ensure everyone knows you are no longer playing and have rescinded permission.

It's like inviting a vampire into your house. According to folklore, rescinding that invitation forces them out of the house.

[Lostforkate]

Katie,

Your definitely bring a different perspective into the discussion in a more serious sense of the BDSM lifestyle. Ironically, the partners you're referring to, may have stronger appetites, yet understand the boundaries, better than a standard co-ed campus environment.

woo for your continued explanation

[enchantedpagan012]

I wish people from all directions of this topic would have more common sense. Boys being stupid, girls walking into frat parties dressed like a hooker...

Yes, because obviously the way a woman dresses and all is the reasoning behind why she gets raped  . How long before you bring up this old chestnut "Yeah I know, but a lot of men get falsely accused as well". You sir are disgusting,

[Janus]

I wish people from all directions of this topic would have more common sense. Boys being stupid, girls walking into frat parties dressed like a hooker...

Yes, because obviously the way a woman dresses and all is the reasoning behind why she gets raped  . How long before you bring up this old chestnut "Yeah I know, but a lot of men get falsely accused as well". You sir are disgusting,

If you add alcohol and young people bad decisions can take place. Period.

[Katiebee]

True, Janus. Though being drunk does not excuse you from liability for those decisions.

[Janus]

True, Janus. Though being drunk does not excuse you from liability for those decisions.

Without question you are absolutely right. I do not advocate that ladies who dress trampy/slutty/sexy or femininely deserve any kind of mistreatment either.

I encourage anyone who goes to a party where there is booze and lots of young drunk people to use a little common sense in how much they drink and how they behave. If you are with friends, check in with each other. Should folks have to do that? No,but it seems that it is a safer way to be.

[Elizabeth]

True, Janus. Though being drunk does not excuse you from liability for those decisions.

Without question you are absolutely right. I do not advocate that ladies who dress trampy/slutty/sexy or femininely deserve any kind of mistreatment either.

I encourage anyone who goes to a party where there is booze and lots of young drunk people to use a little common sense in how much they drink and how they behave. If you are with friends, check in with each other. Should folks have to do that? No,but it seems that it is a safer way to be.

In this day and age...it is ALWAYS wiser to go to a party (any party) with a friend.
That friend could very well be the deciding factor as to what happens to you and you to your friend. In some cases (especially ccollege), it may be the wiser choice to walk away from the party (while you can)..Once you are at a party, there is no rule/law that says you have to stay...if you are uncomfortable...then by all means leave.

Love,
Liz

[MissBarbara]

Snowm may have went about it all wrong but he is right about some stuff. I know men can be idiots, i know men can be animals, i know men can be worse.

But don't just lay all this blame on men. Women can be guilty of bad behavior and worse as well.

The problem, GG, is that you and snowm make the same mistake. No one in this thread has "laid all the blame on men." And no one said that women do not share some responsibility for avoiding potential situations.

Both the article cited in the OP, and the overwhelming majority of responses here, including my own, specifically take pains not to say, or even imply, either of these things.

[Elizabeth]

Simply Put...."Don't Condem Me, Just because Of The Way I Dress". There is no crime, in my clothing, because I dress the way I want, does NOT give YOU the right to TOUCH Me.
The only way you can touch me, is if, I give CONCENT, you do NOT have The Right To Take That AWAY From ME.

Love,
Liz
(Damn spell check). 

[GEMINIGUY]

I always respect what you have to say, MissBarbara, but from the posts flying back and forth in this thread men are getting the bad rap for the most part.

[byronsbeast]

I cant believe Im actually bothering to reply.....the source of the article says it all...COSMO. Reading the article which is an insipid but on an emotive topic attempt at filling paid for pages.... a boo to all cosmo readers. The question as posed doesn't warrant the effort of an answer.

[MissBarbara]

I always respect what you have to say, MissBarbara, but from the posts flying back and forth in this thread men are getting the bad rap for the most part.

I can see how you might think that, GG. But if you read through the thread, you'll see that men aren't getting a bad rap, that all men are not being blamed, and the things some men have posted are being highly criticized. And there's a world of difference between these.

Believe me, I'd speak out just as loudly against a poster, of any of the three sexes, who would blindly condemn all men for rape, or lay the blame exclusively at the feet of men.

But, as has been exhaustively (and exhuastingly) made clear by now, every time a man -- or a woman -- begins down the "dressed like that she's..." road, they deserve to be condemned, and in the strongest possible terms.

There's another, somewhat obvious point to consider, GG. The overwhelming majority of rapes are committed by men against women. So, in discussing rape, men aren't being "singled out," it's simply a factor of reporting statistics.

[Gina Marie]

I can see how you might think that, GG. But if you read through the thread, you'll see that men aren't getting a bad rap, that all men are not being blamed, and the things some men have posted are being highly criticized. And there's a world of difference between these.

Believe me, I'd speak out just as loudly against a poster, of any of the three sexes, who would blindly condemn all men for rape, or lay the blame exclusively at the feet of men.

But, as has been exhaustively (and exhuastingly) made clear by now, every time a man -- or a woman -- begins down the "dressed like that she's..." road, they deserve to be condemned, and in the strongest possible terms.

There's another, somewhat obvious point to consider, GG. The overwhelming majority of rapes are committed by men against women. So, in discussing rape, men aren't being "singled out," it's simply a factor of reporting statistics.

Damnit Barb - you posted yours before I could!

I always respect what you have to say, MissBarbara, but from the posts flying back and forth in this thread men are getting the bad rap for the most part.

Perhaps that is because the inverse virtually does not exist...

Can anyone here list the reported cases of women raping adult men in the US alone? I would like to see those numbers!

[GEMINIGUY]

Ahhh, but i'm not necessarily speaking of rape, i'm speaking of how the situations here make the guys look bad [yes, some guys are] and when a guy here points out something about the women they get jumped, lol
Things have been pointed out about women lying about being raped. Things are being said about women dressing sexy and then guys act on what they see and the guys are totally at fault.
In regards to things like the above and other situations women can be just as guilty to a point [and to a point that has been agreed upon]. What i'm saying is i'm hearing "guys should know better" and "dressed sexy isn't an invitation to fuck her" [not in those exact words]. Yes, those things are true, the guys have a responsibility in such situations BUT the women has a responsibilty as well. Do we at least agree men and women need to have a certain amount of responsibility in such situations???

[Katiebee]

Until you have a similar encounter. The reason it resonates so strongly with women is that WE LIVE IT.

Were it not for that, it would be a non-issue. What we continually point out is that there are too many men who feel empowered to take sexual liberties with a woman, and assign to her the full responsibility for their actions.

That they take refuge in the fallacy that their hormones are too strong to resist once enflames by the dress of their victim, while on the other hand being too willing to denigrate woman as creatures whose behavior is dictated by their hormonal surges, is ironic. Ironic in that the last claim is made against te backdrop of cool, calm, rational male behavior.

I do not paint all men with that brush, just those who subscribe to the macho image of maleness.

[Elizabeth]

GG...are you Islamic??
Not even trying to be funny..But you are talking like all women should be covered from head to foot (IE: Berka).  Why do I ask this, because I spend a large part of my time in the Middle East (abeit under the protection of the Royal Family). I've seen how women are treated both covered and uncovered (trust me, the Middle East is a proving ground on sexual abuse). Your persistence on dress, and how we should and what we should and when we should, leads me to the possibility's that if you are not Islamic, you at least support some of their ideology.
Just saying, not trying to offend you, just curious more than anything.

Love,
Liz
 

[MissBarbara]

Ahhh, but i'm not necessarily speaking of rape, i'm speaking of how the situations here make the guys look bad [yes, some guys are] and when a guy here points out something about the women they get jumped, lol

GG, this is a message board. A place where you are, by definition, going to get jumped. And if you guys are mad or sad or [insert Gia's wailing baby pic here] about the fact that you're getting jumped for things you post here, well, all you have to do is jump back.

Things have been pointed out about women lying about being raped.

You complain about men being stereotyped, and then you around and stereotype right back. All of these points have already been conceded, and all the exceptions have already been noted. Yes, women have claimed rape after a completely consensual act. Does that mean all women who claim rape are lying?

Things are being said about women dressing sexy and then guys act on what they see and the guys are totally at fault.

Please, please, please tell me I'm misreading that.

Please tell me that you believe that if a guy "acts on what he sees" when a woman "is dressing sexy," then he is completely and unquestionably guilty of rape.

In regards to things like the above and other situations women can be just as guilty to a point [and to a point that has been agreed upon]. What i'm saying is i'm hearing "guys should know better" and "dressed sexy isn't an invitation to fuck her" [not in those exact words]. Yes, those things are true, the guys have a responsibility in such situations BUT the women has a responsibilty as well. Do we at least agree men and women need to have a certain amount of responsibility in such situations???

What do you mean by "women are just as guilty to a point"? Either they're just as guilty, or they're not. And they're not -- at least using the word "guilty" in a legal sense. Of course women have a responsibility, and this has been already discussed and agreed upon.

I'm asking this honestly, GG, but what do you think women's responsibilities are in this regard?

And understand one thing, GG (and here I am specifically referring to every, single man): You cannot know what it's like to be a woman in a "chancy situation." You cannot feel what a woman feels where she's in a potentially threatening situation. You cannot grasp the burden of the constant sense of awareness that women must adapt to avoid being assaulted.

You may sympathize, you might try to understand, but you can never know it, and you can never feel it.

[GEMINIGUY]

I can talk until i'm blue in the face, but here's what it is: If you can't see this from the male perspective you won't get what i'm trying to say.
Alternately, being a male i'll have a problem fully understanding the female perspective.
You have to understand i'm seeking knowledge here. As a male who would never rape a woman i'm hurt by a lot of things said against males. I'm also hurt that you misunderstand my words. I'm not doing any woman-hating or playing any blame games and saying women are guilty, i'm saying [try to] look at it from both sides, the male perspective and the female perspective. Maybe then you'll understand why i'm feeling a little stung here.
This was my last post on this subject. I'm out of it from here on in.