"Gray Rape"

[Lostforkate]

I will be blount and maybe unpopular, but young woman and girls should taught more than just saying no! But be taught what is smart about man/woman relationships and what is safe and unsafe.

Most men will honor "no", because they know right from wrong. But for a very small minority, this may not be the case. You put a handful of men in an oportunistic situation, combine with hormones and alchohol (maybe drugs too), and a female (also under the influence) and you have a situation where a gray rape or date rape can occur, and the guy will get with it. Do not take this mean I agree with the logic.

I think the term "gray rape" could mean it is impossible to prove, or one word against another with collaboration or witnesses.

[MissBarbara]

I will be blunt and maybe unpopular, but young woman and girls should taught more than just saying no! But be taught what is smart about man/woman relationships and what is safe and unsafe.

Most men will honor "no", because they know right from wrong. But for a very small minority, this may not be the case. You put a handful of men in an oportunistic situation, combine with hormones and alchohol (maybe drugs too), and a female (also under the influence) and you have a situation where a gray rape or date rape can occur, and the guy will get with it. Do not take this mean I agree with the logic.

I think the term "gray rape" could mean it is impossible to prove, or one word against another with collaboration or witnesses.

I don't disagree with you.

If a woman willingly enteres a frat party+jocks+alcohol situation, it is incumbant on her to be aware of what, potentially, might occur. And it is similarly incumbant upon her to take whatever steps necessary to ensure trouble does not, in fact ensue.

I also agree that most men will, in fact, honor "no," and respect a woman's request to stop if/when she decides she does not proceed.

But not all women, and not all men.

More to the point, a woman should be able to attend that type of party without being a potential rape victim. And a woman should be able to be "sexually adventurous" and not have men assume she wants to get laid.

When reading the anecdote in that article about the woman with the "Platonic date," when she describes accompanying the man back to his room, my first reaction was, "don't even go there sister!" And when she decides that a little making out would be okay, my reaction was the same. Yes, she "went there," and yes, she agreed to make out (or whatever it's called these days). But is should be able to end there -- always, and with every man and every woman (or whatever people the respective coupling might involve). And, at times, it doesn't.

But it should.

[Elizabeth]

I can remember (on memorable night) at a cowboy bar, that I go to lots of times.
I was with (actually picked her up at the bar)and we decided to pull a fast one on the guys, we started to make out over in a corner of the bar (where it was quiet). The kissing got pretty intense and so did the ever watching/prying eyes of the guys. We were together (all told) maybe 3 hours, she got up and left the bar alone (as was her plan) and I went back to the pool table where my friends (guys) were playing pool.
I got teased alot by them, but they realized that while they could watch, they could not touch, To my surprise, they actually respected that and kept a distance from us.
(of course, later after it was all over, they just teased the hell outta me).

Love,
Liz
 

[Bexy]

I will be blount and maybe unpopular, but young woman and girls should taught more than just saying no! But be taught what is smart about man/woman relationships and what is safe and unsafe.

Exactly. I guess I can say I belong to The Last of the Hunter/Prize Generation. I've seen it change completely in girls about 5 years younger. I was never told to be afraid of men, hell I was raised between men, but it was considered common sense that if you went out as a young woman, that you at least be and stay within a group of trusted girlfriends or be accompanied by a trusted male. In my case it was my brother and cousins. I never approached a man myself and I still won't, it is against my nature. If I was interested in a man, all I needed to do was throw him a glance, divert my eyes and smile. Most men GET that message, at least the ones of my generation and older did. So I really don't see why on earth I would have to approach a man. Besides, some men have told me that 50% of the pleasure in courtship lies in 'the chase', and personally I've always found it enjoyable myself as well. However I never 'led a man on', those are childish and dangerous games. When you reach a point of discomfort, you need to make it clear you want him to back off for now.

I can certainly see how today courtship can be confusing for young men with raging testosterone. Does that mean I think it is ok for a guy to proceed when a woman says no? Of course not, but women should be taught that there is a minority of men out there you do NOT want to accompany to a private room unless you have already made up your mind you want to have sex with him.

[Katiebee]

Which is very sensible Bexy. What I wish is that this might be viewed as common sense,!rather than a novel or quaint approach.

[snowm]

I wish people from all directions of this topic would have more common sense. Boys being stupid, girls walking into frat parties dressed like a hooker...

[Katiebee]

That last comment was very inflammatory. I think a definition is due.

[MissBarbara]

That last comment was very inflammatory. I think a definition is due.

No, Katie, he's right! And it's a brilliant, game-changing point!

A woman who walks into a frat party is giving her tacit permission to be raped. A woman who dresses provacatively deserves to be sexualy assaulted. A woman who goes to a man's bedroom or apartment is giving her full permission to the man to fuck her, regardless what she might say.

Congratulations, snowm! You just solved this problem -- and changed the world!

IRONY ALERT

(Apologies Props to Gia...)

[Lostforkate]

Another irony, my hooker friend dresses well (meaning nice, does not look like a hooker) in public, and undresses even better in private.

[snowm]

You people are the most inflammatory dumb shits around.

common sense
n.
Sound judgment not based on specialized knowledge; native good judgment.
[Translation of Latin snsus commnis, common feelings of humanity.]

Pure defenition: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/common+sense not cherry picked and made up from 'multiple sources'

We were talking about common sense. It is common sense to say a woman probably shouldn't choose to dress like a hooker to a frat party. I would define dressing like a hooker as having on a skirt so short the goods are saying hi, and a top so low cut you can see a belly button.

Just like it is common sense for me not to slather my 8 month old with butter, salt and pepper and dangle her over a lion pit.

I am about done with you dumb fucks not reading what is actually written and making up meanings which are simply not there. Time and time again I have said there is no excuse for rape but you like to play your little attack with meme games and write just utter nonsense in response. Some of you have even exhibited intelligence in the past which leads to believe when you look down on your pedestal and pontificate on how mikki, m4m, or joan should post or act it is with true mindless disdain simply because they do not believe as you do. Anyone not carrying the same beliefs and goosestepping with whatever you say is ostracized and bullied.

Grow the fuck up and either shut up about others' behavior or get your head out of your ass and realize you do the exact same thing to someone that has, until this point tried to remain civil when civility was not expressed by others.

Christ almighty Barbara take your irony light and shove it up your own ironic ass.

[Katiebee]

I go to a party, I will wear party clothes. Mini-skirt, blouse unbuttoned two or three buttons. That doesn't make me a slut, a hooker, a whore, a prostitute, an easy lay.

It fucking means I'm out hunting. I'm not there for any goddamned erection to use.

I will say this once, snowm, and if it offends you, then perhaps you should very, very carefully examine your assumptions.

IF you can't keep it in your pants, and want to blame the woman for your lack of self-discipline and control, you have ONE HELL of a lot in common with the Taliban and other extremist fundamentalist islamic, jewish, and christen sects. And you have no sympathy from me for being someone who needs to be constantly supervised by an authoritarian regime to ensure your behavior.

[Lostforkate]

Katie, how can one be on your approved list of game? 

[Lois]

.

IF you can't keep it in your pants, and want to blame the woman for your lack of self-discipline and control, you have ONE HELL of a lot in common with the Taliban and other extremist fundamentalist islamic, jewish, and christen sects. And you have no sympathy from me for being someone who needs to be constantly supervised by an authoritarian regime to ensure your behavior.

Just another wiener out of control.

[MissBarbara]

You people are the most inflammatory dumb shits around.

common sense
n.
Sound judgment not based on specialized knowledge; native good judgment.
[Translation of Latin snsus commnis, common feelings of humanity.]

Pure defenition: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/common+sense not cherry picked and made up from 'multiple sources'

We were talking about common sense. It is common sense to say a woman probably shouldn't choose to dress like a hooker to a frat party. I would define dressing like a hooker as having on a skirt so short the goods are saying hi, and a top so low cut you can see a belly button.

Just like it is common sense for me not to slather my 8 month old with butter, salt and pepper and dangle her over a lion pit.

I am about done with you dumb fucks not reading what is actually written and making up meanings which are simply not there. Time and time again I have said there is no excuse for rape but you like to play your little attack with meme games and write just utter nonsense in response. Some of you have even exhibited intelligence in the past which leads to believe when you look down on your pedestal and pontificate on how mikki, m4m, or joan should post or act it is with true mindless disdain simply because they do not believe as you do. Anyone not carrying the same beliefs and goosestepping with whatever you say is ostracized and bullied.

Grow the fuck up and either shut up about others' behavior or get your head out of your ass and realize you do the exact same thing to someone that has, until this point tried to remain civil when civility was not expressed by others.

Christ almighty Barbara take your irony light and shove it up your own ironic ass.

I have to admit that this is one of the best rants I've read on this board in a long time.

So, kudos for that!

The problem, snowm, is that you didn't finish your thought. You wrote, "Girls walking into frat parties dressed like a hooker..." Well, what? You didn't define what "dressed like a hooker" means, nor -- more important -- did you say what would happen if a girl did, in fact, do that. If you meant something else, your should have said something else. Otherwise, as Toe indicated, the common end to that sentence is "...are asking for it."

Don't blame others for what you write, snowm. And if you don't like criticism of what you write, especially in 1408, then why are you posting here in the first place?

P.S. I've had my ass called many things over the years, but never "ironic." If that was intended as a compliment, then thank you!

[Gina Marie]

Grow the fuck up and either shut up about others' behavior or get your head out of your ass and realize you do the exact same thing to someone that has, until this point tried to remain civil when civility was not expressed by others.

Here is a civil question for you... How did it feel to you, personally, when you were ogled and had horrible and rude things said to your face, before you were pawed and then physically thrown to the ground where you had your clothing ripped off and got punched in the face before being penetrated against your will - all because of what you were wearing and where you were?

I ask you this, because I can describe my feelings in reaction to those events in GRAPHIC detail. I suppose I have to spell it out even further... when you have been a victim of rape, you tend to have a different opinion of it. So, when you can say "the exact same thing " then I might consider giving a fuck about your opinion of "common feelings of humanity"

[Katiebee]

I got out of it by luck, timing, and remembering what my dad taught me.

Or I would have been exactly in your shoes, Gia.

[Elizabeth]

WTF.
Snow, exactly when "did" you become the "Dressing Police?
It make absolutely NO difference what "I Choose" to wear going out anywhere.
I could be absolutely naked (no Janus) and even then when I say "NO" it means exactly that! Nobody, but Nobody gets dressed to be "Raped" or any other thing that your asserting (she had it coming to her). WTH are you thinking?
I suppose if the cross the street in the middle and not at the cross walk I "deserve" to be run over?
Clothes don't make a person anything, I could wear a suit of armor, and some guy could still try to "Rape" me. This isn't a female issue, it's a guy issue about respect and limits. Before you point fingers at females, try pointing your finger at the male species (and there caveman attitudes).

Love,
Liz 

[Gina Marie]

[Gina Marie]

[GEMINIGUY]

Snowm may have went about it all wrong but he is right about some stuff. I know men can be idiots, i know men can be animals, i know men can be worse.
But don't just lay all this blame on men. Women can be guilty of bad behavior and worse as well.
My point, don't make this about gender.